funjumper101 15 #1 August 15, 2005 Take a look at the news report at http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_222165020.html A truckload of explosives blew up an important highway in Utah. Image what a truckload of higher quality explosives could do in Washington, DC. Funny how the national press hasn't picked up this story and started beating the drums to ban all truck traffic from major cities. They go after general aviation consistently. Why don't they go after the real threats? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #2 August 15, 2005 >Funny how the national press hasn't picked up this story and started >beating the drums to ban all truck traffic from major cities. Have they been beating the drum about banning airplanes from major city airports as well? I may have missed that. >Why don't they go after the real threats? The real threats are containers entering US harbors from overseas; we have almost no protection against them. Trucks are pretty secondary, since you need a driver, and many US facilities are hardened against vehicular attacks. But I agree they are still a threat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #3 August 15, 2005 QuoteThe real threats are containers entering US harbors from overseas; we have almost no protection against them. While I agree that the containers are a threat, I think Funjumper101 is correct that the trucking industry would pose a much greater threat. I do environmental engineering for a living, and there are many things that get shipped every day across our roadways that are much more dangerous to the general public than a airliner filled with fuel or a cargo container filled with explosives. Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 324 #4 August 15, 2005 what about rail travel? i live in wv, and the shit that gets shipped in tankers is scary._________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #5 August 15, 2005 >what about rail travel? i live in wv, and the shit that gets shipped in >tankers is scary. True, but access is much more difficult. Almost anyone can buy (and drive) a truck, and almost anyone in any country can ship a container to the US. Much harder to get your own boxcar onto a rail line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 August 15, 2005 QuoteWhy don't they go after the real threats? Too difficult. Why are buses such great targets for suicide bombers? Because they are loaded with people for maximum carnage and they are difficult to secure. Buses are meant for high-speed and efficient movemnet of people on and off and transport through town. Securing all trucks would also be troublesome and difficult. Ban all truck traffic from a major city and you'll find that the major city is a major riot within the next 2 or three days and then a major ghost-town within the coming weeks. Trucks keep the city going, and you'd do more damage to the cities and society by banning trucks from them than you would by having a few Oklahoma City incidents per year. Aviation, on the other hand, is an easier threat to control. You do get bang for your buck. How many bus stops does New York City have? How many subway stations does NYC have? But NYC has three airports, I think. You can control movement in and out of three places, but not 30,000 places. How many shipping docks for loading and unloading of trucks do you have? How many trucks are there? How the hell do you secure that? The reality is you can't. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #7 August 16, 2005 QuoteTrue, but access is much more difficult. This is very accurate. There "might" be an exception here and there but as a rule the rail yards are quite secure. We ship around 780 rail cars per month of sulfuric acid, in order for me to be able to do any inspections I had to go through more than one class and have an id card for each rail company I go to. Lawrocket's post is on the money. They do the shit at the airports because its two things. 1.) Its very easy to control, because you can control who goes where and how they get to what part of the airport. 2.) Its very high profile. They can show the public "see we are taking steps." The reality is that (IMO) we are not really any safer (other than at the airports) than we were before. But I really doubt we are in any more danger than we were before either. I think there will always be a nut job somewhere that wants to kill someone for some reason or another. But the bottom line is that we live in a huge country and it would not be possible to "protect" it all the way they would have you believe it is. Please don't take what I have said as me believing that we should not be trying to protect ourselves better, and I also believe in what we are doing overseas... I just don't like it when they (and that would be both the administration and the media) sell the public that these guys are a bunch of un-educated, under funded morons.... Lets not forget that they put together a plan that not only took over those airliners at the same time, but they also learned to fly a jet airliner well enough to hit buildings. We should remember that when we are watching them on (insert news service here) and seeing them live like animals.... They are far from it.... And they are highly motivated.... Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 August 16, 2005 Quote Its very high profile. They can show the public "see we are taking steps." .. Yup = it's not about results, it's about PR and the illusion of safety ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #9 August 16, 2005 Quote They go after general aviation consistently. Why don't they go after the real threats? Homeland Security isn't about security. It's about getting (re) elected. Congress critters piss off fewer voters when they focus on wealthy peoples' hobbies and chartered transportation than everyman's grocery delivery and trucking jobs. They spend less money doing it. Commercial air travel "security" (suicide bombers that will give their lives aren't going to have a problem spending time working menial jobs that give them access to the aircraft) is probably more visible and therefore does a better job at providing the perception of security. It's also a lot more practical - there are many fewer airports than interstate interchanges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 324 #10 August 17, 2005 i'm not talking about people using them for anything, i'm talking about an idiot with a railroad spike derailing a shipment of chlorine in a city somewhere. i've seen ww2 leaflets dropped by us to the resistance in france showing how to derail a train with a railroad spike and other means of sabotage(sp). there is even less of a chance to protect the railways than trying to protect the highways. at least hazmat trucks use the outer belts around cities, trains go right through. i'm thinking that a couple of tank cars of chlorine rupturing in a downtown area the size of cleveland would be a major strike opportunity._________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #11 August 17, 2005 a friend of mine drives a gas truck. I was told that (many) gas trucks across the US have come up missing. Full tankers. gone.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #12 August 17, 2005 Quotei'm talking about an idiot with a railroad spike derailing a shipment of chlorine in a city somewhere. It seems that the terrorist assholes are looking for the maximum publicity as well as body count. There was an incident in South Carolina where 3 Chlorine rail cars were derailed. The loss of life was surprising low (although 1 is too many to lose). The cost to the environment was very high. Our chief pilot flew over the area about a month after it happened, and said you could see exactly which way the wind was blowing on the day it happened (from all the dead vegetation). I'm somewhat hesitant to give an example..... But I'll give one that is kind of a lower level compared to what really could be used in an attack to explain why I say that trucks are a greater threat. Keep in mind that if you look up the DOT reg's in the 49 CFR that you will find that in most cities only restrict explosives to the outer routes not haz-mat trucks (gas, and some grocery products are actually haz-mat items when shipped). Also keep in mind that a terrorist will probably not play by the DOT rules regarding placards. Take your average copper cyanide electroplater. That electroplater will ship between 100 and 9,000 gallons per month of Copper cyanide plating waste (made from 70% potassium cyanide). An average tanker can hold 4500 gallons of that material. Now introduce hydrochloric acid into that tanker.... Guess what that makes... I'll give you a hint.... It’s been used in gas chambers.... All ya need then is a little wind.... and HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!!! Most of the haz-mat trucks have gps on them now. But there is nothing that says that it could not be easily disconnected. And that truly is an example of a LOWER level threat compared to what is shipped every day across the road. Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #13 August 17, 2005 Quotea friend of mine drives a gas truck. I was told that (many) gas trucks across the US have come up missing. Full tankers. gone.. Good thing blowing up a gas truck doesn't really do much but make a big fire. I'd guess that with the current price of gasoline, they were likely stolen for that reason.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #14 August 17, 2005 You've hit on something I've maintained since 9/11/01. The maximum terror potential to the US with the minimum investment by those wishing to do us harm lies with "traditional" chemicals, not NBC warfare. I can think of a chemical of which extremely small doses will kill, with months between exposure and symptoms. One could kill far more people by this method than with a dirty bomb, and the process by which it kills is one most people would find quite unattractive. Edit to remove chemical name. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #15 August 17, 2005 Quotethey were likely stolen for that reason. That's what I thought.. steal a 10,000 gallon fuel truck. Bury it in your backyard and be set for life.. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #16 August 17, 2005 >Good thing blowing up a gas truck doesn't really do much but make a big fire. It's not too hard to add a few hundred pounds of chemicals (forgive me if I don't list what they are) and create an excellent explosive, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #17 August 17, 2005 QuoteIt's not too hard to add a few hundred pounds of chemicals (forgive me if I don't list what they are) and create an excellent explosive, though. doesn't take that much.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #18 August 17, 2005 Quote(forgive me if I don't list what they are) Ouch..... Point taken. (But then you know that I didn't list all the chemicals necessary in my post now don't you...) Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
