The origin of Bush's plan to remove Saddam

[Ron 10]

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exactly, like facts needed to invade a country......

Wow, you still flapping your gums?

Bring something to the table next time....The evidence to invade was good enough for the President, The UN and Congress.

You have nothing but emotions and hot air.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Not to mention, of course, that the resolution was to authorize the President's use of force. Not to go to war straight away. There's a big difference.

Yes, but only a fool would give someone permission to do something they really do not want done.

If they didn't want to give him permission, the time say that was right then, not after the fact. The knew what they were doing, but did it in a way that they could appear patriotic and still come back later and say they didn't *really* mean it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,027]

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The President's decision so we stand by it? As a voter, I don't think that's enough to go to war without more reasons. My right, as a voter. I don't like that judgement, and that's also my right.

No, but we are in now so there is not much else to do.

The UN, and both the House and Senate thought there was enough evidence to go....I am betting that they had more access to information than you or I. If you think they were wrong..Punish them. Vote them out at the first chance you get. If you can find evidence of illegal activities, press charges.

So far no one has shown any proof of illegal activities, but they claim it all the time.

Ummm, who supplied the intel used by the House, Senate and UN? Could it have come from agencies whose heads reported to George W. Bush? Anyone? Anyone?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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Ummm, who supplied the intel used by the House, Senate and UN? Could it have come from agencies whose heads reported to George W. Bush? Anyone? Anyone?

Again, if you have proof of illegal activities...please present it.

Nothing should make you happier than trying to get him Impeached...Proceed with my blessing.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The evidence to invade was good enough for the President, The UN and Congress.

of course it was, that is what it was created for.

Thankfully my countrymen did not have to die for your presidents desires and hunger for power.

[kallend 2,027]

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Ummm, who supplied the intel used by the House, Senate and UN? Could it have come from agencies whose heads reported to George W. Bush? Anyone? Anyone?

Again, if you have proof of illegal activities...please present it.

Nothing should make you happier than trying to get him Impeached...Proceed with my blessing.

Unfortunately lying by politicians is not illegal unless done under oath. The 2003 SOTU address does not qualify as illegal despite being packed full of lies and misdirections.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zenister 0]

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The President's decision so we stand by it? As a voter, I don't think that's enough to go to war without more reasons. My right, as a voter. I don't like that judgement, and that's also my right.

No, but we are in now so there is not much else to do.

which is about the only thing we agree on here.. we broke the eggs, all on our own... now we've got to eat them no matter how rancid they become...

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So far no one has shown any proof of illegal activities, but they claim it all the time.

of course not, what you STILL fail to grasp is everyone knows that manipulating data and spinning public opinion to back your political objectives is perfectly legal

it is just pretty immoral as well, when it costs the lives of our military at no risk to your own..... all for little to no real gains to national security, and a heavy cost both in lives and economic stability... there MAY be some good long term effects, but those could have just as easily been accomplished on a longer, less dramatic timeline without the cost in American lives...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[kelpdiver 2]

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of course not, what you STILL fail to grasp is everyone knows that manipulating data and spinning public opinion to back your political objectives is perfectly legal

Given that we continue to see (even in this thread) talks of impeachment, clearly not everyone knows this.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Gee. I thought we declared war on terrorism. Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. To fight a war, you need a battlefield. Iraq seems as good a place as any. We are not battling Saddams Army anymore, we are battling "insurgents" whose leader is Zarqawi and Bin Laden. They, and their organizations are terrorists. Seems to me the only thing Bush forgot to do is to get Congress to officially declare war on Al Qaeda.

[freethefly 6]

Perhaps Bush should have used the latter as the basis for invasion, but people make mistakes. Either way, we're helping people by doing what we're doing. WMD's may have been "bad intel," but it is fact that we have saved lives and continue to save lives over there. So, where's the problem?

[Zenister 0]

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you don't care about the Iraqi people simply because it doesn't directly benefit you. Well, how bout watching a masked man slice a little girl's head off with a machete, just because he could? Should I and my friends not stop that man, should America stand by as this kind of shit happens repeatedly to innocent civilians?

you know i was going to let your ignorant rant slide till i caught this...
you really should get out more.. see the rest of the world when your not carrying a firearm and overwhelming force and understand that America often stands by while “this kind of shit happens"... go visit a few more continents and get off the tourist paths.. it just might open you eyes to what really happens everyday.

the US wouldnt be in Iraq AT ALL, if there were not potential long term strategic benefit for us by being there..... there are far worse dictators than Saddam, and people suffering in worse conditions than Iraq RIGHT NOW, that will never be addressed militarily by Bush (or any American administration for that matter) because there IS NO STRATEGIC/ECONOMIC BENIFET TO DO SO.. do your research, look to see what the administration expects to gain from a 'democratic Iraq" and then look at the date they made that original statement of intent....

if you believe Bush started this war "to help all those who could not help themselves", or that he is risking American lives to “help free the Iraqi people” well, you might want to be wary about your next urine analysis, because the hallucinogens will show up...

Bush has obvious political and strategic objectives he wants to accomplish, and while I DO believe he has America’s long term interests at heart, I completely disagree with his methods.. … All of which has very little to do with ‘protecting innocent civilians’, they are simply an after thought, a pleasant side outcome, and good political propaganda to wave around when he is questioned about his REAL motivations for his rush to invade…

ps.. you might want to reread your oath, and then join the UN or the Peace Corp (or better yet, your local police force/fire department) if you think your job is to “protect those who cannot protect themselves”, or to “protect the helpless”, because YOU ARE doing what you are doing, because some “stupid politician” (your words btw) told you to…as is every single member of the armed service…like it or not, you are the sword wielded by the hand of the politicians….

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Astro 0]

ViperPilot: Follow your orders, locate the enemy, and exterminate him without hesitation.

Otherwise your family and friends may be tasked with the same (or worse).

Anybody who whines to the contrary must think they're Martin Sheen, feeling all left-wing sexy ya know

Nobody said it would be easy, but the middle-American prays for you every Sunday and _that_ is who will preserve our way of life.

[Ron 10]

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of course it was, that is what it was created for.

Got proof? or are you just lying?

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Thankfully my countrymen did not have to die for your presidents desires and hunger for power.

Oh look guys!!! The required anti US slam.

Bring proof, or quit lying.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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of course not, what you STILL fail to grasp is everyone knows that manipulating data and spinning public opinion to back your political objectives is perfectly legal

And what you have failed to do time after time is prove any of this.

You keep claiming it as fact but have nothing to back those claims up.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Got proof?

Sure, I got this here secret informant, who knows all about the situation, but I can't tell you who he is. But, I can assure you that his information is top notch. He says that Bush lied, so it has to be true....

Something similar to that was enough to kill a couple of thousand, should be enough to impeach a president, don't you think?

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Oh look guys!!! The required anti US slam.

Actually it was a slam of your president, not all your countrymen. See, I refered to your president's hunger for power....I know, it is all very difficult...

[Ron 10]

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Sure, I got this here secret informant, who knows all about the situation, but I can't tell you who he is. But, I can assure you that his information is top notch. He says that Bush lied, so it has to be true....

Something similar to that was enough to kill a couple of thousand, should be enough to impeach a president, don't you think?

Sure, go ahead and send it to Congress see if they think it is a s good as they did Bush's info.

You see they voted in favor.

Go ahead send the intel.

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Actually it was a slam of your president, not all your countrymen

I said "Anti US" not anti American...I know its hard for you to see simple things. See the President is elected by the people...Oh never mind, I don't want to confuse you with facts.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I said "Anti US" not anti American...I know its hard for you to see simple things. See the President is elected by the people...Oh never mind, I don't want to confuse you with facts.

Your president is not directly elected by the people....you may want to look up your facts first.....

Never mind, wouldn't want to confuse you with facts about your own country.....

[kallend 2,027]

You know, Ron, no-one posting on this forum, including you, has proof in a legal sense of anything very much outside of their own lives.

Sometimes, when a lot of smoke goes up, there actually ARE fires.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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You know, Ron, no-one posting on this forum, including you, has proof in a legal sense of anything very much outside of their own lives.

Well then maybe they should not claim to have that proof?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[EricTheRed 0]

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Gee. I thought we declared war on terrorism. Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. To fight a war, you need a battlefield. Iraq seems as good a place as any.

Fine. But we were already in Afganistan, fighting a war against terrorism. Seems that one still isn't finished yet.

I fully supported kicking the shit out of the Taliban, and OBL (Where is he BTW?) but happen to think that we picked the wrong fight in Iraq. We should have finished the job in Afganistan, eliminated the warlords and the opium production and opened a Wal-Mart in Karachi.

Could have fought the war in that field of rocks just as easily and we hdidn't need to make anything up to justify that war.

illegible usually

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Well then maybe they should not claim to have that proof?

Some of us just don't need third degree burns as proof that there was a fire...

[Ron 10]

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Some of us just don't need third degree burns as proof that there was a fire...

You keep saying stuff like that, but you never follow through with anything.

Typical, you have opinions based on nothing as usual.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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You keep saying stuff like that, but you never follow through with anything.

That's kind of funny coming from you....

Why don't you enlighten me with your facts of how your president is elected..... LOL

[rehmwa 2]

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Why don't you enlighten me with your facts of how president is elected..... LOL

First you need a clothespin, some trail mix, two pigs, a wet cat, a ten foot pole, and a polling station....

then, the rest is just a bunch of administrative details

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 10]

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Why don't you enlighten me with your facts of how your president is elected..... LOL

Sure, but why bother? You will just claim its a ploy from the right to keep the downtrodden voiceless.

I am sure I know more about the US processes than you....But don't let facts stop you from acting like an expert on everything like normal.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334