When is smoking in a home with children going to become illegal?

[EBSB52 0]

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Vallerina isn't a parent. I would expect her to make excuses...

Coming from a person who complains about their extensive relationship crisis online, I don't think you can really make this arguement, Rhino.

Just because one is not a parent does not mean that they can't make reasonable moral decisions.

Just like just because one is not in the armed forces, doesn't mean that they cannot make a valid complaint about the actions of someone who's served.

You know better.

edited: it sucks that your and other parents smoked around you and you put up with a variety of related illness, but to think that ALL people cannot smoke responsibly and thus need to be made illegal, or condemned abusive is preposterous.

.jim

I'm gonna call you the Ad Hominem queen. So what does Rhino's personal love life have to do with whether smkoers should have the 'right' to smoke in public or in confined spaces? When you attempt to impeach the author and not the issue, you have committed an Ad Hominem. Now, in an internet forum, most people aren't intelligent enough to discern or even notice. But in higher levels of argumentation, they would immediatley shut you down.

Just like just because one is not in the armed forces, doesn't mean that they cannot make a valid complaint about the actions of someone who's served.


Just because someone might or might not complain about their personal life on-line doesn't mean they cannot argue about the merits of outlawing smoking in public or around kids.... same/same...

but to think that ALL people cannot smoke responsibly and thus need to be made illegal, or condemned abusive is preposterous.


You mean, "all smokers" not, "all people." All people don't smoke, in fact, isn't it like 20% of all people in America that smoke?

Also, many people can drive 90mph and never have an accident. But some people cannot and we live in a country of millions, so the law just draws a line and cites above that. Well, since so many smokers cannot behave - we need to draw that line and have the cops cite all who violate.

[n23x 0]

No, the a "we allready do it, we can't stop now" is in reference to pollution caused by every single US citizen and their mother owning a car, and operating it reglarly.

As you very well suggest in your own post, there's no way that you can stop polluting the air around us with your car. You HAVE to. Who cares that you don't drive an SUV, you are still polluting MY air, just less.

Regarding rape, I never said it that since some might consider it a "lesser crime" to murder that we should ignore it. Murder is murder. Rape is rape. Smoking hasn't been considered "abuse", and further, we didn't even know about the side effects until a while ago. Does that mean it is right to continue? Not necessaryily, we are taking "care" of it with the no smoking laws in bars and restaraunts. Does that mean that someone cannot/should not smoke outside? I don't think so.

But I suppose you can keep crying me a river. Like Rehmwa mentioned before, that 90% rapidly goes to 20%. While I am not a smoker at all, dealing with smokers in a snively manor will get you a far greater of those who oppose your every stance.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[n23x 0]

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I'm gonna call you the Ad Hominem queen.

Oh, you got me.

Rhino's statement that Vallerina "couldn't make a right decision because she's not a parent" (because that is what he implied) is the equivilent of me pointing out that societal disfunction, as placed on the internet also makes him "unworthy of appropriate decisions". You call me the "add hominem queen" and yet, Rhino is guilty of committing it first.

Yes, I did mean all smokers. Not all people. Why don't you begin a committee regarding parents smoking around their children. You complain about me bitching on the internet, though I don't see you heading up much else. Yes, many people can drive 90 mph and do just fine doing so. I have been known to do the same on some highways. Your point is not really relevent to our conversation regarding smokers who may legally smoke, smoking in such a manor that others may feel some slight effect of them smoking.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[airdweller 0]

I do not want the gov't raising our children.

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I hate to tell you but they already are....


____________________________________________________________________

And with people like you around the government will continue to play an increasingly bigger role in our lives

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[rhino 0]

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I'm gonna call you the Ad Hominem queen. So what does Rhino's personal love life have to do with whether smkoers should have the 'right' to smoke in public or in confined spaces? When you attempt to impeach the author and not the issue, you have committed an Ad Hominem. Now, in an internet forum, most people aren't intelligent enough to discern or even notice. But in higher levels of argumentation, they would immediatley shut you down.

Just like just because one is not in the armed forces, doesn't mean that they cannot make a valid complaint about the actions of someone who's served.


Just because someone might or might not complain about their personal life on-line doesn't mean they cannot argue about the merits of outlawing smoking in public or around kids.... same/same...

but to think that ALL people cannot smoke responsibly and thus need to be made illegal, or condemned abusive is preposterous.


You mean, "all smokers" not, "all people." All people don't smoke, in fact, isn't it like 20% of all people in America that smoke?

Also, many people can drive 90mph and never have an accident. But some people cannot and we live in a country of millions, so the law just draws a line and cites above that. Well, since so many smokers cannot behave - we need to draw that line and have the cops cite all who violate.

Damn.. That's twice we agree

[tbrown 26]

So should the government have the right to take away smokers' children ? What if I like 2-3 drinks every night, not a drunk, but a few drinks ? Can they take my kids then ? Or if I like to watch x-rated DVDs, even if I'm careful not to watch them when the kids are home ? Or how about if I don't take the kids to church on Sunday, or worse yet, I don't take them to the "right" church ? Or if I give my kid ONE swat across the tail to focus his attention because I don't want him running into the street ? Do any of these things make me an abusive parent ?

If I'm not starving, beating, or raping my kids, and if I give them a reasonably clean home and send them to school, then anything else that goes on is none of the government's damn business. If you want to experiment with the social engineering of the family, move somewhere like Sweden, or a kibbutz.

The thing to remember about America and our revolution is that the Founding Fathers recognized human nature for what it was and didn't try to change it, only to regulate it worst extremes (laws against murder, robbery, rape, etc.). The other "great" revolutions; the French, Bolshevik, Chinese Cultural, and Cambodian revolutions were all about trying to reshape human nature into a "perfect" human. And all they ended up doing was killing people by the millions until the people had enough and put a stop to it.

Compared with the nineteenth century, we've come a long way with kids. We've regulated child labor, kids don't smoke or chew tobacco the way they used to, they don't get brandy for breakfast or opium at bedtime (both were once considered "good for them"). We even strap the little shavers into car seats - which I'm all for.

But when an activity like smoking is a.) legal, and b.) subsidized by the government, I don't see how you can charqacterize smokers as abusers. Even if they are stupid...

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[skysquiffy 0]

***Smoking is a useless compulsion/activity/habit, etc... Driving a car to work to keep the aircraft flying is useful and the world would come to a halt o everyone quit doing it

I can, we all can pollute the air in the effort to get to work; we shouldn't pollute other people's personal space with carcinogens so we can perpetuate our compulsions.

[popsjumper 2]

I vote a resounding NO on legislating individual rights.

Wait until the Gov comes to take your house for a private developer to build a mall....you'll just love the idea of screwing individual rights.

Smoking around children? Stupid, irresponsible and just NOT cool....but legislating it? Wrong way to go....

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rehmwa 2]

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So should the government have the right to take away smokers' children ? What if I like 2-3 drinks every night, not a drunk, but a few drinks ? Can they take my kids then ? Or if I like to watch x-rated DVDs, even if I'm careful not to watch them when the kids are home ? Or how about if I don't take the kids to church on Sunday, or worse yet, I don't take them to the "right" church ? Or if I give my kid ONE swat across the tail to focus his attention because I don't want him running into the street ? Do any of these things make me an abusive parent ?
...

If you are in an extreme right wing community or an extreme left wing community - you might want to walk softly on any of these items.

sad isn't it?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[narcimund 0]

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If you are in an extreme right wing community or an extreme left wing community ...

You mean like the US?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[rehmwa 2]

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If you are in an extreme right wing community or an extreme left wing community ...

You mean like the US?

No, I mean like "in" the US. I'm cynical, but you take the cake sometimes.

There are many communities in the US that fit the bill. In my area we are rather polarized and you can find both types of communities very easily. I have lived in areas that are more moderated in viewpoint and it's much nicer.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[craddock 0]

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Maybe you're a social smoker as opposed to a cumpulsive smoker, but if you can't kick it you're addicted.

Why are you so fucking persistant to call me a smoker. I hate cigarettes. Now I have admitted that I have bummed them before when I was drunk. I remember the last time I had one- I smoked about 1/4th of it and had to sit down. I only brought up that I had smoked them to point out the major difference between second hand smoke and actually smoking them
I don't eat chocolate either although I have been know to eat some rarely when I was really hungry. I have never been into sweets. Chocolate also gives me a little buzz because I so rarely eat it. Are you going to claim I am addicted to chocolate now?

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Either way, you're defending the"right" to smoke inthe presence of others, which is a tough position to hold.

Wrong. There is a big difference between not wanting legislation passed against our behaviour and actually agreeing with it. I realize that is very hard to understand for some people.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.