London Transport Terrorism - again

[crozby 0]

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it's always much better to stand idly by instead of doing the right thing

come to think of it...if we would just put the terrorists in power and then submit to their every whim, nobody would be terrorized anymore! why haven't our "moronic" leaders thought of this??

I guess you and I will just have to agree to differ on what we consider to be the 'right thing', because as far as I inderstand it there were no terrorists in Iraq before the 'coalition of the wrong-about-WMD' turned the place into a terrorist version of disneyland.

[tcnelson 1]

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there were no terrorists in Iraq before the 'coalition of the wrong-about-WMD' turned the place into a terrorist version of disneyland

there was at least one and he was the head of the bath party in iraq. i'll give you one guess at his name. if you don't think he was a terrorist, tell that to the kurds or just about anyone who he didn't like.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Skyrad 0]

Only works if you're comparing apples with apples. Comparing the PLO (Which legaly has a office here in London) which is a political group with Islamist millitant groups makes as much sense as comparing against Irish terrorist groups.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mr2mk1g 10]

The majority of terrorist attacks coming out of the Middle East / muslim extremists can in one way or another be traced back to the west's involvement in Palestine.

That's Britain's "bad". It was part of our Empire and after the war we withdrew in 1948 leaving those living there to kick off open warfare between themselves.

We made two promises to the people of the region. 1. that the Arabs would be left to their own devices. 2. that we would set up a nation for the Jews. We did #2 (for which the anti-Semitic Arabs will never forgive us). We didn't exactly try too hard with #1, especially when it came to stopping the new Jewish nation we'd just set up from riding rough over them. Again, this created hatred against us in Arab culture.

Since then we've been meddling in their affairs ever since in the same way the Americans have. Even though we're doing this for good, they tend to get a bit pissy about it... especially when we side with the Israelis.

[Skyrad 0]

'and would have arguably over-emphasized terrorism in the UK.'

Not sure what you mean by that Tom, but this thread is about terrorism in the UK, as were the remarks made that initialy illicited a response from Storm1977.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Steel 0]

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Fascinating list, but not really relevant to my point which was that British people are dying because Blair chose to involve us in the invasion of Iraq.

It amazes me greatly how you and others can look at a factual list list like this. It ever-so-clearly contradicts what you had just stated and yet you totally disregard it.
I know we are all entitled to our own opinions but this is not an opinion. These are facts, fact that are clearly contradicting your previous statement.
I am surprised Wendy or Bill haven't responded to this list by saying well what about Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kisinkski. I mean whats the difference 37 events compared to 2. Sounds about the same doesn't it?
For those who want to shout about the IRA, please show us a list. Better yet, show us a list of the IRA members that participated in suicide bombings or bombings that killed thousands.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[caz 0]

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It's politically incorrect to say so, but...

This is Islam versus the rest of the world, not Islam versus Christianity, or Islam versus the US.

Islam is NOT a religion of peace.

I'm sure the vast majority of Muslims would disagree with you there, much the same as the vast majority of Catholics would probably object if you lumped them into the same category as the IRA.

~~~ London Skydivers ~~~

[Skyrad 0]

Thats a load of cobblers. I could say the same of Catholism PIRA, INLA, RIRA, ETA all terrorism groups all Catholic, guess all Catholics are terrorists
What about the inquisition? Mass terror organised by the Pope and vatican! Yet more proof! Stupid eh? Yea, about as stupid as your statement.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Sorry semantics, but Arabs are racially Semitic.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mr2mk1g 10]

Good catch - I hope people can get the point non-the-less. I used the term to mean strongly anti-jew.

[storm1977 0]

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No IRA bombings are included? Why is that? Were they not terrorists? If not why not? Could it be that that would be embarrasing seeing as Americans gave them £18 Million a year via NORAID to buy semtex to blow women and children to shit with.

As for this public annoyance happening in London right now, it's hard to say if anyone has been killed yet seeing as we haven't been able to rule out biological agents being dispersed by IED.
.

P.S......Nice pic Caz

The IRA are TERRORIST... you are missing the point.
I was saying; Look at all these attacks, and this list doesn't even include the IRA.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[Ron 10]

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There is an argument to say it would prevent terrorist getting hold of some rather nasty munitions... but it certainly never had the potential to reduce the number of attacks.

The idea was to prevent the destruction of the attacks.

You will NEVER stop a guy that wants to kill. You can really try to limit the amount of damage.

It seems in these cases some moron built the bombs wrong and they didn't detonate.

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As for Britain being safe if it didn't attack Iraq - nah -our involvement in Iraq simply underlined the word "Britain" on the terrorists list of targets, it didn't put it there. Britain was on that list years ago and it was already in bold.

Yeah Britain was always a target, as is ANY large city. Even Muslims are targeting other Muslims sine they are not the "same".

The ONLY fix to this problem is for the extremists to be no longer tolerated by the majority....Until then the best we can do is try to limit the amount of damage done, and crush the ones we can catch.

But going after them has a price. Until the majority turn on the extremists we will be seen as attacking Islam. And that will build more terrorists.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[crozby 0]

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It amazes me greatly how you and others can look at a factual list list like this. It ever-so-clearly contradicts what you had just stated and yet you totally disregard it.
I know we are all entitled to our own opinions but this is not an opinion. These are facts, fact that are clearly contradicting your previous statement.

You're going to have to enlighten me. No matter how many times I look, I can't see how that list contradicts my statement.

[wmw999 2,447]

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I am surprised Wendy or Bill haven't responded to this list

All right!! I'm on the list!!! I'm associated with Billvon!

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bodypilot90 0]

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I'm sure the vast majority of Muslims would disagree with you there, much the same as the vast majority of Catholics would probably object if you lumped them into the same category as the IRA.

well the muslims of the world like the catholics need to stop giving the bastards safe haven. In my book if you knowingly harbor a "bomber" (BBC term) you are as bad as the people you harbor and deserve same treatment.

[mr2mk1g 10]

as I've previously pointed out the BBC is most certainly not averse to using the term "Terrorist". Don't forget you're talking to people who wake up to BBC news, watch BBC tv and drive home listening to BBC radio.

[TomAiello 26]

I was trying, somewhat ineptly, to express that he was (politely, I thought) removing the IRA from the list to try to present an accurate picture of terrorism that might be in response to the war in Iraq. Remember that his position was that there was plenty of terrorism in the UK before the whole Iraq thing started. Leaving the IRA incidents in the list would only have supported his position, albeit somewhat artificially. I thought it was a good effort to avoid bias in his own favor.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Skyrad 0]

Misunderstood you, sorry.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Steel 0]

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I was trying, somewhat ineptly, to express that he was (politely, I thought) removing the IRA from the list to try to present an accurate picture of terrorism that might be in response to the war in Iraq. Remember that his position was that there was plenty of terrorism in the UK before the whole Iraq thing started. Leaving the IRA incidents in the list would only have supported his position, albeit somewhat artificially. I thought it was a good effort to avoid bias in his own favor.

Do you really believe that Skyrad, Cozby or Wendy could not reason that out for themselves? I don't believe that for one second. Me simply thinks that the facts lied out disproved their statements and therefore they were trying to spin the issue, to create confusion. It gets kind of frustrating sometimes, making you feel like you're whipping a dead horse trying to get it to move.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[caz 0]

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well the muslims of the world like the catholics need to stop giving the bastards safe haven. In my book if you knowingly harbor a "bomber" (BBC term) you are as bad as the people you harbor and deserve same treatment.

again another extreme generalisation, I'm sure the VAST majority of Muslims like the VAST number of Catholics have not and never will harbour terrorists.

The actions of a few with their warped take on their religion are tainting the majority of Muslims who are peace loving people who would not dream of slaughtering innocent people in the name of religion or anything else.

~~~ London Skydivers ~~~

[crozby 0]

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Do you really believe that Skyrad, Cozby or Wendy could not reason that out for themselves? I don't believe that for one second. Me simply thinks that the facts lied out disproved their statements and therefore they were trying to spin the issue, to create confusion.

I can't speak for the others, or Cozby for that matter, but I am certainly not trying to spin or confuse. I simply don't believe that the UK would be being bombed now had we not sent troops to Iraq. What facts disprove 'our' statements anyway?

[Steel 0]

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Do you really believe that Skyrad, Cozby or Wendy could not reason that out for themselves? I don't believe that for one second. Me simply thinks that the facts lied out disproved their statements and therefore they were trying to spin the issue, to create confusion.

I can't speak for the others, or Cozby for that matter, but I am certainly not trying to spin or confuse. I simply don't believe that the UK would be being bombed now had we not sent troops to Iraq. What facts disprove 'our' statements anyway?

The fact that long before Terrorists with the same ties, as were layed out in the list, were committing the same types of acts against the West, England is included.
I never heard of an Islamic Extremist saying that they set on destroying the West but preserving England for some reason.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[ViperPilot 0]

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I simply don't believe that the UK would be being bombed now had we not sent troops to Iraq. What facts disprove 'our' statements anyway?

As far as disproving, you could look at 9/11. It was a completely unprovoked terrorist attack based soley on hatred towards the West. So, the same thing could have easily happened in any Western European country, even if Iraq had not happened. Afterall, Iraq did not cause 9/11, extremists' hatred for the West did. That same hatred is easily directed at London or any other Western city regardless of Iraq. You could argue Iraq brings more hate, but it certainly did not START the hate.

[Michele 1]

First things first....Brits, hang in there. My prayers and thoughts are with you all.

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Us Brits are so much safer since Tony fucking Blair decided to wedge his tongue firmly up Bush's backside and help with the invasion of Iraq.

Croz, I can't really support that idea in the least. One of the first fatwahs issued by OBL and AQ spoke of the Balfour letter, which was written in 1919 (I think...) which outlined the UK's intentions about the Jews and the ME. The fact that it took WW2 and the murder of 6 million Jews (along with millions of other "undesirables") to bring that declaration to the fore and work to establish Israel, and you have a very brief, overly simplistic view of why OBL and AQ has targeted the UK.

The history of the conflict is important to understand, and the history goes back - in this case, at least - all the way to the beginning of the last century (farther, if you want to go there). OBL stated the issues clearly in his fatwah...and that was very much before the war in Iraq.


Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Casurf1978 0]

The West will always be a target for extremist, but he does bring up a valid question. How has the war in Iraq impacted terrorism? Also has it turned moderates into extremist thus providing new recruits to these organizations. Has it alienated some of our allies in the mid east? All those a valid questions that really need to be looked at.

In your post a few pages down you list numerous terrorist attack, but one thing that separates the UK one from the rest is that the terrorists in the UK were home grown, ie UK citizens. Why did they turn? Did the UKs participation change their outlook on their country? Unfortunately we will never know the answers to these questions. All we can do now is speculate, but these questions should be addressed.