Written for Cindy Sheehan by Howad Dean

[rushmc 23]

Do you still believe she should be off limits because she lost here son?

I will only take the story seriously once and when the media starts talking to the parents of other fallen heros.

How sad



CINDY UNLEASHED: 'THE BIGGEST TERRORIST IN THE WORLD IS GEORGE W. BUSH'
Wed Aug 17 2005 21:51:56 ET

"We are not waging a war on terror in this country. We’re waging a war of terror. The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"

So declared Cindy Sheehan earlier this year during a rally at San Francisco State University.

Sheehan, who is demanding a second meeting with Bush, stated: "We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now."

Sheehan unleashed a foul-mouth tirade on April 27, 2005:

"They’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites! And we need to, we just need to rise up..." Sheehan said of the Bush administration.

"If George Bush believes his rhetoric and his bullshit, that this is a war for freedom and democracy, that he is spreading freedom and democracy, does he think every person he kills makes Iraq more free?"

"The whole world is damaged. Our humanity is damaged. If he thinks that it’s so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war."

"We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog shit in Washington, we will impeach all those people."

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Do you still believe she should be off limits because she lost here son?

I will take the story seriously once and when the media starts talking to the parents of other fallen heros.

How sad

She's a grieving mother of a solder KIA. She deserves plenty of slack IMO. Despite all the attacks on Bush, I think she really wants to believe that her son died for something that will make the world a better place. We all should want to believe that these soldiers died for the greater good. I don't think it is clear to anyone, though, that they did.

The media hardly deserves slack. They SHOULD talk with parents of other soldiers killed in Iraq. The parents deserve answers and so do we.

Regardless of whether the war will be seen as a good thing in hindsight, we should honor those who have served, and especially honor the memory of those who have died.

Walt

[rushmc 23]

Agreed!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[fallingchip 0]

perfectly stated

______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

[funjumper101 15]

Which quotes do you think are factually incorrect?

I don't see any.

[AlexCrowley 0]

abso-fucking-lutely.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[billvon 3,008]

>I will only take the story seriously once and when the media
>starts talking to the parents of other fallen heros.

Start taking it seriously.

-----------------------------------
Parents of Fallen Marine Make Plea to Bush
August 16th, 2005
Joe Milicia
Associated Press

CLEVELAND - The day after burying their son, parents of a fallen Marine urged President Bush to either send more reinforcements to Iraq or withdraw U.S. troops altogether.

"We feel you either have to fight this war right or get out," Rosemary Palmer, mother of Lance Cpl. Edward Schroeder II, said Tuesday.

Schroeder, 23, died two weeks ago in a roadside explosion, one of 16 Ohio-based Marines killed recently in Iraq.

The soldier's father said his son and other Marines were being misused as a stabilizing force in Iraq.
-----------------------------------

[rushmc 23]

It is a start but looks to me to be a different perspective than what my post was about origianally.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"

Her self-implosion is beginning... Prediction: In another two weeks, no one will take her seriously any longer. Not even those who want to ride on her coattails apron strings to bash Bush.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"

Her self-implosion is beginning... Prediction: In another two weeks, no one will take her seriously any longer. Not even those who want to ride on her coattails apron strings to bash Bush.

That's wishful thinking, John. There are at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that are perfectly happy with calling the President a terrorist. And to be clear, they didn't give Clinton a ride on the Iraq thing either.

I don't agree with this sort of pacifism, but quite a few people do.

[billvon 3,008]

>Prediction: In another two weeks, no one will take her seriously any longer.

Too late. There's already a growing mirror protest in DC, and public opinion polls are starting to side with her.

[rushmc 23]

I am with you. It is looking to me that the more shrill someone (or a group) gets, the less significant they become.

It is starting to get funny and old at the same time

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Sheehan unleashed a foul-mouth tirade on April 27, 2005:

I can't imagine why this is being published almost 4 months later.

[sfzombie13 324]

because it took them this long to dig it up. the pres is worried. he started a counter protest(or someone did it for him), and now he is worried that something may come out of this if he doesn't diffuse the situation. again, it may be his advisors, or press agents or someone close to him, but it is connected to him. now, don't get me wrong, i'm not a democrat, i didn't like clinton either(on some things). i'm not saying anyone else could do better, probably not, in fact. it's the system that's broke, it got corrupted years ago and there's no end in sight without a major overhaul. and since the people in power like it that way, we'll never see it in our lifetime.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[Dougiefresh 0]

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we'll never see it in our lifetime

Not with that attitude. If you want to see change, you have to do something about it.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[billvon 3,008]

>If you want to see change, you have to do something about it.

And when you _do_ do something about it, you get called a nutso stink hippy.

[Rookie120 0]

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nutso stink hippy.

Never heard that one before. Kinda funny.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[sfzombie13 324]

Quote

Not with that attitude. If you want to see change, you have to do something about it.

you can't fight the system without money. if you ain't got money, you ain't shit in this country, and most of the world. and there's that nutso stink hippie thing, i don't want to be called that.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[jenfly00 0]

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It is a start but looks to me to be a different perspective than what my post was about origianally.......

Ahhh, your perspective is filed over there to the right. Keep walking ...go past the skin heads, red neck bikers and Texans. You'll find lots of agreement along the way.

jen

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[wmw999 2,460]

Quote

It is looking to me that the more shrill someone (or a group) gets, the less significant they become.

That goes for both sides. That's not apropos of your original post (which Walt answered brilliantly), but, well, shrill can come from both sides. It just doesn't sound as discordant when it agrees

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

It is a start but looks to me to be a different perspective than what my post was about origianally.......

Ahhh, your perspective is filed over there to the right. Keep walking ...go past the skin heads, red neck bikers and Texans. You'll find lots of agreement along the way.

jen

You don't get it......

The media will quote only those that think GWB is evil or otherwise.

Those with the negative attitude toward the president are the minority!

More parents (that lost sons) think GWB is doing the right thing in Iraq. Where are those stories hhhmmmm?

........quit looking left all the time and you woun't be so blind

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

It is looking to me that the more shrill someone (or a group) gets, the less significant they become.

That goes for both sides. That's not apropos of your original post (which Walt answered brilliantly), but, well, shrill can come from both sides. It just doesn't sound as discordant when it agrees

Wendy W.

I agree, that does go for both sides.

Do you have an opinion where most of the name calling comes from?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I agree, that does go for both sides.

Do you have an opinion where most of the name calling comes from?

Whichever side that is currently out of power.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

More parents (that lost sons) think GWB is doing the right thing in Iraq. Where are those stories hhhmmmm?

This is an opinion piece from yesterday's Wall Street Journal.

Walt

---

'Cindy Sheehan Does Not Speak For Me'
By Ronald R. Griffin

I lost a son in Iraq and Cindy Sheehan does not speak for me.

I grieve with Mrs. Sheehan, for all too well I know the full measure of the agony she is forever going to endure. I honor her son for his service and sacrifice. However, I abhor all that she represents and those who would cast her as the symbol for parents of our fallen soldiers.

The fallen heroes, until now, have enjoyed virtually no individuality. They have been treated as a monolith, a mere number. Now Mrs. Sheehan, with adept public relations tactics, has succeeded in elevating herself above the rest of us. Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida declared that . Mrs. Sheehan is now the symbol for all parents who have lost children in Iraq. Sorry, senator. Not for me.

Maureen Dowd of the New York Times portrays Mrs. Sheehan as a distraught mom standing heroically outside the guarded gates of the most powerful and inhumane man on earth, President Bush. Ms. Dowd is so moved by Mrs. Sheehan's plight that she bestowed upon her and all grieving parents the title of "absolute moral authority." That characterization epitomizes the arrogance and condescension of anyone who would presume to understand and speak for all of us. How can we all possess "absolute moral authority" when we hold so many different perspectives?

I don't want that title. I haven't earned that title.

Although we all walk the same sad road of sorrow and agony, we walk it as individuals with all the refreshing uniqueness of our own thoughts shaped in large measure by the life and death of our own fallen hero. Over the past few days I have reached out to other parents and loved ones of fallen heroes in an attempt to find out their reactions to all the attention Mrs. Sheehan has attracted. What emerges from those conversations is an empathy for Mrs. Sheehan's suffering but a fundamental disagreement with her politics.

Ann and Dale Hampton lost their only child, Capt. Kimberly Hampton, on Jan. 2, 2004, while she was flying her Kiowa helicopter. She was a member of the 82nd Airborne and the company commander. She had already served in Afghanistan before being deployed to Iraq. Ann Hampton wrote, "My grief sometimes seems unbearable, but I cannot add the additional baggage of anger. Mrs. Sheehan has every right to protest... but I cannot do that. I would be protesting the very thing that Kimberly believed in and died for."

Marine Capt, Benjamin Sammis was Stacey Sammis's husband. Ben died on April 4, 2003 while flying his Super Cobra helicopter. Listen to Stacey and she will tell you that she is just beginning to understand the enormousness of the character of soldiers who knowingly put their lives at risk to defend our country. She will tell you that one of her deepest regrets is that the world did not have the honor of experiencing for a much longer time this outstanding Marine she so deeply loved.

Speak to Joan Curtin, whose son, Cpl. Michael Curtin, was an infantryman with the 2-7th 3rd ID, and her words are passionately ambivalent. She says she has no room for bitterness. She has a life to lead and a family to nurture. She spoke of that part of her that never heals, for that is where Michael resides. She can go on, always knowing there will be that pain.

Karen Long is the mother of Spc. Zachariah Long, who died with my son Kyle on May 30, 2003. Zack and Kyle were inseparable friends as only soldiers' can be, and Karen and I have become inseparable friends since their deaths. Karen's view is that what Mrs. Sheehan is doing she has every right to do, but she is dishonoring all soldiers, including Karen's son, Zack. Karen cannot comprehend why Mrs. Sheehan cannot seem to come to grips with the idea that her own son, Casey, was a soldier like Zack who had a mission to complete. Karen will tell you over and over again that Zack is not here and no one, but no one will dishonor her son.

My wife, Robin, has a different take on Mrs. Sheehan. She told me, "I don't care what she says or does. She is no more important than any other mother."

By all accounts Spc. Casey Sheehan, Mrs. Sheehan's son, was a soldier by choice and by the strength of his character. I did not have the honor of knowing him, but I have read that he attended community college for three years and then chose to join the Army. In August 2003, five months into Operation Iraqi Freedom and after three years of service, Casey Sheehan re-enlisted in the Army with the full knowledge there was a war going on, and with the high probability he would be assigned to a combat area. Mrs. Sheehan frequently speaks of her son in religious terms, even saying that she thought that some day Casey would be a priest. Like so many of the individuals who have given their lives in service to our country, Casey was a very special young man. How do you decry that which someone has chosen to do with his life? How does a mother dishonor the sacrifice of her own son?

Mrs. Sheehan has become the poster child for all the negativity surrounding the war in Iraq. In a way it heartens me to have all this attention paid to her, because that means others in her position now have the chance to be heard. Give equal time to other loved ones of fallen heroes. Feel the intensity of their love, their pride and the sorrow.

To many loved ones, there are few if any "what ifs." They, like their fallen heroes before them, live in the world as it is and not what it was or could have been. Think of the sacrifices that have brought us to this day. We as a country made a collective decision. We must now live up to our decision and not deviate until the mission is complete.

Thirty-five years ago, a president faced a similar dilemma in Vietnam. He gave in and we got "peace with honor." To this day, I am still searching for that honor. Today, those who defend our freedom every day do so as volunteers with a clear and certain purpose. Today, they have in their commander in chief someone who will not allow us to sink into self-pity. I will not allow him to. The amazing part about talking to the people left behind is that I did not want them to stop. After speaking to so many I have come away with the certainty of their conviction that in a large measure it's because of the deeds and sacrifices of their fallen heroes that this is a better and safer world we now live in.

Those who lost their lives believed in the mission. To honor their memory, and because it's right, we must believe in the mission, too.

We refuse to allow Cindy Sheehan to speak for all of us. Instead, we ask you to learn the individual stories. They are glorious. Honor their memories.

Honor their service. Never dishonor them by giving in. They never did.

Mr. Griffin is the father of Spc. Kyle Andrew Griffin, a recipient of the Army Commendation Medal, Army Meritorious Service Medal and the Bronze Star, who was killed in a truck accident on a road between Mosul and Tikrit on May 30,2003.

---

[billvon 3,008]

>Those who lost their lives believed in the mission. To honor their
>memory, and because it's right, we must believe in the mission, too.

I suppose this is where I will always disagree with these people. Soldiers do not equal war. A soldier is not useless without a war to fight, and someone who stands against war does not stand against soldiers. There is honor in fighting for your country; there is even greater honor in achieving what we desire without killing. We have come far enough to no longer worship death, or to worship the suffering that accompanies it.

You can be against terrorists without being against Iraqis. You can be against abortion without being against doctors. And you can be against war without being against soldiers.