britboynz 0 #76 July 10, 2005 Quoteever wondered why canada, New Zeland, Finnland, etc are never attacked by terrorists? Actually, even New Zealand has had a terrorist incident, when the French bombed and sank the Rainbow Warrior, a Greenpeace ship moored in Auckland on its way to the Pacific in protest of French nuclear testing. Which, incidentally happened exactly 20 years ago today, on the 10th July 1985. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #77 July 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteEver wondered why canada, New Zeland, Finnland, etc are never attacked by terrorists? That's easy -- those countries don't do jack shit to try and stop the world from becoming a totally dark, rotten place place to exist. What an OFFENSIVE statement. New Zealand was involved in WWII from Sept 3 1939 to VJ day. 10,000+ New Zealanders were involved in Operation Overlord on 6 June 1944.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #78 July 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteEver wondered why canada, New Zeland, Finnland, etc are never attacked by terrorists? That's easy -- those countries don't do jack shit to try and stop the world from becoming a totally dark, rotten place place to exist. What an OFFENSIVE statement. New Zealand was involved in WWII from Sept 3 1939 to VJ day. 10,000+ New Zealanders were involved in Operation Overlord on 6 June 1944. Looks like you had to reach back pretty far to find a way to be offended. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #79 July 10, 2005 >What an OFFENSIVE statement. Offensive, yes, but the view of most americans. America is the savior of the world; all other countries are bastards who don't care about helping the US in their mission to bring peace, freedom and prosperity to the world. Hence the provincial 'ugly american' stereotype that many foreigners have of the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #80 July 10, 2005 QuoteHence the provincial 'ugly american' stereotype that many foreigners have of the US. That stereotype is rooted in American tourist rudeness and arrogance. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #81 July 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteHence the provincial 'ugly american' stereotype that many foreigners have of the US. That stereotype is rooted in American tourist rudeness and arrogance. Which is even funnier as Liberals claim to be the most traveled. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #82 July 11, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteEver wondered why canada, New Zeland, Finnland, etc are never attacked by terrorists? That's easy -- those countries don't do jack shit to try and stop the world from becoming a totally dark, rotten place place to exist. What an OFFENSIVE statement. New Zealand was involved in WWII from Sept 3 1939 to VJ day. 10,000+ New Zealanders were involved in Operation Overlord on 6 June 1944. Looks like you had to reach back pretty far to find a way to be offended. Your statement was wrong and ignorant. New Zealand has an excellent record.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #83 July 11, 2005 Skydyvr, your education is sadly deficient. Here is a brief synopsis of Canadian participation in miltary conflicts since the mid-20th century. WWII: Entered war Sept 10 1939. Canadian troops served in every theater of the war (Europe, North Africa, Pacific, Southeast Asia. 42,000 military fatalities, 50,000 wounded population at the time: 11 million (Note: the US didn't join the war until Dec 1941. Although US casualties (dead and wounded) totalled about 600,000, the population at the time was 129 million, so Canada contributed more and suffered more loss in relation to the size of their population.) Korean War: 26,971 Canadian troops served; 516 killed in action Gulf War I: 1,914 Canadian troops served Bosnia-Herzegovina: Approximately 40,000 Canadian troops served during conflict and in subsequent peacekeeping roles Afghanistan: During conflict 2,250 Canadian troops in theater Subsequently the Canadian contribution to peacekeeping operations has ranged from over 2,000 troops to the current level of about 900. Lets see, what's missing? Oh yeah, Vietnam and Iraq. One based on a failed geopolitical theory (the Domino theory), and the other based on an incredible "intelligence failure". Frankly I'm not sorry that we missed out on those two. Anyway your statement that "those countries [meaning Canada among others] don't do jack shit to try and stop the world from becoming a totally dark, rotten place place to exist" is complete shit. What is truly sad is that this sort of ignorant drivel is all too common amongst Americans. Not just the general public, but even your politicians (including Presidents) who really should know better. And no, the "ugly American" isn't just about tourism, it's about the whole attitude that only America and Americans matter and the rest of the world doesn't count for anything. Incidentally the earlier comment that Canada hasn't suffered a terrorist attack is not correct. Canada suffered the worst terrorist attack in history up until 9/11, when Sikh terrorists blew up Air India flight 182 on June 23 1985. This flight originated in Toronto and it was headed to London (and from there to India) when it exploded off the coast of Ireland. All 329 aboard, most of them Canadians, were killed. Matters could have been worse, as at the same time a bomb was planted on another Air India flight from Vancouver to Tokyo, but due to a flight delay the bomb exploded on the ground in Tokyo (killing two baggage handlers) rather than going off in midair during the Tokyo to India leg of the flight. I've noticed that American "terrorism pundits" tend not to mention this incident, probably because it doesnt't fit the American agenda as it didn't involve Islamists. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #84 July 11, 2005 QuoteSkydyvr, your education is sadly deficient. As is sometimes the case, my comments weren't paticularly well thought out -- thanks for the opportunity to pause and reflect. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #85 July 11, 2005 QuoteRubbish. Germany bombed civilian areas of Yarmouth and Kings Lynn in January 1915 (WWI), two decades prior to Guernica. Not the "whole" truth Prof K..........but if you want to credit some Zeppelin nuisance raids,that more than likely jettisoned there bomb loads at the first sign of Brit fighters,you go right ahead Here,this might help en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of Guernica Looks like a Spanish invention to me But I really dont expect that you'll admit your wrongMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #86 July 11, 2005 From your source (emphasis mine): Quotehistory in which a civilian population was attacked with the apparent intent of producing total destruction. I'll give it that - it was the first intending to produce total destruction. But the Germans certainly did target civilians during WWI with a number of bombing raids over mainland UK. There is clear bomb damage to the buildings of Lincoln's Inn to which I belong. Many times I have walked round the grounds and taken an interest in the pock marks and splinter holes in the walls. There's a plaque on the wall commemorating the raid noting the exact date during WWI when the bombs fell. There's also brass plaque set into the cobbles in the exact position where one of the bombs fell. This is just round the corner from Fleet Street. At the end of the road are the Royal Courts of Justice. There is no industry in this area and there wasn’t at the time the bombs were dropped – they hit the centre of the financial/legal district. The bombs were aimed at civilians; civilians who weren’t even contributing to the war effort. And your characterization of Zeppelin attacks as "nuisance raids" is something of an insult to the 550 civilians they killed during the First World War. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites caz 0 #87 July 11, 2005 Quote There is clear bomb damage to the buildings of Lincoln's Inn to which I belong. nothing of value at all to add other than you're just around the corner from me work wise! [sitting here humming 'its a small world' to myself] oh and to add this British spirit link which was forwarded to me and I found quite amusing http://www.livejournal.com/users/tyrell/154027.html ~~~ London Skydivers ~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #88 July 11, 2005 QuoteQuoteRubbish. Germany bombed civilian areas of Yarmouth and Kings Lynn in January 1915 (WWI), two decades prior to Guernica. Not the "whole" truth Prof K..........but if you want to credit some Zeppelin nuisance raids,that more than likely jettisoned there bomb loads at the first sign of Brit fighters,you go right ahead Here,this might help en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of Guernica Looks like a Spanish invention to me But I really dont expect that you'll admit your wrong That's because I'm right and you're wrong. Deliberate bombing of civilians predated Guernica by 2 decades, and was started by Germany. By 1917 they had Gotha bombers attacking London, to replace the Zeppelins. www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/WWI_Bombing/AP3G4.htm Here, this will help the historically challenged: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing#World_War_One "The first ever aerial bombardment of civilians was on January 19, 1915, in which two German Zeppelins dropped 24 fifty-kilogram high-explosive bombs and ineffective three-kilogram incendiaries on the Eastern England towns of Great Yarmouth, Sheringham, Kings Lynn, and the surrounding villages. In all, four people were killed, sixteen injured, and monetary damage was estimated at £7,740, although the public and media reaction were out of proportion to the death toll. "There were a further nineteen raids in 1915, in which 37 tons of bombs were dropped, killing 181 people and injuring 455. Raids continued in 1916. London was accidentally bombed in May, and, in July, the Kaiser allowed directed raids against urban centres. There were 23 airship raids in 1916 in which 125 tons of ordnance were dropped, killing 293 people and injuring 691. Gradually British air defences improved. In 1917 and 1918 there were only eleven Zeppelin raids against England, and the final raid occurred on August 5, 1918, which resulted in the death of KK Peter Strasser, commander of the German Naval Airship Department. By the end of the war, 51 raids had been undertaken, in which 5,806 bombs were dropped, killing 557 people and injuring 1,358. The Zeplin raids were complemented by the Gothaer bomber, which was the fist heavier than air bomber to be used for strategic bombing. It has been argued that the raids were effective far beyond material damage in diverting and hampering wartime production, and diverting twelve squadrons and over 10,000 men to air defences."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #89 July 11, 2005 No worries. I sometimes suffer from foot-in-mouth syndrome myself. I learned something myself while looking those numbers up, so thanks for that. All I ask is mutual respect between people and (by extension) countries. Ultimately I think we're all on the same side here. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #90 July 12, 2005 From previously mentioned weblink "It was the first aerial bombardment in history in which a civilian population was attacked with the apparent intent of producing total destruction" ***That's because I'm right and you're wrong. As always Prof........I'll let the facts speak for themselves *** In all, four people were killed, sixteen injured, and monetary damage was estimated at £7,740, although the public and media reaction were out of proportion to the death toll. and It has been argued that the raids were effective far beyond material damage in diverting and hampering wartime production, and diverting twelve squadrons and over 10,000 men to air defences." Hence the term "nuisance raid" no disrespect meant or intended towards the victims or their families, mr2mk1gMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #91 July 12, 2005 Your "first" was a qualified first, as you well know. This one is unqualified.. the ACTUAL unqualified first: "The first ever aerial bombardment of civilians was on January 19, 1915, in which two German Zeppelins dropped 24 fifty-kilogram high-explosive bombs and ineffective three-kilogram " You continue to ignore the raids of 1916 - 1918, too. I suppose you also think Lindbergh was the first to fly the Atlantic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #92 July 12, 2005 ***I suppose you also think Lindbergh was the first to fly the Atlantic. "First solo,non-stop,single engineflight across the Atlantic but not the first to cross the Atlantic in a powered aircraft.......Lcdr Read in an NC-4 in 1919 You probably think Madog ap Owain Gwynedd beat Columbus hereMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mr2mk1g 10 #86 July 11, 2005 From your source (emphasis mine): Quotehistory in which a civilian population was attacked with the apparent intent of producing total destruction. I'll give it that - it was the first intending to produce total destruction. But the Germans certainly did target civilians during WWI with a number of bombing raids over mainland UK. There is clear bomb damage to the buildings of Lincoln's Inn to which I belong. Many times I have walked round the grounds and taken an interest in the pock marks and splinter holes in the walls. There's a plaque on the wall commemorating the raid noting the exact date during WWI when the bombs fell. There's also brass plaque set into the cobbles in the exact position where one of the bombs fell. This is just round the corner from Fleet Street. At the end of the road are the Royal Courts of Justice. There is no industry in this area and there wasn’t at the time the bombs were dropped – they hit the centre of the financial/legal district. The bombs were aimed at civilians; civilians who weren’t even contributing to the war effort. And your characterization of Zeppelin attacks as "nuisance raids" is something of an insult to the 550 civilians they killed during the First World War. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caz 0 #87 July 11, 2005 Quote There is clear bomb damage to the buildings of Lincoln's Inn to which I belong. nothing of value at all to add other than you're just around the corner from me work wise! [sitting here humming 'its a small world' to myself] oh and to add this British spirit link which was forwarded to me and I found quite amusing http://www.livejournal.com/users/tyrell/154027.html ~~~ London Skydivers ~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #88 July 11, 2005 QuoteQuoteRubbish. Germany bombed civilian areas of Yarmouth and Kings Lynn in January 1915 (WWI), two decades prior to Guernica. Not the "whole" truth Prof K..........but if you want to credit some Zeppelin nuisance raids,that more than likely jettisoned there bomb loads at the first sign of Brit fighters,you go right ahead Here,this might help en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of Guernica Looks like a Spanish invention to me But I really dont expect that you'll admit your wrong That's because I'm right and you're wrong. Deliberate bombing of civilians predated Guernica by 2 decades, and was started by Germany. By 1917 they had Gotha bombers attacking London, to replace the Zeppelins. www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/WWI_Bombing/AP3G4.htm Here, this will help the historically challenged: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing#World_War_One "The first ever aerial bombardment of civilians was on January 19, 1915, in which two German Zeppelins dropped 24 fifty-kilogram high-explosive bombs and ineffective three-kilogram incendiaries on the Eastern England towns of Great Yarmouth, Sheringham, Kings Lynn, and the surrounding villages. In all, four people were killed, sixteen injured, and monetary damage was estimated at £7,740, although the public and media reaction were out of proportion to the death toll. "There were a further nineteen raids in 1915, in which 37 tons of bombs were dropped, killing 181 people and injuring 455. Raids continued in 1916. London was accidentally bombed in May, and, in July, the Kaiser allowed directed raids against urban centres. There were 23 airship raids in 1916 in which 125 tons of ordnance were dropped, killing 293 people and injuring 691. Gradually British air defences improved. In 1917 and 1918 there were only eleven Zeppelin raids against England, and the final raid occurred on August 5, 1918, which resulted in the death of KK Peter Strasser, commander of the German Naval Airship Department. By the end of the war, 51 raids had been undertaken, in which 5,806 bombs were dropped, killing 557 people and injuring 1,358. The Zeplin raids were complemented by the Gothaer bomber, which was the fist heavier than air bomber to be used for strategic bombing. It has been argued that the raids were effective far beyond material damage in diverting and hampering wartime production, and diverting twelve squadrons and over 10,000 men to air defences."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #89 July 11, 2005 No worries. I sometimes suffer from foot-in-mouth syndrome myself. I learned something myself while looking those numbers up, so thanks for that. All I ask is mutual respect between people and (by extension) countries. Ultimately I think we're all on the same side here. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #90 July 12, 2005 From previously mentioned weblink "It was the first aerial bombardment in history in which a civilian population was attacked with the apparent intent of producing total destruction" ***That's because I'm right and you're wrong. As always Prof........I'll let the facts speak for themselves *** In all, four people were killed, sixteen injured, and monetary damage was estimated at £7,740, although the public and media reaction were out of proportion to the death toll. and It has been argued that the raids were effective far beyond material damage in diverting and hampering wartime production, and diverting twelve squadrons and over 10,000 men to air defences." Hence the term "nuisance raid" no disrespect meant or intended towards the victims or their families, mr2mk1gMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #91 July 12, 2005 Your "first" was a qualified first, as you well know. This one is unqualified.. the ACTUAL unqualified first: "The first ever aerial bombardment of civilians was on January 19, 1915, in which two German Zeppelins dropped 24 fifty-kilogram high-explosive bombs and ineffective three-kilogram " You continue to ignore the raids of 1916 - 1918, too. I suppose you also think Lindbergh was the first to fly the Atlantic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #92 July 12, 2005 ***I suppose you also think Lindbergh was the first to fly the Atlantic. "First solo,non-stop,single engineflight across the Atlantic but not the first to cross the Atlantic in a powered aircraft.......Lcdr Read in an NC-4 in 1919 You probably think Madog ap Owain Gwynedd beat Columbus hereMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
GeorgiaDon 362 #89 July 11, 2005 No worries. I sometimes suffer from foot-in-mouth syndrome myself. I learned something myself while looking those numbers up, so thanks for that. All I ask is mutual respect between people and (by extension) countries. Ultimately I think we're all on the same side here. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #90 July 12, 2005 From previously mentioned weblink "It was the first aerial bombardment in history in which a civilian population was attacked with the apparent intent of producing total destruction" ***That's because I'm right and you're wrong. As always Prof........I'll let the facts speak for themselves *** In all, four people were killed, sixteen injured, and monetary damage was estimated at £7,740, although the public and media reaction were out of proportion to the death toll. and It has been argued that the raids were effective far beyond material damage in diverting and hampering wartime production, and diverting twelve squadrons and over 10,000 men to air defences." Hence the term "nuisance raid" no disrespect meant or intended towards the victims or their families, mr2mk1gMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #91 July 12, 2005 Your "first" was a qualified first, as you well know. This one is unqualified.. the ACTUAL unqualified first: "The first ever aerial bombardment of civilians was on January 19, 1915, in which two German Zeppelins dropped 24 fifty-kilogram high-explosive bombs and ineffective three-kilogram " You continue to ignore the raids of 1916 - 1918, too. I suppose you also think Lindbergh was the first to fly the Atlantic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #92 July 12, 2005 ***I suppose you also think Lindbergh was the first to fly the Atlantic. "First solo,non-stop,single engineflight across the Atlantic but not the first to cross the Atlantic in a powered aircraft.......Lcdr Read in an NC-4 in 1919 You probably think Madog ap Owain Gwynedd beat Columbus hereMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
