Ron 10 #51 June 28, 2005 QuoteBut if people can’t see the difference between a religious symbol and a swastika it is a sad day for all of us Ah, bad news dude....A Swastika IS a religious symbol...Long before it was a symbol of the Nazi party. QuoteThroughout India, the image of the swastika is as ubiquitous as the image of the serpent. It appears on Siva temples, the doors of homes, as a decoration on mobile food-stalls, in folk art and on rugs, and exists as a significant design or yantra at ceremonial occasions. Buddhism emerged from Hinduism and, the swastika, borrowed from the Hindus is a symbol of esoteric Buddhism. As such, it was placed over the heart of the Buddha, stamped on the breasts of departed initiates and planted wherever Buddhists have left their mark. It is regarded as the symbol of esoteric Buddhism and the mark of a perfectly evolved being whose soul (or spirit) has entered Nirvana or liberation from the world of matter. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #52 June 28, 2005 Semantics killed that cat. Base jumping is not illegal by default, even if we refer to it that way. Activities without a permit are in certain parks. By performing one without a permit, you acted illegally, but not exclusively because of BASE jumping. I would imagine you would face the same charges for lighting a fire without a permit in a certain spot. I dont think it is apples and oranges. You can base jump on private land and not be subject to NPS, just like you can jump at a non USPA dropzone and not be subject to BSRs. QuoteBut, if he fucks up, there are constitutioal arguments, aren't there? A public university chancellor or academic senate is no different from from any other governmental body. Yes it is, they are at the bottom, not the top. If a decision made it can be challenged, and pretty easily. If the legislature or a supreme court makes a decision it is a bit more binding. As for the jacket...it has words on it. I am familiar, the flipside would be the deCSS code incident with Jon Johansen, where it was rules that source code printed on a t shirt was covered under free speech. I was referring to the comparison of symbols, I did not intend to ad written text to that, as neither the flag or cross symbols have any. I have no idea on the cross really, my point was just that it was referenced as this nifty relegious parallel to this argument, and I thought cross burning is racial motivated.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #53 June 28, 2005 QuoteAh, bad news dude....A Swastika IS a religious symbol...Long before it was a symbol of the Nazi party. I'm amazed at exactly how few people actually know that. It amazes me that they could have not learned about other peoples and cultures. Not directed at Darius, but in my experience as ironic as it is, its been the hard-core liberals that I've encountered that did not know that. They saw the symbol as they wished, ignoring the people for whom the symbol has religous significance.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,544 #54 June 28, 2005 And interestingly enough, it's been the hard-core conservatives that I've asked who didn't know. Some Aryan Nations types might have researched it extensively to validate it, but, well, most of the hard-core conservatives would rather not be associated with them. It's also a traditional Native American emblem (we had a piano bench cover with swastikas all over it for years). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #55 June 28, 2005 Quotemost of the hard-core conservatives would rather not be associated with them. I would argue that most everyone regardless of political beliefs would rather not associate with aryan nation types.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,544 #56 June 28, 2005 Yep, you're right about that. But with my blinders on, it didn't occur to me that liberals even might be associated with them. Those aren't good blinders. Thanks. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #57 June 28, 2005 Quote*** Not directed at Darius, but in my experience as ironic as it is, its been the hard-core liberals that I've encountered that did not know that. They saw the symbol as they wished, ignoring the people for whom the symbol has religous significance. My experience is that the uneducated of all persuasions are the least likely to know history. Most liberals I know are very well educated (having graduate degrees, etc.).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #58 June 28, 2005 Most muppets I know are on TV, but someone has to know them personally right? Despite my differences with you kallend, you are educated, so it does not surprise you associate with educated people. Unfortunately, you cannot make the same assessment in general about conservatives or liberals. Educated people are educated, QED. A more interesting question might be what is their source of information. It has been postulated in Sci-fi novels before that fooling the white collar citizens would be easy, just present it in a respected journal. Blue collars citizens would rather trust their senses. I am not arguing for either, just commenting that both have their own version of 'faith' in knowledge. While aggiedave and a few others know it, I am nor surprised that in a thread about outlawing a flag, few people know the various meanings of the swastika. I am not sure any of them know the various meanings of the flag in reference.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #59 June 28, 2005 QuoteMy experience is that the uneducated of all persuasions are the least likely to know history. I can agree with that... QuoteMost liberals I know are very well educated (having graduate degrees, etc.). ... Having a graduate degree in say engineering does not guarantee any knowledge of history or any other topic other than engineering (and given some of the engineers that I have worked with, it is not a guarantee of that either) JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #60 June 28, 2005 QuoteMost liberals I know are very well educated (having graduate degrees, etc.). I also noticed that most people who think they are educated are liberals. Check out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? at least, that was my experience from college. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #61 June 28, 2005 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- then why would they want to keep the Confederate flag legal? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Its still perfectly legal to have nazi symbols and memorabilia right? Its still perfectly legal to have a cross. Its still perfectly legal to have a star of david. All of those symbols offend someone. They're not illegal, You can own just about anything you want, although they may not be displayed in government buildings (or they might for a short time). So, it seems pretty shitty that one symbol of the majority's beliefs may be held above the symbols of others beliefs in this regard. We can put the 10 commandments (obviously religious!) in a government building, but not a nazi symbol? HA! I think that they should hang a nazi symbol and a star of David right next to it! As far as banning the confederate flag goes... I see people argue about everything it stands for, but let's be real here... most people who display this flag are racists. (I know that because I have some in my (distantish) family, so i've been around these people and their (equally racist) friends!) -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #62 June 28, 2005 QuoteDescrating /= owning Maybe if I repeat it enough someone will think about it. And just for a small procedural point....to my knowledge the amedment is not passed yet. Really? But if I own it, I SHOULD be allowed to desecrate it if I wish. If I am not allowed to do as I please with it then obviously I don't really own it, i'm just in possession of it. Just a brief moment of clarity in your world of "Descrating /= owning" -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #63 June 28, 2005 QuoteCheck out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? You know, of all the ones I know, they're all liberals...hard-core liberals, fairly extreme in their beliefs.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #64 June 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteMy experience is that the uneducated of all persuasions are the least likely to know history. I can agree with that... QuoteMost liberals I know are very well educated (having graduate degrees, etc.). ... Having a graduate degree in say engineering does not guarantee any knowledge of history or any other topic other than engineering (and given some of the engineers that I have worked with, it is not a guarantee of that either) J Quote Before you get into graduate school you need a BS degree, and every BS degree from every accredited college and university in the USA must have a sizeable humanties and social sciences "general education" component. Not that it means the students remember anything after taking their finals, of course.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverborg 0 #65 June 29, 2005 QuoteI also noticed that most people who think they are educated are liberals. Check out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? Amen, I'm glad to hear someone say that. I went to two different state colleges, and it was just ridiculous. These kids take a few classes and think they know how the world works. The professors I encountered were so biased, the kids were just damn near brainwashed into their opinion. You've got to keep in mind that most professors haven't succeeded in their field, or they've just been schooled to go on to school others (referring mostly to humanities and english) They've got nothing better to do than to vent their frustrations with society or keep on pushing the same ideals that they were pushed. LIBERALISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW YOU WERE EDUCATED, BUT WITH HOW YOU WERE SCHOOLED. I think any person who has lived and worked in the real world and knows how to become successful has a much better idea of how the world works than some college student. AND YES I DO HAVE A DEGREE FROM A LIBERAL STATE COLLEGE, AND I'M WORKING ON ANOTHER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mirage63 0 #66 June 29, 2005 Quote No, I get it, I just think that you're not a very good troll. It was a decent idea for a trolling post, to get people riled up and such, you just don't know how to troll very well LOL-I have to agree, it's a troll BUT Val get's 62 responses so you have to give it a "good troll" score! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #67 June 29, 2005 I have the Stars and Bars tattooed on my arm and I am not a racist. My ancestors fought for the Confederacy. The intent to leave thw Union was all about restoring power back to the States and taking that power from the Federal Government. So many people only hear about slavery when anything of the South is discussed. Little known fact is that slave holding companies were mostly in the North whom sold to the South (a great number of Northerners also held slaves). Little known fact is that Jefferson Davis wished to abolish slavery in the South. His intent was to intergrate them into society through educating them first. The emancipation did more harm than good. After the slaves were "freed" they faced more problems as very few in the North actually gave a damn about them. True, he also held slaves whom he considered employees. His own slaves were payed the same has anyone else. He also educated his employees and gave them land. They were also free to leave anytime they wished. Little known fact is that the KKK ( ya want to outlaw something, outlaw these fuckheads) did not start waving the Stars and Bars untill the 1960's. Up untill then they waved (and still do) the American flag. I am not at all ashamed that my forefathers fought for the South. There are some folks here in Missouri (the 13th star on the Stars and Bars, St. Andrews Cross) whom wish to outlaw my flag and keep me from flying it. Drive around here and you will find the Stars and Bars flying proudly in a great number of yards. Along side it you will also find my other flag, the Stars and Stripes."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #68 June 29, 2005 QuoteAnd interestingly enough, it's been the hard-core conservatives that I've asked who didn't know. Some Aryan Nations types might have researched it extensively to validate it, but, well, most of the hard-core conservatives would rather not be associated with them. It's also a traditional Native American emblem (we had a piano bench cover with swastikas all over it for years). Wendy W. The Navajo Indian viewed it as a sun symbol. It was also used in ancient Troy and Myaceane culture as a good luck symbol. It first reached Germany in the 1870's or so when a German archeoligist brought it back after a dig somewhere in the middle east. What is shameful is how some ( Nazi's, KKK) take a symbol and twist it into something that represents evil intent."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdhill 0 #69 June 29, 2005 QuoteBefore you get into graduate school you need a BS degree Well, that's not always true... there are several 5-year programs that skip the BS (no pun intended)... Architecture is a prime example... and you left out all the folks that get BA's too... Besides, like you mentioned, how many remember anything after the last final... I come across lots of folks that are educated beyond there intelligence. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #70 June 29, 2005 QuoteThat's equivalent, nowadays, to someone not being ashamed that their relatives flew aircraft into the WTC. The southerners of yesteryear were considered the same way we consider terrorists today Jesus, I'm going to have put on my waist high boots to wade though this bullshit. Apparently you bought into the post Lincoln reconstruction view of the South. It was United States citizens that disagreed with what could happen to them, then the Union government basically told them all to fuck off. Look at the election results in which Lincoln won, how many ballots below the mason-dixion line was old Abe in? How many southern states voted for him? What about the changes that was trying to be made without the southern influence? I keep getting surprised at how you percieve history and leave out important details. I'm also fairly offended at your comparison between the Civil War and the terrorists the US is currently fighting. Its a stereotype liberal arguement, all emotion, no facts.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #71 June 29, 2005 Bill, Where did your post go? Must be nice to be a Greenie, you get to delete when you feel like it and leave no trace. Nice Bill, real nice. To those left scratching their heads, BillVon wrote a lengthy post comparing the Civil War and the Confederate states to the Talaban as well as calling the Confederate soldiers terrorists, the same as those who flew an airplane into the WTC. I responded, but apparently Bill realized how bad his opinion sounded so he deleted his post in such a manner not leaving his post previous to my reply. Where as normal posters when the do as such, it leaves a post but text that it was deleted. Must be nice to be one of the ones in power. Guess it won't matter since once Bill sees these posts he'll probably delete them and/or ban me, since it makes him look bad even though its the truth.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #72 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat's equivalent, nowadays, to someone not being ashamed that their relatives flew aircraft into the WTC. The southerners of yesteryear were considered the same way we consider terrorists today Jesus, I'm going to have put on my waist high boots to wade though this bullshit. Apparently you bought into the post Lincoln reconstruction view of the South. It was United States citizens that disagreed with what could happen to them, then the Union government basically told them all to fuck off. Look at the election results in which Lincoln won, how many ballots below the mason-dixion line was old Abe in? How many southern states voted for him? What about the changes that was trying to be made without the southern influence? I keep getting surprised at how you percieve history and leave out important details. I'm also fairly offended at your comparison between the Civil War and the terrorists the US is currently fighting. Its a stereotype liberal arguement, all emotion, no facts. I agree, anyone who place the Confederacy in the same boat with terrorist need to do some simple research on the true reasons why they did what they did. In my view, the men and women who fought against the over reaching arm of the Federal Government were some of bravest men and women. They fought to protect the Articles of Confederation. If you are unaware of what it is, here it is: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Articles of Confederation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union -- 1777 To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names, send greeting. Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, did, on the 15th day of November, in the Year of Our Lord One thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America, agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New-hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina, and Georgia in the words following, viz. "Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New-hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina and Georgia". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article I. The Stile of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article III. The said states hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defence, the security of their Liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretence whatever. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article IV. The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these states, paupers, vagabonds and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states; and the people of each state shall have free ingress and regress to and from any other state, and shall enjoy therein all the privileges of trade and commerce, subject to the same duties impositions and restrictions as the inhabitants thereof respectively, provided that such restriction shall not extend so far as to prevent the removal of property imported into any state, to any other state, of which the Owner is an inhabitant; provided also that no imposition, duties or restriction shall be laid by any state, on the property of the united states, or either of them. If any Person guilty of, or charged with treason, felony, - or other high misdemeanor in any state, shall flee from Justice, and be found in any of the united states, he shall, upon demand of the Governor or executive power, of the state from which he fled, be delivered up and removed to the state having jurisdiction of his offence. Full faith and credit shall be given in each of these states to the records, acts and judicial proceedings of the courts and magistrates of every other state. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article V. For the more convenient management of the general interests of the united states, delegates shall be annually appointed in such manner as the legislature of each state shall direct, to meet in Congress on the first Monday in November, in every year, with a power reserved to each state, to recal its delegates, or any of them, at any time within the year, and to send others in their stead, for the remainder of the Year. No state shall be represented in Congress by less than two, nor by more than seven Members; and no person shall be capable of being a delegate for more than three years in any term of six years; nor shall any person, being a delegate, be capable of holding any office under the united states, for which he, or another for his benefit receives any salary, fees or emolument of any kind. Each state shall maintain its own delegates in a meeting of the states, and while they act as members of the committee of the states. In determining questions in the united states in Congress assembled, each state shall have one vote. Freedom of speech and debate in Congress shall not be impeached or questioned in any Court, or place out of Congress, and the members of congress shall be protected in their persons from arrests and imprisonments, during the time of their going to and from, and attendance on congress, except for treason, felony, or breach of the peace. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VI. No state, without the Consent of the united states in congress assembled, shall send any embassy to, or receive any embassy from, or enter into any conference agreement, alliance or treaty with any King prince or state; nor shall any person holding any office of profit or trust under the united states, or any of them, accept of any present, emolument, office or title of any kind whatever from any king, prince or foreign state; nor shall the united states in congress assembled, or any of them, grant any title of nobility. No two or more states shall enter into any treaty, confederation or alliance whatever between them, without the consent of the united states in congress assembled, specifying accurately the purposes for which the same is to be entered into, and how long it shall continue. No state shall lay any imposts or duties, which may interfere with any stipulations in treaties, entered into by the united states in congress assembled, with any king, prince or state, in pursuance of any treaties already proposed by congress, to the courts of France and Spain. No vessels of war shall be kept up in time of peace by any state, except such number only, as shall be deemed necessary by the united states in congress assembled, for the defence of such state, or its trade; nor shall any body of forces be kept up by any state, in time of peace, except such number only, as in the judgment of the united states, in congress assembled, shall be deemed requisite to garrison the forts necessary for the defence of such state; but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No state shall engage in any war without the consent of the united states in congress assembled, unless such state be actually invaded by enemies, or shall have received certain advice of a resolution being formed by some nation of Indians to invade such state, and the danger is so imminent as not to admit of a delay till the united states in congress assembled can be consulted: nor shall any state grant commissions to any ships or vessels of war, nor letters of marque or reprisal, except it be after a declaration of war by the united states in congress assembled, and then only against the kingdom or state and the subjects thereof, against which war has been so declared, and under such regulations as shall be established by the united states in congress assembled, unless such state be infested by pirates, in which case vessels of war may be fitted out for that occasion, and kept so long as the danger shall continue, or until the united states in congress assembled, shall determine otherwise. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VII. When land-forces are raised by any state for the common defence, all officers of or under the rank of colonel, shall be appointed by the legislature of each state respectively, by whom such forces shall be raised, or in such manner as such state shall direct, and all vacancies shall be filled up by the State which first made the appointment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VIII. All charges of war, and all other expences that shall be incurred for the common defence or general welfare, and allowed by the united states in congress assembled, shall be def rayed out of a common treasury, which shall be supplied by the several states in proportion to the value of all land within each state, granted to or surveyed for any Person, as such land and the buildings and improvements thereon shall be estimated according to such mode as the united states in congress assembled, shall from time to time direct and appoint. The taxes for paying that proportion shall be laid and levied by the authority and direction of the legislatures of the several states within the time agreed upon by the united states in congress assembled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article IX. The united states in congress assembled, shall have the sole and exclusive right and power of determining on peace and war, except in the cases mentioned in the sixth article -- of sending and receiving ambassadors -- entering into treaties and alliances, provided that no treaty of commerce shall be made whereby the legislative power of the respective states shall be restrained from imposing such imposts and duties on foreigners as their own people are subjected to, or from prohibiting the exportation or importation of any species of goods or commodities, whatsoever -- of establishing rules for deciding in all cases, what captures on land or water shall be legal, and in what manner prizes taken by land or naval forces in the service of the united states shall be divided or appropriated -- of granting letters of marque and reprisal in times of peace -- appointing courts for the trial of piracies and felonies committed on the high seas and establishing courts for receiving and determining finally appeals in all cases of captures, provided that no member of congress shall be appointed a judge of any of the said courts. The united states in congress assembled shall also be the last resort on appeal in all disputes and differences now subsisting or that hereafter may arise between two or more states concerning boundary, jurisdiction or any other cause whatever; which authority shall always be exercised in the manner following. Whenever the legislative or executive authority or lawful agent of any state in controversy with another shall present a petition to congress stating the matter in question and praying for a hearing, notice thereof shall be given by order of congress to the legislative or executive authority of the other state in controversy, and a day assigned for the appearance of the parties by their lawful agents, who shall then be directed to appoint by joint consent, commissioners or judges to constitute a court for hearing and determining the matter in question: but if they cannot agree, congress shall name three persons out of each of the united states, and from the list of such persons each party shall alternately strike out one, the petitioners beginning, until the number shall be reduced to thirteen; and from that number not less than seven, nor more than nine names as congress shall direct, shall in the presence of congress be drawn out by lot, and the persons whose names shall be so drawn or any five of them, shall be commissioners or judges, to hear and finally determine the controversy, so always as a major part of the judges who shall hear the cause shall agree in the determination: and if either party shall neglect to attend at the day appointed, without showing reasons, which congress shall judge sufficient, or being present shall refuse to strike, the congress shall proceed to nominate three persons out of each state, and the secretary of congress shall strike in behalf of such party absent or refusing; and the judgment and sentence of the court to be appointed, in the manner before prescribed, shall be final and conclusive; and if any of the parties shall refuse to submit to the authority of such court, or to appear or defend their claim or cause, the court shall nevertheless proceed to pronounce sentence, or judgment, which shall in like manner be final and decisive, the judgment or sentence and other proceedings being in either case transmitted to congress, and lodged among the acts of congress for the security of the parties concerned: provided that every commissioner, before he sits in judgment, shall take an oath to be administered by one of the judges of the supreme or superior court of the state, where the cause shall be tried, "well and truly to hear and determine the matter in question, according to the best of his judgment, without favour, affection or hope of reward:" provided also, that no state shall be deprived of territory for the benefit of the united states. All controversies concerning the private right of soil claimed under different grants of two or more states, whose jurisdictions as they may respect such lands, and the states which passed such grants are adjusted, the said grants or either of them being at the same time claimed to have originated antecedent to such settlement of jurisdiction, shall on the petition of either party to the congress of the united states, be finally determined as near as may be in the same manner as is before prescribed for deciding disputes respecting territorial jurisdiction between different states. The united states in congress assembled shall also have the sole and exclusive right and power of regulating the alloy and value of coin struck by their own authority, or by that of the respective states -- fixing the standard of weights and measures throughout the united states -- regulating the trade and managing all affairs with the Indians, not members of any of the states, provided that the legislative right of any state within its own limits be not infringed or violated -- establishing or regulating post offices from one state to another, throughout all the united states, and exacting such postage on the papers passing thro' the same as may be requisite to defray the expences of the said office -- appointing all officers of the land forces, in the service of the united states, excepting regimental officers -- appointing all the officers of the naval forces, and commissioning all officers whatever in the service of the united states -- making rules for the government and regulation of the said land and naval forces, and directing their operations. The united states in congress assembled shall have authority to appoint a committee, to sit in the recess of congress, to be denominated "A Committee of the States," and to consist of one delegate from each state; and to appoint such other committees and civil officers as may be necessary for managing the general affairs of the united states under their direction -- to appoint one of their number to preside, provided that no person be allowed to serve in the office of president more than one year in any term of three years; to ascertain the necessary sums of money to be raised for the service of the united states, and to appropriate and apply the same for defraying the public expences to borrow money, or emit bills on the credit of the united states, transmitting every half year to the respective states an account of the sums of money so borrowed or emitted, -- to build and equip a navy -- to agree upon the number of land forces, and to make requisitions from each state for its quota, in proportion to the number of white inhabitants in such state; which requisition shall be binding, and thereupon the legislature of each state shall appoint the regimental officers, raise the men and cloth, arm and equip them in a soldier like manner, at the expence of the united states; and the officers and men so cloathed, armed and quipped shall march to the place appointed, and within the time agreed on by the united states in congress assembled: But if the united states in congress assembled shall, on consideration of circumstances judge proper that any state should not raise men, or should raise a smaller number than its quota, and that any other state should raise a greater number of men than the quota thereof, such extra number shall be raised, officered, cloathed, armed and equipped in the same manner as the quota of such state, unless the legislature of such sta te shall judge that such extra number cannot be safely spared out of the same, in which case they shall raise officer, cloath, arm and equip as many of such extra number as they judge can be safely spared. And the officers and men so cloathed, armed and equipped, shall march to the place appointed, and within the time agreed on by the united states in congress assembled. The united states in congress assembled shall never engage in a war, nor grant letters of marque and reprisal in time of peace, nor enter into any treaties or alliances, nor coin money, nor regulate the value thereof, nor ascertain the sums and expences necessary for the defence and welfare of the united states, or any of them, nor emit bills, nor borrow money on the credit of the united states, nor appropriate money, nor agree upon the number of vessels of war, to be built or purchased, or the number of land or sea forces to be raised, nor appoint a commander in chief of the army or navy, unless nine states assent to the same: nor shall a question on any other point, except for adjourning from day to day be determined, unless by the votes of a majority of the united states in congress assembled. The congress of the united states shall have power to adjourn to any time within the year, and to any place within the united states, so that no period of adjournment be for a longer duration than the space of six Months, and shall publish the Journal of their proceedings monthly, except such parts thereof relating to treaties, alliances or military operations, as in their judgment require secrecy; and the yeas and nays of the delegates of each state on any question shall be entered on the Journal, when it is desired by any delegate; and the delegates of a state, or any of them, at his or their request shall be furnished with a transcript of the said Journal, except such parts as are above excepted, to lay before the legislatures of the several states. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article X. The committee of the states, or any nine of them, shall be authorized to execute, in the recess of congress, such of the powers of congress as the united states in congress assembled, by the consent of nine states, shall from time to time think expedient to vest them with; provided that no power be delegated to the said committee, for the exercise of which, by the articles of confederation, the voice of nine states in the congress of the united states assembled is requisite. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XI. Canada acceding to this confederation, and joining in the measures of the united states, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this union: but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine states. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XII. All bills of credit emitted, monies borrowed and debts contracted by, or under the authority of congress, before the assembling of the united states, in pursuance of the present confederation, shall be deemed and considered as a charge against the united states, for payment and satisfaction whereof the said united states, and the public faith are hereby solemnly pledged. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XIII. Every state shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state. And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said articles of confederation and perpetual union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that pur pose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said articles of confederation and perpetual union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained: And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said confederation are submitted to them. And that the articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the states we respectively represent, and that the union shall be perpetual. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the state of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord one Thousand seven Hundred and Seventy-eight, and in the third year of the independence of America. On the part of & behalf of the State of New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett John Wentworth. Junr; August 8th, 1778 On the part and behalf of the State of Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations: William Ellery Henry Marchant John Collins On the part and behalf of the State of New York: Jas Duane Fra: Lewis Wm Duer Gouvr Morris On the part and behalf of the State of Pennsylvania: Robert Morris Daniel Roberdeau Jon. Bayard Smith William Clingar Joseph Reed; 22d July, 1778 On the part and behalf of the State of Maryland: John Hanson; March 1, 1781 Daniel Carroll, do. On the part and behalf of the State of North Carolina: John Penn; July 21st, 1778 Corns Harnett Jno Williams On the part and behalf of the State of Georgia: Jno Walton; 24th July, 1778 Edwd Telfair Edwd Langworthy On the part of & behalf of the State of Massachusetts Bay: John Hancock Samuel Adams Elbridge Gerry Francis Dana James Lovell Samuel Holten On the part and behalf of the State of Connecticut: Roger Sherman Samuel Huntington Oliver Wolcott Titus Hosmer Andrew Adams On the Part and in Behalf of the State of New Jersey, November 26th, 1778: Jno Witherspoon Nathl Scudder On the part and behalf of the State of Delaware: Thos McKean; Febr 22d, 1779 John Dickinson; May 5th, 1779 Nicholas Van Dyke On the part and behalf of the State of Virginia: Richard Henry Lee John Banister Thomas Adams Jno Harvie Francis Lightfoot Lee On the part and behalf of the State of South Carolina: Henry Laurens William Henry Drayton Jno Mathews Richd Hutson Thos Heyward, junr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to Tom Kindig for the electronic text of this document -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOCUMENTS OF FREEDOM The Letter of Columbus to Luis De Sant Angel Announcing His Discovery The Mayflower Compact The Declaration of Independence Articles of Confederation Constitution of the United States Bill of Rights and Later Amendments Washington's Farewell Address The Monroe Doctrine The Star Spangled Banner The Gettysburg Address The American's Creed The Pledge of Allegiance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ushistory.org home Copyright © 1995-2005 by the Independence Hall Association"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #73 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteCheck out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? You know, of all the ones I know, they're all liberals...hard-core liberals, fairly extreme in their beliefs. Is that a TX definition of liberal or a rest of the world definition of liberal? The thing I like most about texans is that they tend to stay in Texas. jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crwtom 0 #74 June 29, 2005 Quote I also noticed that most people who think they are educated are liberals. Check out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? at least, that was my experience from college. Is there really evidence that (undergraduate) college students as a group are significantly more liberal than the general population of the same age ? Skimming through a bunch of polls as well as gathering my impressions at a very large University makes me think NO . Of course, as you climb up the academic ladder (graduate, post-doctoral, regular faculty) you will find less and less friends of, for example, the current administration. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #75 June 29, 2005 QuoteMost liberals I know are very well educated (having graduate degrees, etc.). One on my teachers (Nurse Practitioner and a PHD) is an extreme liberal She told the class a few weeks ago that Columbus came to America on the, Pinto, Niya, and Santadomingo to escape religious persicution. YIKES"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
diverborg 0 #65 June 29, 2005 QuoteI also noticed that most people who think they are educated are liberals. Check out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? Amen, I'm glad to hear someone say that. I went to two different state colleges, and it was just ridiculous. These kids take a few classes and think they know how the world works. The professors I encountered were so biased, the kids were just damn near brainwashed into their opinion. You've got to keep in mind that most professors haven't succeeded in their field, or they've just been schooled to go on to school others (referring mostly to humanities and english) They've got nothing better to do than to vent their frustrations with society or keep on pushing the same ideals that they were pushed. LIBERALISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW YOU WERE EDUCATED, BUT WITH HOW YOU WERE SCHOOLED. I think any person who has lived and worked in the real world and knows how to become successful has a much better idea of how the world works than some college student. AND YES I DO HAVE A DEGREE FROM A LIBERAL STATE COLLEGE, AND I'M WORKING ON ANOTHER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirage63 0 #66 June 29, 2005 Quote No, I get it, I just think that you're not a very good troll. It was a decent idea for a trolling post, to get people riled up and such, you just don't know how to troll very well LOL-I have to agree, it's a troll BUT Val get's 62 responses so you have to give it a "good troll" score! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #67 June 29, 2005 I have the Stars and Bars tattooed on my arm and I am not a racist. My ancestors fought for the Confederacy. The intent to leave thw Union was all about restoring power back to the States and taking that power from the Federal Government. So many people only hear about slavery when anything of the South is discussed. Little known fact is that slave holding companies were mostly in the North whom sold to the South (a great number of Northerners also held slaves). Little known fact is that Jefferson Davis wished to abolish slavery in the South. His intent was to intergrate them into society through educating them first. The emancipation did more harm than good. After the slaves were "freed" they faced more problems as very few in the North actually gave a damn about them. True, he also held slaves whom he considered employees. His own slaves were payed the same has anyone else. He also educated his employees and gave them land. They were also free to leave anytime they wished. Little known fact is that the KKK ( ya want to outlaw something, outlaw these fuckheads) did not start waving the Stars and Bars untill the 1960's. Up untill then they waved (and still do) the American flag. I am not at all ashamed that my forefathers fought for the South. There are some folks here in Missouri (the 13th star on the Stars and Bars, St. Andrews Cross) whom wish to outlaw my flag and keep me from flying it. Drive around here and you will find the Stars and Bars flying proudly in a great number of yards. Along side it you will also find my other flag, the Stars and Stripes."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #68 June 29, 2005 QuoteAnd interestingly enough, it's been the hard-core conservatives that I've asked who didn't know. Some Aryan Nations types might have researched it extensively to validate it, but, well, most of the hard-core conservatives would rather not be associated with them. It's also a traditional Native American emblem (we had a piano bench cover with swastikas all over it for years). Wendy W. The Navajo Indian viewed it as a sun symbol. It was also used in ancient Troy and Myaceane culture as a good luck symbol. It first reached Germany in the 1870's or so when a German archeoligist brought it back after a dig somewhere in the middle east. What is shameful is how some ( Nazi's, KKK) take a symbol and twist it into something that represents evil intent."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #69 June 29, 2005 QuoteBefore you get into graduate school you need a BS degree Well, that's not always true... there are several 5-year programs that skip the BS (no pun intended)... Architecture is a prime example... and you left out all the folks that get BA's too... Besides, like you mentioned, how many remember anything after the last final... I come across lots of folks that are educated beyond there intelligence. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #70 June 29, 2005 QuoteThat's equivalent, nowadays, to someone not being ashamed that their relatives flew aircraft into the WTC. The southerners of yesteryear were considered the same way we consider terrorists today Jesus, I'm going to have put on my waist high boots to wade though this bullshit. Apparently you bought into the post Lincoln reconstruction view of the South. It was United States citizens that disagreed with what could happen to them, then the Union government basically told them all to fuck off. Look at the election results in which Lincoln won, how many ballots below the mason-dixion line was old Abe in? How many southern states voted for him? What about the changes that was trying to be made without the southern influence? I keep getting surprised at how you percieve history and leave out important details. I'm also fairly offended at your comparison between the Civil War and the terrorists the US is currently fighting. Its a stereotype liberal arguement, all emotion, no facts.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #71 June 29, 2005 Bill, Where did your post go? Must be nice to be a Greenie, you get to delete when you feel like it and leave no trace. Nice Bill, real nice. To those left scratching their heads, BillVon wrote a lengthy post comparing the Civil War and the Confederate states to the Talaban as well as calling the Confederate soldiers terrorists, the same as those who flew an airplane into the WTC. I responded, but apparently Bill realized how bad his opinion sounded so he deleted his post in such a manner not leaving his post previous to my reply. Where as normal posters when the do as such, it leaves a post but text that it was deleted. Must be nice to be one of the ones in power. Guess it won't matter since once Bill sees these posts he'll probably delete them and/or ban me, since it makes him look bad even though its the truth.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #72 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat's equivalent, nowadays, to someone not being ashamed that their relatives flew aircraft into the WTC. The southerners of yesteryear were considered the same way we consider terrorists today Jesus, I'm going to have put on my waist high boots to wade though this bullshit. Apparently you bought into the post Lincoln reconstruction view of the South. It was United States citizens that disagreed with what could happen to them, then the Union government basically told them all to fuck off. Look at the election results in which Lincoln won, how many ballots below the mason-dixion line was old Abe in? How many southern states voted for him? What about the changes that was trying to be made without the southern influence? I keep getting surprised at how you percieve history and leave out important details. I'm also fairly offended at your comparison between the Civil War and the terrorists the US is currently fighting. Its a stereotype liberal arguement, all emotion, no facts. I agree, anyone who place the Confederacy in the same boat with terrorist need to do some simple research on the true reasons why they did what they did. In my view, the men and women who fought against the over reaching arm of the Federal Government were some of bravest men and women. They fought to protect the Articles of Confederation. If you are unaware of what it is, here it is: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Articles of Confederation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union -- 1777 To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names, send greeting. Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, did, on the 15th day of November, in the Year of Our Lord One thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America, agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New-hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina, and Georgia in the words following, viz. "Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New-hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina and Georgia". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article I. The Stile of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article III. The said states hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defence, the security of their Liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretence whatever. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article IV. The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these states, paupers, vagabonds and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states; and the people of each state shall have free ingress and regress to and from any other state, and shall enjoy therein all the privileges of trade and commerce, subject to the same duties impositions and restrictions as the inhabitants thereof respectively, provided that such restriction shall not extend so far as to prevent the removal of property imported into any state, to any other state, of which the Owner is an inhabitant; provided also that no imposition, duties or restriction shall be laid by any state, on the property of the united states, or either of them. If any Person guilty of, or charged with treason, felony, - or other high misdemeanor in any state, shall flee from Justice, and be found in any of the united states, he shall, upon demand of the Governor or executive power, of the state from which he fled, be delivered up and removed to the state having jurisdiction of his offence. Full faith and credit shall be given in each of these states to the records, acts and judicial proceedings of the courts and magistrates of every other state. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article V. For the more convenient management of the general interests of the united states, delegates shall be annually appointed in such manner as the legislature of each state shall direct, to meet in Congress on the first Monday in November, in every year, with a power reserved to each state, to recal its delegates, or any of them, at any time within the year, and to send others in their stead, for the remainder of the Year. No state shall be represented in Congress by less than two, nor by more than seven Members; and no person shall be capable of being a delegate for more than three years in any term of six years; nor shall any person, being a delegate, be capable of holding any office under the united states, for which he, or another for his benefit receives any salary, fees or emolument of any kind. Each state shall maintain its own delegates in a meeting of the states, and while they act as members of the committee of the states. In determining questions in the united states in Congress assembled, each state shall have one vote. Freedom of speech and debate in Congress shall not be impeached or questioned in any Court, or place out of Congress, and the members of congress shall be protected in their persons from arrests and imprisonments, during the time of their going to and from, and attendance on congress, except for treason, felony, or breach of the peace. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VI. No state, without the Consent of the united states in congress assembled, shall send any embassy to, or receive any embassy from, or enter into any conference agreement, alliance or treaty with any King prince or state; nor shall any person holding any office of profit or trust under the united states, or any of them, accept of any present, emolument, office or title of any kind whatever from any king, prince or foreign state; nor shall the united states in congress assembled, or any of them, grant any title of nobility. No two or more states shall enter into any treaty, confederation or alliance whatever between them, without the consent of the united states in congress assembled, specifying accurately the purposes for which the same is to be entered into, and how long it shall continue. No state shall lay any imposts or duties, which may interfere with any stipulations in treaties, entered into by the united states in congress assembled, with any king, prince or state, in pursuance of any treaties already proposed by congress, to the courts of France and Spain. No vessels of war shall be kept up in time of peace by any state, except such number only, as shall be deemed necessary by the united states in congress assembled, for the defence of such state, or its trade; nor shall any body of forces be kept up by any state, in time of peace, except such number only, as in the judgment of the united states, in congress assembled, shall be deemed requisite to garrison the forts necessary for the defence of such state; but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No state shall engage in any war without the consent of the united states in congress assembled, unless such state be actually invaded by enemies, or shall have received certain advice of a resolution being formed by some nation of Indians to invade such state, and the danger is so imminent as not to admit of a delay till the united states in congress assembled can be consulted: nor shall any state grant commissions to any ships or vessels of war, nor letters of marque or reprisal, except it be after a declaration of war by the united states in congress assembled, and then only against the kingdom or state and the subjects thereof, against which war has been so declared, and under such regulations as shall be established by the united states in congress assembled, unless such state be infested by pirates, in which case vessels of war may be fitted out for that occasion, and kept so long as the danger shall continue, or until the united states in congress assembled, shall determine otherwise. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VII. When land-forces are raised by any state for the common defence, all officers of or under the rank of colonel, shall be appointed by the legislature of each state respectively, by whom such forces shall be raised, or in such manner as such state shall direct, and all vacancies shall be filled up by the State which first made the appointment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VIII. All charges of war, and all other expences that shall be incurred for the common defence or general welfare, and allowed by the united states in congress assembled, shall be def rayed out of a common treasury, which shall be supplied by the several states in proportion to the value of all land within each state, granted to or surveyed for any Person, as such land and the buildings and improvements thereon shall be estimated according to such mode as the united states in congress assembled, shall from time to time direct and appoint. The taxes for paying that proportion shall be laid and levied by the authority and direction of the legislatures of the several states within the time agreed upon by the united states in congress assembled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article IX. The united states in congress assembled, shall have the sole and exclusive right and power of determining on peace and war, except in the cases mentioned in the sixth article -- of sending and receiving ambassadors -- entering into treaties and alliances, provided that no treaty of commerce shall be made whereby the legislative power of the respective states shall be restrained from imposing such imposts and duties on foreigners as their own people are subjected to, or from prohibiting the exportation or importation of any species of goods or commodities, whatsoever -- of establishing rules for deciding in all cases, what captures on land or water shall be legal, and in what manner prizes taken by land or naval forces in the service of the united states shall be divided or appropriated -- of granting letters of marque and reprisal in times of peace -- appointing courts for the trial of piracies and felonies committed on the high seas and establishing courts for receiving and determining finally appeals in all cases of captures, provided that no member of congress shall be appointed a judge of any of the said courts. The united states in congress assembled shall also be the last resort on appeal in all disputes and differences now subsisting or that hereafter may arise between two or more states concerning boundary, jurisdiction or any other cause whatever; which authority shall always be exercised in the manner following. Whenever the legislative or executive authority or lawful agent of any state in controversy with another shall present a petition to congress stating the matter in question and praying for a hearing, notice thereof shall be given by order of congress to the legislative or executive authority of the other state in controversy, and a day assigned for the appearance of the parties by their lawful agents, who shall then be directed to appoint by joint consent, commissioners or judges to constitute a court for hearing and determining the matter in question: but if they cannot agree, congress shall name three persons out of each of the united states, and from the list of such persons each party shall alternately strike out one, the petitioners beginning, until the number shall be reduced to thirteen; and from that number not less than seven, nor more than nine names as congress shall direct, shall in the presence of congress be drawn out by lot, and the persons whose names shall be so drawn or any five of them, shall be commissioners or judges, to hear and finally determine the controversy, so always as a major part of the judges who shall hear the cause shall agree in the determination: and if either party shall neglect to attend at the day appointed, without showing reasons, which congress shall judge sufficient, or being present shall refuse to strike, the congress shall proceed to nominate three persons out of each state, and the secretary of congress shall strike in behalf of such party absent or refusing; and the judgment and sentence of the court to be appointed, in the manner before prescribed, shall be final and conclusive; and if any of the parties shall refuse to submit to the authority of such court, or to appear or defend their claim or cause, the court shall nevertheless proceed to pronounce sentence, or judgment, which shall in like manner be final and decisive, the judgment or sentence and other proceedings being in either case transmitted to congress, and lodged among the acts of congress for the security of the parties concerned: provided that every commissioner, before he sits in judgment, shall take an oath to be administered by one of the judges of the supreme or superior court of the state, where the cause shall be tried, "well and truly to hear and determine the matter in question, according to the best of his judgment, without favour, affection or hope of reward:" provided also, that no state shall be deprived of territory for the benefit of the united states. All controversies concerning the private right of soil claimed under different grants of two or more states, whose jurisdictions as they may respect such lands, and the states which passed such grants are adjusted, the said grants or either of them being at the same time claimed to have originated antecedent to such settlement of jurisdiction, shall on the petition of either party to the congress of the united states, be finally determined as near as may be in the same manner as is before prescribed for deciding disputes respecting territorial jurisdiction between different states. The united states in congress assembled shall also have the sole and exclusive right and power of regulating the alloy and value of coin struck by their own authority, or by that of the respective states -- fixing the standard of weights and measures throughout the united states -- regulating the trade and managing all affairs with the Indians, not members of any of the states, provided that the legislative right of any state within its own limits be not infringed or violated -- establishing or regulating post offices from one state to another, throughout all the united states, and exacting such postage on the papers passing thro' the same as may be requisite to defray the expences of the said office -- appointing all officers of the land forces, in the service of the united states, excepting regimental officers -- appointing all the officers of the naval forces, and commissioning all officers whatever in the service of the united states -- making rules for the government and regulation of the said land and naval forces, and directing their operations. The united states in congress assembled shall have authority to appoint a committee, to sit in the recess of congress, to be denominated "A Committee of the States," and to consist of one delegate from each state; and to appoint such other committees and civil officers as may be necessary for managing the general affairs of the united states under their direction -- to appoint one of their number to preside, provided that no person be allowed to serve in the office of president more than one year in any term of three years; to ascertain the necessary sums of money to be raised for the service of the united states, and to appropriate and apply the same for defraying the public expences to borrow money, or emit bills on the credit of the united states, transmitting every half year to the respective states an account of the sums of money so borrowed or emitted, -- to build and equip a navy -- to agree upon the number of land forces, and to make requisitions from each state for its quota, in proportion to the number of white inhabitants in such state; which requisition shall be binding, and thereupon the legislature of each state shall appoint the regimental officers, raise the men and cloth, arm and equip them in a soldier like manner, at the expence of the united states; and the officers and men so cloathed, armed and quipped shall march to the place appointed, and within the time agreed on by the united states in congress assembled: But if the united states in congress assembled shall, on consideration of circumstances judge proper that any state should not raise men, or should raise a smaller number than its quota, and that any other state should raise a greater number of men than the quota thereof, such extra number shall be raised, officered, cloathed, armed and equipped in the same manner as the quota of such state, unless the legislature of such sta te shall judge that such extra number cannot be safely spared out of the same, in which case they shall raise officer, cloath, arm and equip as many of such extra number as they judge can be safely spared. And the officers and men so cloathed, armed and equipped, shall march to the place appointed, and within the time agreed on by the united states in congress assembled. The united states in congress assembled shall never engage in a war, nor grant letters of marque and reprisal in time of peace, nor enter into any treaties or alliances, nor coin money, nor regulate the value thereof, nor ascertain the sums and expences necessary for the defence and welfare of the united states, or any of them, nor emit bills, nor borrow money on the credit of the united states, nor appropriate money, nor agree upon the number of vessels of war, to be built or purchased, or the number of land or sea forces to be raised, nor appoint a commander in chief of the army or navy, unless nine states assent to the same: nor shall a question on any other point, except for adjourning from day to day be determined, unless by the votes of a majority of the united states in congress assembled. The congress of the united states shall have power to adjourn to any time within the year, and to any place within the united states, so that no period of adjournment be for a longer duration than the space of six Months, and shall publish the Journal of their proceedings monthly, except such parts thereof relating to treaties, alliances or military operations, as in their judgment require secrecy; and the yeas and nays of the delegates of each state on any question shall be entered on the Journal, when it is desired by any delegate; and the delegates of a state, or any of them, at his or their request shall be furnished with a transcript of the said Journal, except such parts as are above excepted, to lay before the legislatures of the several states. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article X. The committee of the states, or any nine of them, shall be authorized to execute, in the recess of congress, such of the powers of congress as the united states in congress assembled, by the consent of nine states, shall from time to time think expedient to vest them with; provided that no power be delegated to the said committee, for the exercise of which, by the articles of confederation, the voice of nine states in the congress of the united states assembled is requisite. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XI. Canada acceding to this confederation, and joining in the measures of the united states, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this union: but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine states. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XII. All bills of credit emitted, monies borrowed and debts contracted by, or under the authority of congress, before the assembling of the united states, in pursuance of the present confederation, shall be deemed and considered as a charge against the united states, for payment and satisfaction whereof the said united states, and the public faith are hereby solemnly pledged. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XIII. Every state shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state. And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said articles of confederation and perpetual union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that pur pose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said articles of confederation and perpetual union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained: And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said confederation are submitted to them. And that the articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the states we respectively represent, and that the union shall be perpetual. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the state of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord one Thousand seven Hundred and Seventy-eight, and in the third year of the independence of America. On the part of & behalf of the State of New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett John Wentworth. Junr; August 8th, 1778 On the part and behalf of the State of Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations: William Ellery Henry Marchant John Collins On the part and behalf of the State of New York: Jas Duane Fra: Lewis Wm Duer Gouvr Morris On the part and behalf of the State of Pennsylvania: Robert Morris Daniel Roberdeau Jon. Bayard Smith William Clingar Joseph Reed; 22d July, 1778 On the part and behalf of the State of Maryland: John Hanson; March 1, 1781 Daniel Carroll, do. On the part and behalf of the State of North Carolina: John Penn; July 21st, 1778 Corns Harnett Jno Williams On the part and behalf of the State of Georgia: Jno Walton; 24th July, 1778 Edwd Telfair Edwd Langworthy On the part of & behalf of the State of Massachusetts Bay: John Hancock Samuel Adams Elbridge Gerry Francis Dana James Lovell Samuel Holten On the part and behalf of the State of Connecticut: Roger Sherman Samuel Huntington Oliver Wolcott Titus Hosmer Andrew Adams On the Part and in Behalf of the State of New Jersey, November 26th, 1778: Jno Witherspoon Nathl Scudder On the part and behalf of the State of Delaware: Thos McKean; Febr 22d, 1779 John Dickinson; May 5th, 1779 Nicholas Van Dyke On the part and behalf of the State of Virginia: Richard Henry Lee John Banister Thomas Adams Jno Harvie Francis Lightfoot Lee On the part and behalf of the State of South Carolina: Henry Laurens William Henry Drayton Jno Mathews Richd Hutson Thos Heyward, junr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to Tom Kindig for the electronic text of this document -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOCUMENTS OF FREEDOM The Letter of Columbus to Luis De Sant Angel Announcing His Discovery The Mayflower Compact The Declaration of Independence Articles of Confederation Constitution of the United States Bill of Rights and Later Amendments Washington's Farewell Address The Monroe Doctrine The Star Spangled Banner The Gettysburg Address The American's Creed The Pledge of Allegiance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ushistory.org home Copyright © 1995-2005 by the Independence Hall Association"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." 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jenfly00 0 #73 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteCheck out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? You know, of all the ones I know, they're all liberals...hard-core liberals, fairly extreme in their beliefs. Is that a TX definition of liberal or a rest of the world definition of liberal? The thing I like most about texans is that they tend to stay in Texas. jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #74 June 29, 2005 Quote I also noticed that most people who think they are educated are liberals. Check out most kids in college, who aren't very well educated, and see where their politics lie. How's that one? at least, that was my experience from college. Is there really evidence that (undergraduate) college students as a group are significantly more liberal than the general population of the same age ? Skimming through a bunch of polls as well as gathering my impressions at a very large University makes me think NO . Of course, as you climb up the academic ladder (graduate, post-doctoral, regular faculty) you will find less and less friends of, for example, the current administration. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #75 June 29, 2005 QuoteMost liberals I know are very well educated (having graduate degrees, etc.). One on my teachers (Nurse Practitioner and a PHD) is an extreme liberal She told the class a few weeks ago that Columbus came to America on the, Pinto, Niya, and Santadomingo to escape religious persicution. YIKES"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
