skydiverek 63 #1 September 24, 2016 Probably one of the best line-dump/bag-strip situations ever caught on video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C75zeWPgpQ8 "Premature opening in freefly, ZP PC and lazy bag. Maybe it's time to discuss about new solutions in skydiving, which skydivers are testing on themselves for their money. Tested for decades d-bag now is not trendy, but lazy bag in some situations could be quite dangerous. Bag should open only if lines are tensioned. We have now double-stowed campaign and lazy bags are totally opposite idea. Lazy bag like this!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #2 September 24, 2016 Nice find. I can't comment on the Lazy Bag in general, but there could be some "what did they expect" criticism here. If someone's bag is only closed by magnets, there will be some rate of acceleration of the bag that is too much for it to handle...and that jumper found it. Not at normal belly terminal, but only in a failure situation of a premature at sitfly speeds. Conventional elastics might hold in a canopy at a higher pilot chute acceleration or freefall speed, Tube Stoes might go even faster, and high speed gear might even use other methods like bungees. That bag was a little too lazy to protect the jumper at that speed... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #3 September 25, 2016 Yes, deployment closure methods are speed-specific. They also vary with the amount of "snatch force" the pilot-chute imposes on the "deployment bag." I remember Manley Butler telling me that "rubber bands are good up to 200 knots, but faster than that you need line-stow flutes." Maybe we need to take a closer look at the "no Velcro" line-stow pockets pioneered by BASE jumpers?????????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #4 September 25, 2016 I like the UPT bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDuijFUD-4U Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical_flyer 0 #5 September 25, 2016 What are line stow flutes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,354 #6 September 25, 2016 Hi flyer, QuoteWhat are line stow flutes? Aerodyne uses elastic ones: http://www.flyaerodyne.com/download/IconManual_PF_web.pdf Go to page 22 to see the flutes. I think Free Flight uses nylon ones: http://www.freeflightent.com/forms/PV_Pack_Inst_V.pdf Go to page 8 to see theirs. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pobrause 6 #7 September 25, 2016 another one, pull at 1:13 might be hard to see so pause the video and press . and , to navigate through the video frame by frame https://jointheteem.com/sky/skydiving/skydiving-sumo-wrestler/------------------------------------------------------- To absent friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 3 #8 September 25, 2016 Quote JerryBaumchenHi flyer, QuoteWhat are line stow flutes? Aerodyne uses elastic ones: http://www.flyaerodyne.com/download/IconManual_PF_web.pdf Go to page 22 to see the flutes. I think Free Flight uses nylon ones: http://www.freeflightent.com/forms/PV_Pack_Inst_V.pdf Go to page 8 to see theirs. Jerry Baumchen Nice set up. (Fly Aerodyne ).Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Di0 2 #9 September 26, 2016 As far as I know, PD, Sun Path and UPT all tested fully magnetic bags and decided it wasn't a good idea and they didn't offer good closing characteristics. That's more than enough for me, if it was a good idea, they'd be selling it and making money out of it, don't ya think? Semi-Stowless is good enough for me, it's a good compromise between a quicker packjob, less lines to stow, generally smooth opening, AND tested design approved by main manufacturers. I get payed to test stuff in my day job, I don't need to pay to test shit for my passion during my personal time. :)I'm standing on the edge With a vision in my head My body screams release me My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Iwan 47 #10 October 21, 2016 I can understand normal lazy bags, as kind of evolution from freebag of reserve canopy, of the pocket on BASE canopy. Not like something for making shorter time of packing but the way of avoiding linetwists. But totally stowless bags, sorry, what for? Fashion? In this particular situation that was the chain of some factors, not only the problem of the stowless bag. Really important was the speed, kind of pilotchute and the hackey. But at the end the CUSTOMER was testing for his own money, the modern product which is not original part of the rig. So that is something we should start do discuss. Why people are going to test on his organism new parts, quite expensive ones, not tested earlier. To have less problems with packing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gowlerk 2,190 #11 October 21, 2016 IwanI can understand normal lazy bags, as kind of evolution from freebag of reserve canopy, of the pocket on BASE canopy. Not like something for making shorter time of packing but the way of avoiding linetwists. But totally stowless bags, sorry, what for? Fashion? In this particular situation that was the chain of some factors, not only the problem of the stowless bag. Really important was the speed, kind of pilotchute and the hackey. But at the end the CUSTOMER was testing for his own money, the modern product which is not original part of the rig. So that is something we should start do discuss. Why people are going to test on his organism new parts, quite expensive ones, not tested earlier. To have less problems with packing? Because all the cool kids have stowless bags. They are magical and solve all problems with off heading openings. Just ask anyone who owns one. (In other words they are the current fashion for no good reason at all)Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Di0 2 #9 September 26, 2016 As far as I know, PD, Sun Path and UPT all tested fully magnetic bags and decided it wasn't a good idea and they didn't offer good closing characteristics. That's more than enough for me, if it was a good idea, they'd be selling it and making money out of it, don't ya think? Semi-Stowless is good enough for me, it's a good compromise between a quicker packjob, less lines to stow, generally smooth opening, AND tested design approved by main manufacturers. I get payed to test stuff in my day job, I don't need to pay to test shit for my passion during my personal time. :)I'm standing on the edge With a vision in my head My body screams release me My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwan 47 #10 October 21, 2016 I can understand normal lazy bags, as kind of evolution from freebag of reserve canopy, of the pocket on BASE canopy. Not like something for making shorter time of packing but the way of avoiding linetwists. But totally stowless bags, sorry, what for? Fashion? In this particular situation that was the chain of some factors, not only the problem of the stowless bag. Really important was the speed, kind of pilotchute and the hackey. But at the end the CUSTOMER was testing for his own money, the modern product which is not original part of the rig. So that is something we should start do discuss. Why people are going to test on his organism new parts, quite expensive ones, not tested earlier. To have less problems with packing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,190 #11 October 21, 2016 IwanI can understand normal lazy bags, as kind of evolution from freebag of reserve canopy, of the pocket on BASE canopy. Not like something for making shorter time of packing but the way of avoiding linetwists. But totally stowless bags, sorry, what for? Fashion? In this particular situation that was the chain of some factors, not only the problem of the stowless bag. Really important was the speed, kind of pilotchute and the hackey. But at the end the CUSTOMER was testing for his own money, the modern product which is not original part of the rig. So that is something we should start do discuss. Why people are going to test on his organism new parts, quite expensive ones, not tested earlier. To have less problems with packing? Because all the cool kids have stowless bags. They are magical and solve all problems with off heading openings. Just ask anyone who owns one. (In other words they are the current fashion for no good reason at all)Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
