When is smoking in a home with children going to become illegal?

[Vallerina 2]

Quote

We know second hand smoke is worse than smoking itself

As others have said, no, it's not. Even a smoker still breathes the "second hand smoke" air.

However, second hand smoke is bad for people. That's why my grandfather passed away 6 months ago.

Many things are also bad for you, though. How about the parents who feed their kids Happy Meals every night? I feel bad for the kids that have to grow up in an environment like that. Yes, it is irresponsible for parents to do that. I'm not really sure if you can outlaw it, though.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Casurf1978 0]

I'm more concerned about the parents that feed their kids junk food on a regular basis and dont teach them healthy eating habits. My neighbor has two kids, the older one is obese, the second one is getting there. I'm not talking overwieght, obese as in 250lbs plus on a 16 yo. IMHO that is far worse than lighting up and smoking a cig.

[n23x 0]

Quote

I can, we all can pollute the air in the effort to get to work; we shouldn't pollute other people's personal space with carcinogens so we can perpetuate our compulsions.

Brilliant reasoning. If it helps you sleep at night so be it. We all already do it, we can't stop now.

So you need transportation to keep the world spinning? Ever ride a bus? Carpool? Ride a bike? Don't push your car polluting habits on me and the kids.

The point of all of this is:

It is asinine to decide that one form of polluting the air isn't ok, and yet another form which no doubt dumps a far greater amount of pullutants in the air, is ok, just because it keeps the world spinning and YOU decide that it is not nearly as consequential as the first, because you think the first is so localized.

As mentioned before, there's a lot of other shit that needs to be fixed before we start crying about this. And once again I will re-iterate that the parents PROBABLY shouldn't smoke around their kids, and smoking outside is FINE. If they are blowing smoke in their kids face, that's a different story. If they are putting their cigarettes out on their kids, that's a different story.

Finally, lets up the conversation with one more thing that I am not a smoker, and have never smoked.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I'm more concerned about the parents that feed their kids junk food on a regular basis and dont teach them healthy eating habits.

I don't see why you have to choose. Parents can fail on both counts. Here, both bad behaviors are demonstrated and both are health related. Poor eating affects the kids eventually, the smoking teaches discourtesy and affects bystanders (in a more insidious way than just having a sweating big person next to you on the airplane or at the movie - man am I gonna get it for that glib comment.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[n23x 0]

Quote

the smoking teaches discourtesy and affects bystanders (in a more insidious way than just having a sweating big person next to you on the airplane or at the movie - man am I gonna get it for that glib comment.)

While I agree that it is discourteous to decide to light up when you are packed around people, I disagree that it is so terrible to just go outside and smoke.

Seeing as a majority of the places that people were able to go to to have a smoke (bars, restaurants, etc) are closing doors to smokers, I don't think it's all to cry about if they are smoking in their back yard, or their car or for that matter, even on the street.

Once again, to say one form of air pollutant is acceptable, and one is unacceptable, based on the arguement that "everybody does it, and the world NEEDS it" is a little bit crazy.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[billvon 2,989]

>It is asinine to decide that one form of polluting the air isn't ok,
>and yet another form which no doubt dumps a far greater amount
>of pullutants in the air, is ok . . .

It's not asinine at all. Which would you rather your kids be exposed to - a few milligrams of plutonium dust, or a kilogram of CO2? (Hint - one will kill them within six months, and they will barely notice the other.)

Some things are more dangerous than other things. It is smart to realize that and plan accordingly.

[airtwardo 7]

Which would you rather your kids be exposed

***

Depends on which of my kids you mean!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[n23x 0]

Quote

Depends on which of my kids you mean!

I can appreciate that response.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

My gut reaction? Not soon enough. This is coming from personal experience. I had 2-3 lung infections a year (one year 5) growing up in a house with one - two smokers in it. I averaged missing 20 days of school each year. It got so bad that they tested me for Cystic Fibrosis (was a lot of fun being told at 13 that I may not live past 25 if I had it). It took a year or two, but after I moved out things got ALOT better. Due to smoking I lost a lot of healthy days and now have no idea how much long term damage was done to my lungs during those years. I had so many X-rays done on my lungs that they had to limit them on a yearly basis due to concerns of too much radiation. Any time a smoker starts in on THEIR rights I go to town on those selfish bastards.

My political and social beliefs, however, would have me vote NO against making it illegal. I do not want the gov't raising our children.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

My gut reaction? Not soon enough. This is coming from personal experience. I had 2-3 lung infections a year (one year 5) growing up in a house with one - two smokers in it. I averaged missing 20 days of school each year. It got so bad that they tested me for Cystic Fibrosis (was a lot of fun being told at 13 that I may not live past 25 if I had it). It took a year or two, but after I moved out things got ALOT better. Due to smoking I lost a lot of healthy days and now have no idea how much long term damage was done to my lungs during those years. I had so many X-rays done on my lungs that they had to limit them on a yearly basis due to concerns of too much radiation. Any time a smoker starts in on THEIR rights I go to town on those selfish bastards.

My political and social beliefs, however, would have me vote NO against making it illegal. I do not want the gov't raising our children.

that's exactly my position. asthma and migraines even today so it's very personal (the lungs are permanently damaged even today away from the old man's smoke for 25 years) - so I'm glib about it. I very much appreciate smokers that make 'real' effort to keep it to themselves. it's hard to do. Most efforts are pretty lame though. Maybe someday there will be a way to meet that addiction in a less intrusive way - pills, shots, fake cigarettes that provide a powder instead of smoke - something.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

that's exactly my position. asthma and migraines even today so it's very personal (the lungs are permanently damaged even today away from the old man's smoke for 25 years)

Same here, migraines, weakened lung defenses against an infection, reduced lung capacity, sinus issues, allergies, etc.

I am all for pushing smokers out of all public places and I narc on someone that breaks those rules. If you think about it, from 1-8 grades I missed over 150 school days - that is an ENTIRE year of school!! I really want to hear what a smoker has to say in argument of that?

My old man - the biggest smoker in the house? Haven't talked to him in over 4 years now. It's just one of many issues that forced me to break off talking to them. He would smoke two packs A NIGHT in our house. That was more important than his son's health. And when I was at home, passing out from coughing spasms or from pneumonia? Yup, kept smoking. If you are a smoker, I have NO compassion for you....you are making your own fate.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[n23x 0]

Those are really terrible things to hear.

As a hypothetical, if a smoker only smoked in their backyard, or their car, and only did so when no other person was present, what is your opinion regarding second hand smoke in that manor.

Do you feel that the second hand smoke from the above situation still provides the same effects?

Do you feel that they shouldn't be able to smoke in an open place such as that?

Just curious.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[rickjump1 0]

Quote

.... And be direct with the assholes. Remember, smoking is the epitomy of selfish behavior. So we need to recognize those smokers that understand that from those that don't.

I dug this out of some work jokes:
THANK YOU FOR NOT SMOKING
Cigarette smoke is the residue of your pleasure. It contaminates the air and pollutes my hair and clothes, not to mention my lungs. THIS TAKES PLACE WITHOUT MY CONSENT I have a pleasure also; I like a beer now and again. The residue from my pleasure is urine. Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair and pissed on your head and clothes without your consent?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Quote

that's exactly my position. asthma and migraines even today so it's very personal (the lungs are permanently damaged even today away from the old man's smoke for 25 years)

Same here, migraines, weakened lung defenses against an infection, reduced lung capacity, sinus issues, allergies, etc.

I am all for pushing smokers out of all public places and I narc on someone that breaks those rules. If you think about it, from 1-8 grades I missed over 150 school days - that is an ENTIRE year of school!! I really want to hear what a smoker has to say in argument of that?

My old man - the biggest smoker in the house? Haven't talked to him in over 4 years now. It's just one of many issues that forced me to break off talking to them. He would smoke two packs A NIGHT in our house. That was more important than his son's health. And when I was at home, passing out from coughing spasms or from pneumonia? Yup, kept smoking. If you are a smoker, I have NO compassion for you....you are making your own fate.

So here's to you smokers out there. CBS and I both support your right to smoke as long as it doesn't interfere with non-smokers, and we are damaged permanently from the stuff.

The radical outlaw it types don't think you can be responsible or considerate. I'm still on the fence there and, as such, prefer to keep the government out of it.

All we are asking is for you to not understate our issues with it (that is the biggest response from the smoking crowd) and to make serious efforts to understand that you are really affecting others in a real, medical way and to modify your behavior accordingly because it's the courteous thing to do, not because uncle SAM forces you - it'll stick better that way without resentment.

Oh, and if you have time, to try and teach your kids that smoking is a big waste of money and health - for their sakes.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Those are really terrible things to hear.

As a hypothetical, if a smoker only smoked in their backyard, or their car, and only did so when no other person was present, what is your opinion regarding second hand smoke in that manor.

Do you feel that the second hand smoke from the above situation still provides the same effects?

Do you feel that they shouldn't be able to smoke in an open place such as that?

Just curious.

.jim

you know, it really depends. Where is the smoke going? who's it affecting. (And really big here) - If it bugs them, are they courteous to the smoker in letting them know it's a problem, or just self-righteous asswipes about it. If we are courteous as non-smokers, 90% of the smokers will put it out, apologize, and find another place. I mean, in the end, they are probably pretty guilty about the addiction and most people don't want to rub others the wrong way. But if we are assholes, that 90% drops to 20% pretty fast.

Backyard? I have no issue if the neighbors don't, which way is the wind blowing? Do the neighbors on that side care?

Cars? It's maybe the worst of them all - it gets sucked into vent systems, floats in windows as cars move through it. I don't think smokers realize this at all. Try driving in rush hour in the summer with your windows shut and the ventilation system completely shut closed for the next month and then ask me again.

"Outside" is not the end all solution. It's isolation is what that takes. Sometimes that's outside, sometimes that's inside and a dedicated smoking room.

It would be a huge market if the 'fix' could be marketted without the smoke at an equivalent cost. Someone could make tons of money.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

No comment at the risk of agreeing with Rhino. I must need to take another look at my stance.

I also come from a home of smokers. Ear infections, throat infections, bloody noses, blah, blah, blah. It really seems it should be criminal to forcefully expose children to that. Now, if you are an adult and choose to live with a smoker that is one thing, but a child has no choice and that sucks!

But, I hear Vallerina's point about parents who feed their kids McDonald's everyday and the voice of reason steps in... PARENTS DO ALL SORTS OF HORRIBLE THINGS TO THEIR CHILDREN... how on earth can we ban everything that is harmful to children? It is just not possible. And, where would all of the children who were removed from their homes go? There wouldn't be enough space for them! This is the world we live in, and unfortunately people (who breed) make stupid decisions that not only affect themselves but the innocents around them. I think it is wrong to smoke around your children... but realistically, there isn't much I can do about it if you do.

-A

[rhino 0]

Quote

But, I hear Vallerina's point about parents who feed their kids McDonald's everyday and the voice of reason steps in...

Vallerina isn't a parent. I would expect her to make excuses for other parents that smoke.

What we have here is a responsibility problem. People are not willing to take responsibility for themselves. The more irresponsible someone is the more they rationalize why irresponsible things other people do should be o.k.

Think about it..

Rhino

[rhino 0]

Quote

I do not want the gov't raising our children.

I hate to tell you but they already are.... FOC is a prime example..

If states are making smoking illegal indoors (California for example) because of health risks of 2nd handers then why shouldn't smoking around kids in a home be illegal.

What about people that smoke around infants? PATHETIC.

People who light up at a resteraunt.. People are trying to have dinner. Children and babies are present as well?

I grew up with 2 parents that smoked. I hates every second of it. I still resent them for that selfish act. I grew up smelling like an ashtray and I didn't even know it.. Parents that smoke around their kids are pathetic loosers..

Rhino

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

Parents that smoke around their kids are pathetic loosers..

Wow, this is quite a statement!

Both my parents are former smokers. When they began smoking, the dangers of smoking was not common information as it is today. This was back in the days when people smoked on elevators, in subways, restaurants, theatres, airplanes, etc. By the time information was coming out as to the exact dangers of smoking, they were already addicted. Sure they tried many times to quit. Fortunately they finally did. I grew up in a house with second hand smoke. I had my share of bronchitis, allergies, etc. However, I would never consider my parents to be 'pathetic losers'. In fact, quite the contrary. If I had it all to do over again, I would put up with the bronchitis, allergies, etc. to be raised by two of the most magnificent people I know.

It seems to me that for you to make such a statement, you have other issues with your parents than just their smoking. I could be wrong. Correct me if I am.

Chris

[n23x 0]

Quote

Vallerina isn't a parent. I would expect her to make excuses...

Coming from a person who complains about their extensive relationship crisis online, I don't think you can really make this arguement, Rhino.

Just because one is not a parent does not mean that they can't make reasonable moral decisions.

Just like just because one is not in the armed forces, doesn't mean that they cannot make a valid complaint about the actions of someone who's served.

You know better.

edited: it sucks that your and other parents smoked around you and you put up with a variety of related illness, but to think that ALL people cannot smoke responsibly and thus need to be made illegal, or condemned abusive is preposterous.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[minobu 0]

Hey I know lets get the government to legislate every aspect of our lives that would be much better wouldn't it? If there is anything that might be harmful in the slightest (I know smoking is not slightly harmful) we shouldn't be allowed to do it ... like alcohol because you know if we drink we are hurting ourselves and potentially others as well so lets get rid of alcohol as well.

Pretty soon the government is gonna be telling us when we can take a shit ... I mean hell now they can take our house so that private investors can make more money why not get them involved in every aspect of our lives and bodies?

BTW I am a smoker and I don't EVER smoke inside or inside the car when I have my kid with me but I really think our wonderful (ya right) government intrudes in matters dealing with MY body enough as it is

Only skydivers know why the birds sing!

Jim

[EBSB52 0]

Quote

Quote

Again, read the above post. I feel for ya man. It is a mother fucker to quit, so I hear. I have some people at work I really respect and they're almost in tears cause they can't quit. WTF. That doesn't mean we should push it off on others who choose not to smoke. Just like the thread about the lady who got killed by a street racer - you don't have the right to push off your or mt problems. habits, events, compulsions on others.

wtf are you talking about? Because I have smoked a few times in the past I am addicted? WTF. That's funny. My apologies if that is not what your implying. But if not I don't know what your point is

I interpreted it as saying you smoke. Maybe you're a social smoker as opposed to a cumpulsive smoker, but if you can't kick it you're addicted. Either way, you're defending the"right" to smoke inthe presence of others, which is a tough position to hold.

[EBSB52 0]

Quote

Quote

I can, we all can pollute the air in the effort to get to work; we shouldn't pollute other people's personal space with carcinogens so we can perpetuate our compulsions.

Holy crap.. We agree on something@!

[EBSB52 0]

Quote

Quote

I think parents that smoke in cars or in homes with children are abusers.

Yes, but it's a different degree than something like hitting them. It's more like neglect which is a less escalatory term.

Quote

It should be against the law

You can't legislate courtesy, you can't legislate intelligence.

But as individuals, we can be decent to those who find ways to get their fix without affecting the rest of us. And be direct with the assholes. Remember, smoking is the epitomy of selfish behavior. So we need to recognize those smokers that understand that from those that don't.

Yes, but it's a different degree than something like hitting them. It's more like neglect which is a less escalatory term.


Neglecting to remove your kods from another environment where people are smoking, but you failed to check it out is neglect. Smoking in the same confined area as your kids is very procative and is virtually malicious. I think it's more along the lines of endangerment.

[EBSB52 0]

Quote

Quote

I can, we all can pollute the air in the effort to get to work; we shouldn't pollute other people's personal space with carcinogens so we can perpetuate our compulsions.

Brilliant reasoning. If it helps you sleep at night so be it. We all already do it, we can't stop now.

So you need transportation to keep the world spinning? Ever ride a bus? Carpool? Ride a bike? Don't push your car polluting habits on me and the kids.

The point of all of this is:

It is asinine to decide that one form of polluting the air isn't ok, and yet another form which no doubt dumps a far greater amount of pullutants in the air, is ok, just because it keeps the world spinning and YOU decide that it is not nearly as consequential as the first, because you think the first is so localized.

As mentioned before, there's a lot of other shit that needs to be fixed before we start crying about this. And once again I will re-iterate that the parents PROBABLY shouldn't smoke around their kids, and smoking outside is FINE. If they are blowing smoke in their kids face, that's a different story. If they are putting their cigarettes out on their kids, that's a different story.

Finally, lets up the conversation with one more thing that I am not a smoker, and have never smoked.

.jim

Brilliant reasoning. If it helps you sleep at night so be it.

Instead of stating ignorant semi-illiteration, try to refute the points.

We all already do it, we can't stop now.


Can't stop what, smoking? This isn't about the smokers, this is about the health and rights to breath air w/o carcinogens. Don't stop, I don't care, but don't polute my air or the air of your kids or other kids.

So you need transportation to keep the world spinning?Ever ride a bus?

Yep. One deosn't go to my work now.

Carpool? Ride a bike?

If I can, I work 38 miles from home in a semi-remote area.

Don't push your car polluting habits on me and the kids.

Don't be ridiculous. Cars are neccessary to make the world go around, yes they are. I don't drive an SUV, so that arg won't apply to me. Sadly, that is your best arg to support smoking around people. Furthermore, auto emissions aren't released in my face, whereas smoke form cigs is.

It is asinine to decide that one form of polluting the air isn't ok, and yet another form which no doubt dumps a far greater amount of pullutants in the air, is ok, just because it keeps the world spinning and YOU decide that it is not nearly as consequential as the first, because you think the first is so localized.


It is assinine to ignore the fact that smoking is a compulsion and driving a car, riding an airplane, train, etc is not neccesary. Furthermore, it is even more assinine to confuse the argument to be one of gross polution. I don't care if smokers smoke in the privacy of their own property and thus polute the air. I do care if they smoke in the confined spaces with kids or in the public.

As mentioned before, there's a lot of other shit that needs to be fixed before we start crying about this.

So what you do atrocious, butthere are worse things out there.... that is assinine logic. Isn't that like saying rape is bad, but there are unsolved murders out there so let's ignore the rapes? Why can't we simultaneously correct all the wrongs of society at the same time? We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

And once again I will re-iterate that the parents PROBABLY shouldn't smoke around their kids, ...

Probably? Jesbus.

...and smoking outside is FINE.

But not in public.

If they are blowing smoke in their kids face, that's a different story.

If the kids are in the same room, they get to enjoy the smoke as well.

Finally, lets up the conversation with one more thing that I am not a smoker, and have never smoked.

Didn't this: "We all already do it, we can't stop now."
refer to already smoking, or was that some vague reference to something else.

Regardless, this is not an attack on you whether or not you smoke. I don't care what you do, but the issue of allowing people to poison others due to no public neccessity is inane.