Ron 10 #251 July 5, 2005 QuoteI don't agree with polygamy because I think a marriage is between two people OK, but why then would you have a problem with people who think marriage is only between a man and a woman? Really its the same thing. You have a problem with how some define a marriage. Others have a problem with how you wish to define it. QuoteJust because I don't agree with something doesn't mean I'm going to protest it. (Not saying you would protest, I have no idea.) I don't agree with drugs, but I'm not going to hold it against someone because they enjoy it. If it starts to hurt me somehow or they start trying to push me into trying it, then I'll have a problem with it. I hold the same feelings....However, when forced to vote on legalization of drugs....Which way would you vote and why? Same thing. Most people are not going to bother to picket anything ever. Most will not go to a rally FOR OR AGAINST anything. But most do have an opinion, and when asked to vote on it will voice their opinion...even if it is just long enough to punch a card...They will then go back to their daily lives. The only thing I don't like about all of this is how some think that since you don't agree with "X" then you are evill or uncivilized. People do that all the time. "You are not for the war? What are you a terrorist?" "You are not for Gay marriage, what are you a homophobe?, a religious zelot?" Ask enough people their opinions....And you are sure to find something to get upset about. Quote This thread has gotten way out of control. I mean, who would want to marry a poodle?? They are so funny looking. Funny, but a valid line of thought. Once you start wanting to change a definition to suit your views, then you have to entertain the idea that others will want to change *your* definition to fit their views...even if you don't like them."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #252 July 5, 2005 QuoteThat's an excellent comparison. The salvation army did NOT force you into their beliefs while my husband and I are well known for forcing straight men to have sex with each other. so I have heard J/K however you are forcing me to supply gays with medical coverage if not i could see a law suit coming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #253 July 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don't agree with polygamy because I think a marriage is between two people. If a couple decides to invite another person (or people) into their relationship, that's fine with me as long as they aren't hurting anyone else or trying to push their ways on me. but do you think polygamy should be legal. I haven't thought about it before. My first instinct is to say no, it shouldn't be legal. But when I ask myself why not, I realize it's because I wouldn't do it and I don't like it. So, if it came to a vote, I'd probably vote yes, legalize it. If it isn't hurting other people or doesn't involve bad things with children, then why not? QuoteQuote I don't agree with drugs, but I'm not going to hold it against someone because they enjoy it kind of off topic Quote I don't agree with drugs, but I'm not going to hold it against someone because they enjoy it but if you knew the profits for the drugs were going to someone involved with terrorism would you still not have a problem? Or if they were jumping and going to be on your load? If I knew the profits were going to fund terrorism, then I would absolutely have a problem with it. But how do you know the money we spend at the dz isn't going to fund terrorism? (Of course it isn't, but that's my example.) If you knew the profits from what you enjoy doing (skydiving) are going to terrorism or kiddie porn or something equally terrible, would you have a problem with it? As for someone being on my load... I'm sure I have been in the plane with someone who was not sober. In fact, I know I have. If they aren't hurting me or my friends or family, if they aren't taking it into my home, if they aren't trying to force it on me, then I don't care. If they aren't posing a danger to me or the other jumpers in the plane, including the pilot, then I don't care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #254 July 5, 2005 >however you are forcing me to supply gays with medical coverage >if not i could see a law suit coming. You already have to supply gays, blacks, jews etc with medical coverage. I know, it's horrible, but generally employers aren't allowed to discriminate against employees based on race, sexual orientation, sex or religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #255 July 5, 2005 I was wondering when you were going to join us this morning, Ron. I don't have a problem with people haivng their own opinions and thoughts and definitions. My mom loves to tell me, "Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one." If asked to vote on the legalization of drugs, I'll vote no. Simply because that's my OPINION and choice. I never started this thread as a way to change people's opinions. Only to try to understand them and try to figure out why what someone does is so important to someone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #256 July 5, 2005 Quoteou already have to supply gays, blacks, jews etc with medical coverage. I know, it's horrible, but generally employers aren't allowed to discriminate against employees based on race, sexual orientation, sex or religion. it's not horrible, (quotas are) unlike the lefties I would hire the best man or lady for the job. However gays want to call marriage something it's not. I am not required by law to supply health coverage and would drop it before I would insure a gay "marriage" just as I would if polygamy would legalized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #257 July 5, 2005 QuoteI was wondering when you were going to join us this morning, Ron. see Ron I told ya she liked ya she was waiting for you LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #258 July 5, 2005 Ron knows I like him. It's no secret. Of course, I'm always anxious to read your replies, bodypilot90. At least I know I can get my blood pressure going just reading, and disagreeing with, some of your posts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #259 July 5, 2005 >However gays want to call marriage something it's not. No, they just want the same rights everyone else has. Sorta like blacks did back in the 1950's. >I am not required by law to supply health coverage and would drop it > before I would insure a gay "marriage" . . . . That's fine. Employees may also choose to work at a company that supports families, rather than one that does not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #260 July 5, 2005 Quote>However gays want to call marriage something it's not. No, they just want the same rights everyone else has. Sorta like blacks did back in the 1950's. >I am not required by law to supply health coverage and would drop it > before I would insure a gay "marriage" . . . . That's fine. Employees may also choose to work at a company that supports families, rather than one that does not. Yeah Billvon!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #261 July 5, 2005 QuoteIf I knew the profits were going to fund terrorism, then I would absolutely have a problem with it. But how do you know the money we spend at the dz isn't going to fund terrorism? (Of course it isn't, but that's my example.) If you knew the profits from what you enjoy doing (skydiving) are going to terrorism or kiddie porn or something equally terrible, would you have a problem with it? I would not jump at that dz for sure. Do some research you will find illegal drugs is a major funding source. Quote If they aren't posing a danger to me or the other jumpers in the plane, including the pilot, then I don't care. wouldn't the pilot be held responsible if a ramp check found a drunk or high skydiver? (not 100% sure on this but seems if a out of date reserve why not a drunk?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #262 July 5, 2005 QuoteNo, they just want the same rights everyone else has They have the SAME rights....They want *special* I am not allowed to marry a man either. Neither are you. However, we being male are free to marry any female that is willing. Again SAME."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #263 July 5, 2005 >They have the SAME rights....They want *special* >I am not allowed to marry a man either. Neither are you. People used the same arguments in the 1950's "Blacks aren't allowed to marry whites, and whites aren't allowed to marry blacks. Everyone is equal." Didn't fly then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpergirl 0 #264 July 5, 2005 Quote Quote If they aren't posing a danger to me or the other jumpers in the plane, including the pilot, then I don't care. wouldn't the pilot be held responsible if a ramp check found a drunk or high skydiver? (not 100% sure on this but seems if a out of date reserve why not a drunk?) I imagine you're probably right on that one, but I don't know either. Does that mean I shouldn't get in the plane with someone who has an out of date reserve? Should I check everyone I ride the plane with to see if they are sober and have an in date reserve card. That'll be a piece of cake! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #265 July 5, 2005 Quoteso now we have gay marriage and marrying poodles Why do some of you keep comparing gay marriage to marrying a poodle or a chimp (etc.)? Is that what you think of homosexuals, that they are more like poodles or chimps rather than human beings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #266 July 5, 2005 QuotePeople used the same arguments in the 1950's "Blacks aren't allowed to marry whites, and whites aren't allowed to marry blacks. Everyone is equal." Didn't fly then. You claimed they anted equal...They have equal..They want special. You may think that thats OK...Fine, but don't claim it is something its not."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #267 July 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteNo, they just want the same rights everyone else has They have the SAME rights....They want *special* I am not allowed to marry a man either. Neither are you. However, we being male are free to marry any female that is willing. Again SAME. The "same" rights would mean being able to marry who you choose to marry, assuming both (or all?) of you are consenting adults. As heterosexuals, we have that right; homosexuals do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #268 July 5, 2005 Quote>People used the same arguments in the 1950's "Blacks aren't allowed to marry whites, and whites aren't allowed to marry blacks. Everyone is equal." Didn't fly then. I'd be willing to bet some people in this discussion secretly long for the good old days. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #269 July 5, 2005 QuoteI'd be willing to bet some people in this discussion secretly long for the good old days. You mean when blacks were trying to push their lifestyle on the rest of the population? I wonder if homosexuality is as contagious as blackness. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #270 July 5, 2005 QuoteThe "same" rights would mean being able to marry who you choose to marry, assuming both (or all?) of you are consenting adults. As heterosexuals, we have that right; homosexuals do not. Hence they want *special* not equal. If you want to argue for them to have *special* rights....Please feel free. But don't claim its "equal" since it is clearly not."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpergirl 0 #271 July 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe "same" rights would mean being able to marry who you choose to marry, assuming both (or all?) of you are consenting adults. As heterosexuals, we have that right; homosexuals do not. Hence they want *special* not equal. If you want to argue for them to have *special* rights....Please feel free. But don't claim its "equal" since it is clearly not. Ron, I just don't see why you say "special" and not "equal." They are looking to be equal not above. They want the same rights and acknowledgement as a hetero couple would want for their relationship. Why is that "special?" It's not more special than me asking for acknowledgement of my relationship with a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #272 July 5, 2005 QuoteYou claimed they anted equal...They have equal..They want special. How is it special? If two consenting adults want the rights that come with being married why would anyone deny them that. It's not like everyone is jumping at the chance to get married. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #273 July 5, 2005 QuoteRon, I just don't see why you say "special" and not "equal." Equal they have, they have the same rights I do. I can marry a woman, so can any male. QuoteThey are looking to be equal not above I didn't say "better" I said "special". if a gay man wants to marry a gay man, then that is a right that is not currently there. Therfore if they want it, then it is a special right. However they claim that all they want is "equal"...They have EQUAL, they want special. QuoteWhy is that "special?" It's not more special than me asking for acknowledgement of my relationship with a man. It is different in that one is legal, and one is not. Again I have said time after time that you have to be careful what you ask for. They have equal, they want special. They have the EXACT same rights you or I do. They want something else....That makes it a special right. Now you can debate their rights all day long...But its not equal they want, they already have that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelel01 1 #274 July 5, 2005 It wouldn't be a special right if it were granted. If it were granted, then YOU would also be free to marry a man. Hence, it wouldn't be special. Just new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpergirl 0 #275 July 5, 2005 They want to equal right to marry who they choose. 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bodypilot90 0 #261 July 5, 2005 QuoteIf I knew the profits were going to fund terrorism, then I would absolutely have a problem with it. But how do you know the money we spend at the dz isn't going to fund terrorism? (Of course it isn't, but that's my example.) If you knew the profits from what you enjoy doing (skydiving) are going to terrorism or kiddie porn or something equally terrible, would you have a problem with it? I would not jump at that dz for sure. Do some research you will find illegal drugs is a major funding source. Quote If they aren't posing a danger to me or the other jumpers in the plane, including the pilot, then I don't care. wouldn't the pilot be held responsible if a ramp check found a drunk or high skydiver? (not 100% sure on this but seems if a out of date reserve why not a drunk?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #262 July 5, 2005 QuoteNo, they just want the same rights everyone else has They have the SAME rights....They want *special* I am not allowed to marry a man either. Neither are you. However, we being male are free to marry any female that is willing. Again SAME."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #263 July 5, 2005 >They have the SAME rights....They want *special* >I am not allowed to marry a man either. Neither are you. People used the same arguments in the 1950's "Blacks aren't allowed to marry whites, and whites aren't allowed to marry blacks. Everyone is equal." Didn't fly then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #264 July 5, 2005 Quote Quote If they aren't posing a danger to me or the other jumpers in the plane, including the pilot, then I don't care. wouldn't the pilot be held responsible if a ramp check found a drunk or high skydiver? (not 100% sure on this but seems if a out of date reserve why not a drunk?) I imagine you're probably right on that one, but I don't know either. Does that mean I shouldn't get in the plane with someone who has an out of date reserve? Should I check everyone I ride the plane with to see if they are sober and have an in date reserve card. That'll be a piece of cake! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #265 July 5, 2005 Quoteso now we have gay marriage and marrying poodles Why do some of you keep comparing gay marriage to marrying a poodle or a chimp (etc.)? Is that what you think of homosexuals, that they are more like poodles or chimps rather than human beings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #266 July 5, 2005 QuotePeople used the same arguments in the 1950's "Blacks aren't allowed to marry whites, and whites aren't allowed to marry blacks. Everyone is equal." Didn't fly then. You claimed they anted equal...They have equal..They want special. You may think that thats OK...Fine, but don't claim it is something its not."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #267 July 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteNo, they just want the same rights everyone else has They have the SAME rights....They want *special* I am not allowed to marry a man either. Neither are you. However, we being male are free to marry any female that is willing. Again SAME. The "same" rights would mean being able to marry who you choose to marry, assuming both (or all?) of you are consenting adults. As heterosexuals, we have that right; homosexuals do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #268 July 5, 2005 Quote>People used the same arguments in the 1950's "Blacks aren't allowed to marry whites, and whites aren't allowed to marry blacks. Everyone is equal." Didn't fly then. I'd be willing to bet some people in this discussion secretly long for the good old days. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #269 July 5, 2005 QuoteI'd be willing to bet some people in this discussion secretly long for the good old days. You mean when blacks were trying to push their lifestyle on the rest of the population? I wonder if homosexuality is as contagious as blackness. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #270 July 5, 2005 QuoteThe "same" rights would mean being able to marry who you choose to marry, assuming both (or all?) of you are consenting adults. As heterosexuals, we have that right; homosexuals do not. Hence they want *special* not equal. If you want to argue for them to have *special* rights....Please feel free. But don't claim its "equal" since it is clearly not."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #271 July 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe "same" rights would mean being able to marry who you choose to marry, assuming both (or all?) of you are consenting adults. As heterosexuals, we have that right; homosexuals do not. Hence they want *special* not equal. If you want to argue for them to have *special* rights....Please feel free. But don't claim its "equal" since it is clearly not. Ron, I just don't see why you say "special" and not "equal." They are looking to be equal not above. They want the same rights and acknowledgement as a hetero couple would want for their relationship. Why is that "special?" It's not more special than me asking for acknowledgement of my relationship with a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #272 July 5, 2005 QuoteYou claimed they anted equal...They have equal..They want special. How is it special? If two consenting adults want the rights that come with being married why would anyone deny them that. It's not like everyone is jumping at the chance to get married. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #273 July 5, 2005 QuoteRon, I just don't see why you say "special" and not "equal." Equal they have, they have the same rights I do. I can marry a woman, so can any male. QuoteThey are looking to be equal not above I didn't say "better" I said "special". if a gay man wants to marry a gay man, then that is a right that is not currently there. Therfore if they want it, then it is a special right. However they claim that all they want is "equal"...They have EQUAL, they want special. QuoteWhy is that "special?" It's not more special than me asking for acknowledgement of my relationship with a man. It is different in that one is legal, and one is not. Again I have said time after time that you have to be careful what you ask for. They have equal, they want special. They have the EXACT same rights you or I do. They want something else....That makes it a special right. Now you can debate their rights all day long...But its not equal they want, they already have that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #274 July 5, 2005 It wouldn't be a special right if it were granted. If it were granted, then YOU would also be free to marry a man. Hence, it wouldn't be special. Just new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #275 July 5, 2005 They want to equal right to marry who they choose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
