Troops acting against their oath?

[billvon 2,991]

>I worked with border patrol with their training . . .

We shared an airport with the border patrol for a while. They were easy to work with and went out of their way to help us out, in terms of keeping clear of the DZ, looking for lost jumpers, even on occasion helping us back into the US when we'd land in Mexico.

One of the cooler aircraft they had was a Super Cub with a radio stack that would be the envy of a King Air owner and a FLIR system. Can fly incredibly slowly and stay aloft for hours for very little $$.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

My biggest problem with the border patrol and immigration while training them was that they did not take the training and educaton as serious and when it came to participating in the roles people would get hurt when they shouldnt have, me alone I had them break 2 of my ribs, collapse a lung, shoot me in the eye when I wasnt in my gear because they were playing with the weapons, broken wrist, tons of bruises where they shouldnt be bloody noses, out of the 75 agencies we helped train they were the only ones who injured me, well besides the time I tripped while running... Then again there were exceptions, I do know that the border patrol has less stringent criteria and that the demand for positions to be filled is high and so sometimes and often people are hired for those positions that are not qualified

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[jumperboy357 0]

Yes Cliff I am aware of what's going on in the news. I may not agree with private property being taken for development, but that's not what your post was about. You were lamb basting the hardworking and dedicated soldiers of this great nation. You mentioned a little something about honor and you know what my reply was to that. So, if you're mad at the government that's you're problem. What I see in your posts are inconsistent thought patterns that have no relation to the previous post. Are you taking your meds correctly? SSG James

[Treejumps 0]

With 10 percent of the entire Mexican popoulation (Thats 10 million of them) living illegally in the US, I say that we desperately need to start defending our boarders. I'm all for militerzation of our boarder with Mexico and for spending the money to start rounding up those 10 million criminals and shipping them back, ASAP. But what does Iraq have to do with that?

Once again you make no sense, make no point, and come off as a nut case. But you are entertaining, and I do always get a chuckle from reading your dribble. I guess we'll keep you on for a while. Now run along and do what you're told.

[gkc1436 3]

>posse comitatus

i believe this only prohibites the use of military against the citizens, not illegals

i might be wrong

g

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

as the National Guard is now performing in the role of US military overseas, was it a violation of "posse comitatus" when they were deployed against those kids at Ohio State? How about when they were down in Mississippi against the State to open those state colledges to blacks?
If that wasn't in violation of the posse comitatus clause,
Why can't they be deployed to enforce our border laws?

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>posse comitatus

i believe this only prohibites the use of military against the citizens, not illegals

i might be wrong

Posse Comitatus prohibits the federal military and National Guard units under federal control from acting as law enforcement in the United States. There are exceptions:

was it a violation of "posse comitatus" when they were deployed against those kids at Ohio State? - No because governors may deploy them. As with the more recent LA Riots, and even with the Florida hurricanes, the governor can compel them to do so. In Kent state, the mayor asked the governor for National Guard troops.

How about when they were down in Mississippi against the State to open those state colledges to blacks? This is another exception, where president Kennedy used the troops to quell domestic violence. He "federalized" the troops. I think eisenhower did the same thing in 1957, where he sent the 101st to guard some black students entering a high school.

Why can't they be used for border purposes? Well, if the POTUS declared a national emergency, they could. In fact, Congress could allow it the same way they have allowed the military to assist in drug enforcement and interdiction.

I'm not sure about the Coast Guard, though. They fall under the Dept. of Homeland Security...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

We shared an airport with the border patrol for a while. They were easy to work with and went out of their way to help us out, in terms of keeping clear of the DZ, looking for lost jumpers, even on occasion helping us back into the US when we'd land in Mexico.

Talk about an OUT landing! What leads to that - prevailing winds, a long/short spot, premature deploy, high altitude XC...?

So that's how the 10,000 Mexicans cross every day. Each is carrying a parachute.

[billvon 2,991]

>Talk about an OUT landing! What leads to that - prevailing winds, a
>long/short spot, premature deploy, high altitude XC...?

Bad spots, not paying attention, idiot skydivers, a low cypres fire, a night jump gone wrong . . . a lot of things.

>So that's how the 10,000 Mexicans cross every day. Each is carrying a parachute.

The mexicans are really helpful when you land out. They show you all the holes and the places you can jump the fence. It's the federales you have to watch for. Almost had one incident between the federales and the border patrol during one out landing. Guns were drawn but fortunately not used.

[wingnut 0]

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National Guard ..... deployed against those kids at Ohio State

if you're gona use this as an example ya might want to get the right incedent you ment to say "KENT STATE" right? (which is about 2 hours from ohio state by car) cuz that's where 4 got killed, all that happned at ohio state was some tear gas (my aunt got caught between classes in part of the gas)....

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[eaglenrider 0]

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Yes Cliff I am aware of what's going on in the news.
__________________________________________________
Actually , James, It's going on in real life !
I know it all seems like it's just on tv and "no big deal" but, the Supreme Court is right now a domestic enemy of our Constitution!!!!!
So what are YOU going to do?
Going to honor your oath or sit on your ass waiting for your next MRE ?

Blues,
Cliff

• Quote

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

We DO NOT want to fight the enemy at home, we want to fight them far away from home.
__________________________________________________
Riddle me this, ViperPilot;
If the "terrorists" are so bright and cunning as they displayed on 9-11, do you really believe that they are swarming to Iraq like moths to a lamp post to take on the US military?
Have you ever considered that if this "terrorist" threat to America was actual ,those cunning and wily "terrorists" would be sneaking up from Mexico and down from Cananada like ants at a picnic to set off car bombs all over the states on a daily basis?
Isn't that what "terrorists" do? Terrorize their enemy?
You seem to think that we need to take the fight to them. Don't you think that these terrorists would have had the same idea? Take the fight to America?
But we haven't had any attacks since 9-11, have we ViperPilot.
Don't pat yourself on the back for that one,you are out of the country and leaving our borders wide open to whomever wishes to enter!
The evidence indicates that there just isn't much of a "terrorist" threat against America.

Blues,
Cliff

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[tbrown 26]

Doesn't the Constitution mention something about the troops purpose as defending our borders? Something about defending this country from attack?

[eaglenrider 0]

As for their oath, it's to "protect the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic". They also answer to a civilian Commander in Chief (the Prez). reply]
__________________________________________________
Good points you bring up there tbrown!
Don't they also swear an oath to the Constitution?

Ya' see ,tbrown, this war in Iraq is "unconstitutional" as it was never declared by Congeress as required *Constitutionaly".

Hmm. Let's think about that for a while.

Blues,
Cliff

[eaglenrider 0]

if you're gona use this as an example ya might want to get the right incedent you ment to say "KENT STATE" right? (which is about 2 hours from ohio state by car) cuz that's where 4 got killed, all that happned at ohio state was some tear gas (my aunt got caught between classes in part of the gas)....

[tcnelson 1]

Quote

Don't they also swear an oath to the Constitution?

they swear an oath to defend the constitution.

Quote

this war in Iraq is "unconstitutional" as it was never declared by Congeress as required *Constitutionaly".

congress did vote on it. look it up. the UN also voted on it. look it up.

you think about that for awhile.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[eaglenrider 0]

congress did vote on it. look it up. the UN also voted on it. look it up.
__________________________________________________
Actually,tonelson, my friend, if you research you will realize that Congress never declared War.
They simply passed a resolution allowing G(WMD)Bush to use our military if Saddam was a threat.
At least that's how I remember it. No worries, wingnut will be along shortly to point out my errors as to the derails!
Now ,tonelson, can you site any portion of the Constitution which states that the Congress can transfer their powers over to the Executive branch?
No need to look!
Of course you can't!
The Founding Fathers, very wisely, put this task over the heads of the Congress . Kinda a sword of Democulese(fix that spelling ,wouldja' wingman).

See ,tonelson, If Congress hasn't made a formal declaration of War, the War against Iraq is Unconstitutional.

It is also UnConstitutional for several other reasons(treaties we have entered into ,etc.), but for right now let's just discuss the lack of a Congressional Declaration of War.

What say you?

Blues,
Cliff

you think about that for awhile.

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

I say that we desperately need to start defending our boarders. I'm all for militerzation of our boarder with Mexico and for spending the money to start rounding up those 10 million criminals and shipping them back, ASAP. But what does Iraq have to do with that?
__________________________________________________
It has to do with Globalization and the New World Order, Mr "Treejumps .
Years ago something occuring in one part of the world may have had no relation to other parts of the world, but that was then.
What we have today is a Global Strategy by the rich and corporate elite to bring about the New World Order.
Of course, they couldn't bring America into this system as long as brave fighting American troops are here in USA . Those troops just wouldn't fire on their grandmas.
The solution is to get them boys out of the country . The excuse is to bring "Democracy" to other countries.
Thing is ,the USA isn't a Democracy! So that's your first clue that you're being steered wrong!

The plan , and this is what will happen unless good men make a stand now, is for Bill Clinton to be appointed the President of the UN.
Hillary will switch to the Republican party and become President of the US in 2008.
UN troops will be dispatched to the USA . Russkies and Chinks won't have any problems sighting in on our fellow Citizens who refuse to tow the line.
That's what all this emminent domain stuff is about! Going communist! The good of the state is bigger than your private property rights! Wake up!!
Take that to a Global Level.The good of all the people on earth is way more important than you!
You have no Rights!
Sorry , you dead is the best thing for the Global Populace. Good-Bye ,Sainora,nice to know ya'.

Does any of that make sense?

Blues,
Cliff

• Quote

[Michele 1]

Quote

Does any of that make sense?

No.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[tcnelson 1]

congress didn't have to declare war. your answer is in your own post:

Quote

They [congress] simply passed a resolution allowing G(WMD)Bush to use our military if Saddam was a threat.

so, in effect, they voted to give the executive branch the authority to invade iraq. hence, the war is not unconstitutional nor illegal (redundant).

Quote

If Congress hasn't made a formal declaration of War, the War against Iraq is Unconstitutional.

wrong. just plain wrong. see above eaglesncheddar.

so which treaties that the US has entered into make the iraq war unconstitutional? i'm on pins and needles with anticipation.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

Quote

Does any of that make sense?

No.
__________________________________________________

If it did you wouldn't be duped so easily into it , would you?
But so many in America aren't considering the whole picture.
They aren't "into politics".
They are very content to just be able to skydive on the weekends and take their very legal , Dr. prescribed, mind numbing drugs through the week.

Have you ever heard of the "report from Iron Mountain " , Michelle?

If you ever have a real moment of clarity,
a moment when your mind is just for one second ,free of drugs(not that that is likely to happen) you might want to give it a read.

Blues,
Cliff

• Quote

[tcnelson 1]

Quote

The plan , and this is what will happen unless good men make a stand now, is for Bill Clinton to be appointed the President of the UN.
Hillary will switch to the Republican party and become President of the US in 2008.
UN troops will be dispatched to the USA . Russkies and Chinks won't have any problems sighting in on our fellow Citizens who refuse to tow the line.
That's what all this emminent domain stuff is about! Going communist! The good of the state is bigger than your private property rights! Wake up!!
Take that to a Global Level.The good of all the people on earth is way more important than you!
You have no Rights!
Sorry , you dead is the best thing for the Global Populace. Good-Bye ,Sainora,nice to know ya'.

Does any of that make sense?

holy crap...i didn't know that i was debating with a straight jacket. i'm gonna slowly back out of the room now...

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

congress didn't have to declare war. your answer is in your own post:

Quote

They [congress] simply passed a resolution allowing G(WMD)Bush to use our military if Saddam was a threat.

so, in effect, they voted to give the executive branch the authority to invade iraq. hence, the war is not unconstitutional nor illegal (redundant).
__________________________________________________
First you haven't stated any portion of the Constitution which allows the Legislative to transfer their powers to the Executive.
Secondly , I believe the Congressional resolution was qualified . Wasn't there an if?

We'll get into the treaties after we clear up this dilemna.

Blues,
Cliff

• Quote

[Michele 1]

Quote

f it did you wouldn't be duped so easily into it , would you?
But so many in America aren't considering the whole picture.
They aren't "into politics".
They are very content to just be able to skydive on the weekends and take their very legal , Dr. prescribed, mind numbing drugs through the week.

'
No. What I meant about things not making sense was your allusion about the Tri-Lateral Commission, the Illuminati, HAARP, Masonry, hegemony, black helicopters, concentration camps in Utah, and on and on. That stuff - like yours - makes no sense.

Quote

Have you ever heard of the "report from Iron Mountain " , Michelle?

Nope. Have you ever heard of Dune?

Quote

If you ever have a real moment of clarity,

Rather often, thanks. And I enjoy clear, rational thinking so much that man, I would wish it on everyone.

Quote

a moment when your mind is just for one second ,free of drugs(not that that is likely to happen) you might want to give it a read.

Perhaps I will. You might want to read Dune, too. It's a good, fascinating series of books. If you have the attention span to get through all 6.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[justinb138 0]

Quote

Russkies and Chinks won't have any problems sighting in on our fellow Citizens who refuse to tow the line.

Think you could lay off the racial slurs for at least one thread?

[eaglenrider 0]

holy crap...i didn't know that i was debating with a straight jacket. i'm gonna slowly back out of the room now...