Standard, semi stowless, or stowless?

[Renuardm 0]

Here's the situation. I have a little over 250 jumps and have packed for myself less than a handful of times. And that was with the help of a packer. I have a brand new canopy that's slicker than sh*t. I've been practicing packing it on my own but it gets tricky when it comes to getting it in the d bag and stowing the lines. I've heard differing stories about different types of d bags.

I'm pushing more toward stowless. But thought I'd get a few opinions from you guys. Pro's and con's of each? Preferences? Thoughts?

[Blis 1]

If you cant pack well forget stowless bags (and probaply semi-stowless too), they dont take well to stuffing the canopy in D-bag...

Best idea would be to get someone (who really knows to how to pack!) teach you and start packing for yourself...

[councilman24 37]

How about trying the factory bag for the container? You really don't need anything else.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Pobrause 6]

If your problem with packing is getting the canopy into the bag none of the above will help you out.
There is a 4th solution however. It's the cheapest by far and is called "practice"

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[Iwan 47]

I agree. Use the D-bag originally from manufacturer. Pack 50 times under some supervising, then repeat hundred times more and the problem vanish.
If not, pack hundred times more.
When you are packing only after jump it's not efficient like spending few days concentrated only on packing process.
Do not find shortcuts for your skills, it's almost always dead end

[degeneration 5]

Learning efficient packing techniques will be far more beneficial than getting a new d-bag that you will still have to get a canopy inside.

If you're pro-packing, maybe look in to the "reverse S fold" method which puts the canopy in the bag in stages, rather than the traditional all at once method. I've been using this technique pretty much for ever (or at least since I got my very first brand new canopy) and it made things much easier for me.

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[mr2mk1g 10]

I too use a modified technique for putting the canopy in the bag. Just before I make the first s-fold I draw the d-bag under the canopy so that I make the s-folds directly on top of the d-bag's closing flap. Once the stack is neatly folded on top you just have to lift the mouth of the bag round the stack. It's a lot easier and tidier than trying to move a slippery stack of s-folded canopy material about.

OP - once you have learned the basic steps a good tip would be to talk to and watch as many different people pack in as many different ways as possible. The result is always the same but lots of people have small variations on how they physically achieve the end result. You can then cobble together your own set of techniques which you personally get on with best. Sort of "I like the way Dave does this bit but prefer the way Bob does the next step". Just make sure you already have the basics down so you don't introduce errors into your packing method.

[riggerrob 643]

mr2mk1,
If I may add a couple of tips?

When you slide the d-bag under the canopy, kneel on the corners of the bag lip. Then your knees clamp the canopy to the bag to the floor. Clamping prevents the bag from wandering and frees up both hands for stuffing the canopy in. If the canopy tries to expand - out of the bag - knees prevent expansion.

Another tip: fold the canopy in half (so that the bridle attachment is down near the slider. Stuff that mid-fold into the top corners of the bag.
The second step stuffs the top quarter of the canopy into the bag.
The third step folds the slider into the middle of the d-bag.

[yoink 321]

Renuardm

I'm pushing more toward stowless. But thought I'd get a few opinions from you guys. Pro's and con's of each? Preferences? Thoughts?

I'm curious why you're even considering stowless or semistowless bags.

I can't believe anyone would tell you that it would help with your packing problem? The process is the same for all bags - they just close differently. You've still got to get the canopy in the bag itself first...

Like everyone else has said, your best bet is to save the money on the bag and just practice. Don't try and make quick loads - make sure you leave yourself enough time to pack slowly. Take the time to squeeze all the air out of the canopy and have a relax while you're doing it.

After jumping is done for the day, offer your packer a couple of beers if he'll watch you pack a few times and offer some advice as you're doing it.

[Joellercoaster 6]

The hard part about packing is not stowing the lines

I am a fairly terrible packer (though admittedly I have done it a few hundred times here and there) and I feel like stowless would not be a great idea for me either.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Renuardm 0]

These are the answers I was expecting to get. That's pretty much what I'm doing right now practicing on a regular basis under an experienced watchful eye.

As for how the topic came up, we were discussing various ways of making the packing process easier. It wasn't just the process of stowing the canopy in the bag but of everything else included so I thought I'd throw this out there. Probably a little prematurely, but it never hurts to ask.

It's been long overdue to start packing on my own. But starting to travel around to different dz's, I don't want to have to rely on packers from everywhere else to do my work.

Thanks for all the advice.

[sammielu 3]

Think of new canopies as requiring a packer for 5 packjobs, virtually requiring a packer for the first 25, and boy will you be a happier skydiver if you get packjobs for the first 100 packjobs on them.

I'm guessing your main and reserve are both on the big size for your container, right? That makes it even more difficult to get the canopy in the bag (and is super common because everyone "plans to downsize" and leaves room in their equipment to do so, terby torturing themselves with an oversized new main when they're just learning to pack). Consider shopping for a well-used main and switching to something that will be easier to learn on (how much is it worth to save your frustration?). I learned to pack on some very broken in rentals and now have a habit of buying $500 old canopies with 1k jumps on them because they're easy to pack and easy to find (I have 3 at the moment).

Don't make changes to your packing methods now. You'll just have to re-learn whatever you change (including if you change the bag type and stowing lines method). Go slow, use weights, take breaks, and remember that it gets easier every time if you do the same thing every time.

[bjbkkb 1]

Two years ago I got a brand new Sabre 2. Packing a brand new ZP canopy will give you many opportunities to expand your vocabulary in ways that only a Sailor could appreciate. After about 5 VERY bad pack jobs I switched to Psycho packing. Never had a problem after that. I have since bought another new canopy and started right away with Psycho packing and absolutely no problems. You might want to check out that solution.

My goal is that when all is said done I will have a big pile of well used gear and a collection of great stories.

[Renuardm 0]

Thanks. I actually had a friend make me a video of him psycho packing. It looks intense but he also said he hasn't had a cutaway in over 1000 jumps since he started packing that way.

[tred 0]

at home pack and unpack over and over until you figure it out. you will get tired and frustrated but eventually it will happen

[mr2mk1g 10]

Yup, that's how I do it - when I move my knees back from in between the two s-folds I kneel on the grommets for the locking stows and I can shove all I like into the bag and it's not going anywhere. In fact I tend to then rotate the d-bag through 90 degrees back towards me so that rather than pulling and pushing I just use my weight against the planet to pull the mouth of the d-bag down over the canopy. I'm all about using lazy ways to achieve the same thing that everyone else sweats over.

[grantunderland 0]

I've never learned how to properly pack, mine look like crap. I stuff fabric all over my UPT-stock semi-stowless with great success. YMMV of course, but I don't think the bag design is going to change the opening if you're stuffing random bits of fabric here and there.

[hajnalka 0]

Renuardm

These are the answers I was expecting to get. That's pretty much what I'm doing right now practicing on a regular basis under an experienced watchful eye.

As for how the topic came up, we were discussing various ways of making the packing process easier. It wasn't just the process of stowing the canopy in the bag but of everything else included so I thought I'd throw this out there. Probably a little prematurely, but it never hurts to ask.

It's been long overdue to start packing on my own. But starting to travel around to different dz's, I don't want to have to rely on packers from everywhere else to do my work.

Thanks for all the advice.

To this ^:

Semi-stowless is the way to go, in my opinion.

You'll still have to get the canopy in the bag (obviously) with a couple of locking stows. But then you can 'figure-eight' the lines: Much easier and faster.

I don't like the various "full stowless" bags that only use magnets. It's hard to get the canopy in neatly, and the canopy/container volumes need to match. Less room for error.

We've seen a few instances where a magnetic bag snatched onto the the trailing edge of a canopy (landable,) and other instances where incorrectly-packed magnetic bags have caused bag lock (not landable.)

I've recommended semi-stowless dbags to my new gear buying rigging clients for a few years now, and they love them.

Hope this helps,
-H