funks 1 #126 June 9, 2005 QuoteQuote QuoteIt's every American's right to assemble and protest. So you think if I gathered a million white people in one location for the sole purpose of promoting WHITE unity and WHITE power that would go over well and be allowed to take place? I doubt it. QuoteThe problem lies with this large pool of fat old white losers who keep getting rehired, despite years of evidence that they can't win. What does color have to do with it? QuoteLot of owners seem prone to pick the safe medicre guy with years of experience, rather than a young up and comer who may flame out badly. Is that not their right as an owner? And isnt hiring people with experience common practice in big business? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KATO33 0 #127 June 9, 2005 QuoteJanice Rogers Brown just got confirmed yesterday to the federal court. She has indicated that a key problem with AA is that there is a perception that it gets unqualified people ahead. She is personally against it Who cares about the perception as long as the oppurtunity is there. General question for the board: If African Americans had not fought for their right to vote. Would "America" have given it freely? Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eflynn 0 #128 June 9, 2005 "I can see that, but I think that as time goes forward, unless people hold a grudge, differences become less important, or even dissapear." On a long enough time line this might be the case. But I also feel the "grudge" notion is only a part of it. "When was the last time Kirk beat a whole damn Island like my boy Lee did?...I'll give it up to Kirk for nailing the green chick, but we are talking about fighting, not laying the pipe" Okay. When was the last time Bruce out thought a computer and made it blow up? He also defeated an evil version of himself. I have every episode on dvd. "I don't think they are discriminating against black coaches either...But its OK to make people interview blacks for jobs they are in the minority...But why not make people interview whites in the same situation?" I would love to believe that was the case but I don't. I don't think the owners are having meeting saying stuff like "Don't hire the Black guy." But I do think people's preconceived notions, no matter how subtle they are, come into play. Remember last season when Parcelles (sp?) made the comment about "Jap plays" referring to trick plays? I don't think he meant any harm by it but it was still a terrible thing to say. As far as interviewing Whites in the same situations I really don't have a problem with it. "Oh I do hear you, understand your position, learn from this, and agree we willnever truely understand each other, but I hope we get closer by dialog like this..........................But Lee would stomp Kirk like a grape." Go see "Crash" if you haven't yet. Kirk is the hardest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funks 1 #129 June 9, 2005 Quote*** If African Americans had not fought for their right to vote. Would "America" have given it freely? Nobody knows. The point being made here is that African Americans dont have anything to fight for today (as far as I am concerned). They have ALL the same rights that any other person has. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funks 1 #130 June 9, 2005 Please try and use the quote button. Sometimes it is impossible to respond to you because its not possible to differentiate your statements from the ones you are responding too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eflynn 0 #131 June 9, 2005 I asked you to name two other people who preach about differences. You named me. Then you say I don't preach. It doesn't make any sense... as long as you know I know. "Does it seem to you that American blacks are paranoid and seem to find (and complain about) racism even when none exists" Is your question loaded? From all the "reading between my lines" you should be able to conclude I don't feel that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eflynn 0 #132 June 9, 2005 I agree that that's the perception. It's a difficult issue to address no matter how you view it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #133 June 9, 2005 QuoteWho cares about the perception as long as the oppurtunity is there. Apparently, plenty of people do. There is a perception that the black man and woman cannot get ahead, right? That they are held down by "The Man." That without programs or assistance, effort is futile, right? That racism will prevent any opportunity or access. I hate to break it to you, but these perceptions amongst these groups is what helps to keep them doubt. The perceptions are indeed cultural to a large segment of the population. It prevents people from trying to get out of it. This is what results in Clarence Thomas being called an "Oreo" or "Uncle Tom." He's not a real black man. A real black man couldn't have gotten there. Therefore he is a sellout, and cannot be counted as an example. The perception is that the system is out to get them. The perception is that they are pulled over because they are black, and not because they have expired registration. The perception is that basketball and rap is the only way out of the projects, and school is for sellouts. The perception is that they gotta have the bling and the rims to "keep it real." Like it or not, perceptions matter. Not to the person who accomplished much, but to those people who perceive that they have no chance, anyway. The perception of group identity being more important that individual accomplishment keeps people down. Whole populations. Anything that adds to these perceptions is, IMO, evil, for they become self-fulfilling prophesies. QuoteGeneral question for the board: If African Americans had not fought for their right to vote. Would "America" have given it freely? Nope. In fact, it took white folks fighting for the rights of the blacks to secure it. America did not give this freely. The failure to give these rights is a stain on our history matched only by the luster of those who fought valiantly against this stain - and won. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #134 June 9, 2005 QuoteOn a long enough time line this might be the case. But I also feel the "grudge" notion is only a part of it. I agree, when whites quit making choices based on color. Which I think it is getting pretty close as assholes die. And as blacks quit thinking people are out to get them, and when they stop demanding special treatment...Then equality will be there. QuoteOkay. When was the last time Bruce out thought a computer and made it blow up? He also defeated an evil version of himself. I have every episode on dvd. Hey stud, I never said Bruce was *Smarter*, I said he could kick James Tiberius Kirk's fanny in a fight. Kirk graduated from Starfleet Academy, he was the Captain of a Constitution class vessel in charge of 420 people (The pilot had him in charge of only 210, which BTW was the second pilot, the first had Chris Pike (the second Capt of NCC1701, Robert April had it first ..But he only had 210 on board as well.)...He had better be smarter. Besides if you saw the movie "Dragon" with Jason Scott Lee playing Lee, Bruce kicked even deaths ass. Kicking deaths ass beats outwitting some computer that looks like a hoover vacuum any day in my book. QuoteGo see "Crash" if you haven't yet. Kirk is the hardest Dude, I'm working fulltime, going to school fulltime, trying to coach and do AFF AND on a team this year...I'll go see it when I can, it looks interesting. As for Kirk...Remember he got killed by a freaking cloud...A CLOUD...sheesh."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KATO33 0 #135 June 9, 2005 QuoteThis is what results in Clarence Thomas being called an "Oreo" or "Uncle Tom." He's not a real black man. A real black man couldn't have gotten there. Therefore he is a sellout, and cannot be counted as an example. Clarence isn't called a sell out because of his accomplishments. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #136 June 9, 2005 Then why is he called a "sell-out?" The trap is being set with this question My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KATO33 0 #137 June 9, 2005 QuoteThen why is he called a "sell-out?" His views and policies perhaps. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eflynn 0 #138 June 9, 2005 He's definitely a sellout. A smart and accomplished man, but definitely a sellout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #139 June 9, 2005 QuoteA smart and accomplished man, but definitely a sellout Why do you call him a sell out?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #140 June 9, 2005 Again, why is he a sell-out. By that I mean what is he selling out? Again, the trap is being set My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eflynn 0 #141 June 9, 2005 My mother made me read a paper he'd written when I was 16 on race and class. Even then I felt like he showed a veiled disdain for anything that reminded him he was Black. He referred to what appeared to be poor Blacks as "porch monkeys" and "jigaboos" all the while talking about the "political lynching" he was being subjected to during the Anita Hill case. If I hadn't know any better I would have thought it was written by Strom Thurmond. There's a difference between wanting someone to look at you as a person as opposed to wanting someone to not see you're Black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eflynn 0 #142 June 9, 2005 Selling out views, notions, beliefs that the masses feel are inherent to that particular group. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KATO33 0 #143 June 9, 2005 QuoteAgain, why is he a sell-out. By that I mean what is he selling out? The point I was trying to make is: He's not considered a sellout because of his accomplishments but because of his views or policies. Personally I don't know if he's a sell out or not I do not know him. I had a problem with the statement that he is considered a sell out because of his success. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #144 June 9, 2005 QuoteAs for Kirk...Remember he got killed by a freaking cloud...A CLOUD...sheesh. Cloud, huh? He died from a fall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,068 #145 June 9, 2005 >He died from a fall. Didn't he die like 12 times? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #146 June 9, 2005 QuoteThere's a difference between wanting someone to look at you as a person as opposed to wanting someone to not see you're Black. Now, I didn't read that paper, but whites call poor whites "trailer trash"...Do you think that makes them trying to hide they are white? And I remember the Anita hill bit...It was very close to a political Lynching. He thought he was being messed with since he was Black.....I tend to agree. I think the analogy is close. So, if you don't take pride in being black, you are a sell out?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #147 June 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteLot of owners seem prone to pick the safe medicre guy with years of experience, rather than a young up and comer who may flame out badly. Is that not their right as an owner? And isnt hiring people with experience common practice in big business? Sure, and it's my right as a consumer of the NFL to vote with my pocket. Don't know about you, but I'm against hiring of warmed over has beens. Dennis Ericksen's short stint with the 49ers is a good example. Joe Gibbs after decades of retirement?! In business, it's just as silly to hire guys like Chainsaw Al with this notion that 'this time he'll actually get it done.' Jesse Jackson strikes me as far more about self promotion than something greater, but good for him on this cause. He wanted something and he made it happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funks 1 #148 June 9, 2005 QuoteMy mother made me read a paper he'd written when I was 16 on race and class. Even then I felt like he showed a veiled disdain for anything that reminded him he was Black. He referred to what appeared to be poor Blacks as "porch monkeys" and "jigaboos" all the while talking about the "political lynching" he was being subjected to during the Anita Hill case. If I hadn't know any better I would have thought it was written by Strom Thurmond. There's a difference between wanting someone to look at you as a person as opposed to wanting someone to not see you're Black. I think he was referring to what we consider "white trash". Not just necessarily someone who is poor, but someone who takes no pride in themselves and is generally lower class. I do not take pride in the so called "white trash" of our community, perhaps he was expressing his disdain for what he views as the equivelant of the "white trash" in the black community. I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #149 June 9, 2005 I don't know if I'd use the word sell out for Thomas, but he can't be the intellectual midget he comes off as, can he? Sometimes he really strains to defend his vote, esp when even Scalia and Renquist defect and he is the minority of an 8-1 decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funks 1 #150 June 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote ***Jesse Jackson strikes me as far more about self promotion than something greater, but good for him on this cause. He wanted something and he made it happen. So you are basically saying that racism is acceptable as long as it is disguised or perceived as doing something positive for a specific race? 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KATO33 0 #127 June 9, 2005 QuoteJanice Rogers Brown just got confirmed yesterday to the federal court. She has indicated that a key problem with AA is that there is a perception that it gets unqualified people ahead. She is personally against it Who cares about the perception as long as the oppurtunity is there. General question for the board: If African Americans had not fought for their right to vote. Would "America" have given it freely? Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eflynn 0 #128 June 9, 2005 "I can see that, but I think that as time goes forward, unless people hold a grudge, differences become less important, or even dissapear." On a long enough time line this might be the case. But I also feel the "grudge" notion is only a part of it. "When was the last time Kirk beat a whole damn Island like my boy Lee did?...I'll give it up to Kirk for nailing the green chick, but we are talking about fighting, not laying the pipe" Okay. When was the last time Bruce out thought a computer and made it blow up? He also defeated an evil version of himself. I have every episode on dvd. "I don't think they are discriminating against black coaches either...But its OK to make people interview blacks for jobs they are in the minority...But why not make people interview whites in the same situation?" I would love to believe that was the case but I don't. I don't think the owners are having meeting saying stuff like "Don't hire the Black guy." But I do think people's preconceived notions, no matter how subtle they are, come into play. Remember last season when Parcelles (sp?) made the comment about "Jap plays" referring to trick plays? I don't think he meant any harm by it but it was still a terrible thing to say. As far as interviewing Whites in the same situations I really don't have a problem with it. "Oh I do hear you, understand your position, learn from this, and agree we willnever truely understand each other, but I hope we get closer by dialog like this..........................But Lee would stomp Kirk like a grape." Go see "Crash" if you haven't yet. Kirk is the hardest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #129 June 9, 2005 Quote*** If African Americans had not fought for their right to vote. Would "America" have given it freely? Nobody knows. The point being made here is that African Americans dont have anything to fight for today (as far as I am concerned). They have ALL the same rights that any other person has. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #130 June 9, 2005 Please try and use the quote button. Sometimes it is impossible to respond to you because its not possible to differentiate your statements from the ones you are responding too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eflynn 0 #131 June 9, 2005 I asked you to name two other people who preach about differences. You named me. Then you say I don't preach. It doesn't make any sense... as long as you know I know. "Does it seem to you that American blacks are paranoid and seem to find (and complain about) racism even when none exists" Is your question loaded? From all the "reading between my lines" you should be able to conclude I don't feel that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eflynn 0 #132 June 9, 2005 I agree that that's the perception. It's a difficult issue to address no matter how you view it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #133 June 9, 2005 QuoteWho cares about the perception as long as the oppurtunity is there. Apparently, plenty of people do. There is a perception that the black man and woman cannot get ahead, right? That they are held down by "The Man." That without programs or assistance, effort is futile, right? That racism will prevent any opportunity or access. I hate to break it to you, but these perceptions amongst these groups is what helps to keep them doubt. The perceptions are indeed cultural to a large segment of the population. It prevents people from trying to get out of it. This is what results in Clarence Thomas being called an "Oreo" or "Uncle Tom." He's not a real black man. A real black man couldn't have gotten there. Therefore he is a sellout, and cannot be counted as an example. The perception is that the system is out to get them. The perception is that they are pulled over because they are black, and not because they have expired registration. The perception is that basketball and rap is the only way out of the projects, and school is for sellouts. The perception is that they gotta have the bling and the rims to "keep it real." Like it or not, perceptions matter. Not to the person who accomplished much, but to those people who perceive that they have no chance, anyway. The perception of group identity being more important that individual accomplishment keeps people down. Whole populations. Anything that adds to these perceptions is, IMO, evil, for they become self-fulfilling prophesies. QuoteGeneral question for the board: If African Americans had not fought for their right to vote. Would "America" have given it freely? Nope. In fact, it took white folks fighting for the rights of the blacks to secure it. America did not give this freely. The failure to give these rights is a stain on our history matched only by the luster of those who fought valiantly against this stain - and won. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #134 June 9, 2005 QuoteOn a long enough time line this might be the case. But I also feel the "grudge" notion is only a part of it. I agree, when whites quit making choices based on color. Which I think it is getting pretty close as assholes die. And as blacks quit thinking people are out to get them, and when they stop demanding special treatment...Then equality will be there. QuoteOkay. When was the last time Bruce out thought a computer and made it blow up? He also defeated an evil version of himself. I have every episode on dvd. Hey stud, I never said Bruce was *Smarter*, I said he could kick James Tiberius Kirk's fanny in a fight. Kirk graduated from Starfleet Academy, he was the Captain of a Constitution class vessel in charge of 420 people (The pilot had him in charge of only 210, which BTW was the second pilot, the first had Chris Pike (the second Capt of NCC1701, Robert April had it first ..But he only had 210 on board as well.)...He had better be smarter. Besides if you saw the movie "Dragon" with Jason Scott Lee playing Lee, Bruce kicked even deaths ass. Kicking deaths ass beats outwitting some computer that looks like a hoover vacuum any day in my book. QuoteGo see "Crash" if you haven't yet. Kirk is the hardest Dude, I'm working fulltime, going to school fulltime, trying to coach and do AFF AND on a team this year...I'll go see it when I can, it looks interesting. As for Kirk...Remember he got killed by a freaking cloud...A CLOUD...sheesh."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KATO33 0 #135 June 9, 2005 QuoteThis is what results in Clarence Thomas being called an "Oreo" or "Uncle Tom." He's not a real black man. A real black man couldn't have gotten there. Therefore he is a sellout, and cannot be counted as an example. Clarence isn't called a sell out because of his accomplishments. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #136 June 9, 2005 Then why is he called a "sell-out?" The trap is being set with this question My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KATO33 0 #137 June 9, 2005 QuoteThen why is he called a "sell-out?" His views and policies perhaps. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eflynn 0 #138 June 9, 2005 He's definitely a sellout. A smart and accomplished man, but definitely a sellout. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #139 June 9, 2005 QuoteA smart and accomplished man, but definitely a sellout Why do you call him a sell out?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #140 June 9, 2005 Again, why is he a sell-out. By that I mean what is he selling out? Again, the trap is being set My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eflynn 0 #141 June 9, 2005 My mother made me read a paper he'd written when I was 16 on race and class. Even then I felt like he showed a veiled disdain for anything that reminded him he was Black. He referred to what appeared to be poor Blacks as "porch monkeys" and "jigaboos" all the while talking about the "political lynching" he was being subjected to during the Anita Hill case. If I hadn't know any better I would have thought it was written by Strom Thurmond. There's a difference between wanting someone to look at you as a person as opposed to wanting someone to not see you're Black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eflynn 0 #142 June 9, 2005 Selling out views, notions, beliefs that the masses feel are inherent to that particular group. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KATO33 0 #143 June 9, 2005 QuoteAgain, why is he a sell-out. By that I mean what is he selling out? The point I was trying to make is: He's not considered a sellout because of his accomplishments but because of his views or policies. Personally I don't know if he's a sell out or not I do not know him. I had a problem with the statement that he is considered a sell out because of his success. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #144 June 9, 2005 QuoteAs for Kirk...Remember he got killed by a freaking cloud...A CLOUD...sheesh. Cloud, huh? He died from a fall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,068 #145 June 9, 2005 >He died from a fall. Didn't he die like 12 times? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #146 June 9, 2005 QuoteThere's a difference between wanting someone to look at you as a person as opposed to wanting someone to not see you're Black. Now, I didn't read that paper, but whites call poor whites "trailer trash"...Do you think that makes them trying to hide they are white? And I remember the Anita hill bit...It was very close to a political Lynching. He thought he was being messed with since he was Black.....I tend to agree. I think the analogy is close. So, if you don't take pride in being black, you are a sell out?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #147 June 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteLot of owners seem prone to pick the safe medicre guy with years of experience, rather than a young up and comer who may flame out badly. Is that not their right as an owner? And isnt hiring people with experience common practice in big business? Sure, and it's my right as a consumer of the NFL to vote with my pocket. Don't know about you, but I'm against hiring of warmed over has beens. Dennis Ericksen's short stint with the 49ers is a good example. Joe Gibbs after decades of retirement?! In business, it's just as silly to hire guys like Chainsaw Al with this notion that 'this time he'll actually get it done.' Jesse Jackson strikes me as far more about self promotion than something greater, but good for him on this cause. He wanted something and he made it happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #148 June 9, 2005 QuoteMy mother made me read a paper he'd written when I was 16 on race and class. Even then I felt like he showed a veiled disdain for anything that reminded him he was Black. He referred to what appeared to be poor Blacks as "porch monkeys" and "jigaboos" all the while talking about the "political lynching" he was being subjected to during the Anita Hill case. If I hadn't know any better I would have thought it was written by Strom Thurmond. There's a difference between wanting someone to look at you as a person as opposed to wanting someone to not see you're Black. I think he was referring to what we consider "white trash". Not just necessarily someone who is poor, but someone who takes no pride in themselves and is generally lower class. I do not take pride in the so called "white trash" of our community, perhaps he was expressing his disdain for what he views as the equivelant of the "white trash" in the black community. I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #149 June 9, 2005 I don't know if I'd use the word sell out for Thomas, but he can't be the intellectual midget he comes off as, can he? Sometimes he really strains to defend his vote, esp when even Scalia and Renquist defect and he is the minority of an 8-1 decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #150 June 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote ***Jesse Jackson strikes me as far more about self promotion than something greater, but good for him on this cause. He wanted something and he made it happen. So you are basically saying that racism is acceptable as long as it is disguised or perceived as doing something positive for a specific race? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next Page 6 of 16 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
