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rhino

Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson suggested on-air that American operatives assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

By rhino, in Speakers Corner

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jenfly00    0

jenfly00
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I find you quite simple to understand.



I find you quite hard to understand....



Yeah, it's the down side of evaluating situations and forming situations based on the data. It must be confusing for the 'one ideology fits all' group.

jen
-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

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juanesky    0

juanesky
Yep, I see a Canadian discussing local Venezuelan politics with a Venezuelan born and raised.....

It is very hard for you to find google to help you with your poorly backed argument.

You see, in Feb. 4th 1992 he was a LTC in the Venezuelan Army, who together with 3 other commanders tried to commit a coupe de tat, in the process he killed over 85 of the soldiers defending the current president (Carlos Andres Perez) at the time in the "Casona" (sort of Venezuelan white house).

There are no facts that can liberate him from a guilty verdict, as he was clearly and by his own acknowledgement, the higher ranking official who ordered to fire against those of his own soldiers defending Perez.

Now, the constitution at the time was pretty much clear, as he was serving sentence in a prison, that he could not run for president. However, as he got pardoned 2 years into serving his sentence, by the then president Rafael Caldera. He got a clean slate and his lawyers were successfull in proving that a President Pardon was a clean slate in his criminal record, which is not. It should have only commuted his sentence.

And so he was elected president, and re wrote the constitution granting him more powers.

April 11th 2002, there was a civil disobedience-coupe de tat attempt, as he wanted to ignore the overwhelming public outcry for referendum. He wanted to ignore the 7 million plus votes who wanted a referendum on his rule. There was a brief take over for a little over 72 hours. At the time the US emphatically called for the rebels to let the president (Chavez) back in power, but you will always hear that US was behind the attempt and your usual BUSH hating bashing....

Little you know, that there was a March on April 11th, a civil disobedience March, of over 3 million people in Caracas, Valencia, and Maracaibo, 3 of the mojor cities in the country... He ordered the DISIP (who is like his secret service but how would you know?:P to open fire at certain areas when the protesters approached. There were videos, pictures of the ensuing massacre. A peacefull protest where 125 innocent victims got shot by sniper fire. After the killings it just sort of rolled down hill for the president there, he had to run!!!

How do I know? It happens that a few of my family members and close friends were on the March in Caracas, and definitely got pretty ugly information that actually never made relevant press....
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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rehmwa    2

rehmwa
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It must be confusing for the 'one ideology fits all' group.



Ooooh, slamming just about 90% of the posters her with that one. Nicely done.

one ideology fits all - you may pick from a large selection ----- of two. It's not a smorgasboard

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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SkyDekker    1,465

SkyDekker
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Yep, I see a Canadian discussing local Venezuelan politics with a Venezuelan born and raised.....



Actually I wasn't discussing local Veneluelan politics, I was discussion US interaction with Venezuela.

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Now, the constitution at the time was pretty much clear, as he was serving sentence in a prison, that he could not run for president. However, as he got pardoned 2 years into serving his sentence, by the then president Rafael Caldera. He got a clean slate and his lawyers were successfull in proving that a President Pardon was a clean slate in his criminal record, which is not. It should have only commuted his sentence.



Sounds like he went through the proper channels, sorry if you don't like the results. Kind od like Bush and his first election, isn't it?


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And so he was elected president, and re wrote the constitution granting him more powers.



Now, I know the Patriot Act isn't part of the constititution, but this sure does sound familiar.

I already agreed that Chavez is scum and an idiot, but he was elected by the majority of your countrymen. Hopefully they will do better in the next elections.

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Trent    0

Trent
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Now, I know the Patriot Act isn't part of the constititution, but this sure does sound familiar.



When President Bush decides to extend his term indefinitely, I'll join you in protesting... until then, it has VERY LITTLE to do with our president or the patriot act. While it may sound like a good argument on the surface, it shows you have no idea how horrible Chavez is.

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I already agreed that Chavez is scum and an idiot, but he was elected by the majority of your countrymen. Hopefully they will do better in the next elections.



Yes, Chavez is a complete idiot. The problem with the elections there was that we let one of our own American idiots back the story that the elections were fair and there was no tampering, Jimmy Carter.

Chavez is fast becoming a dictator with a messiah complex. We should all learn more about the situation down there, because it doesn't look like it's going to get better anytime soon.

Oh, and as an aside... every Venezuelan I know has said that they wished the US would take his ass out or invade and get rid of him. I know more than a handful of Venezuelans.
Oh, hello again!

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SkyDekker    1,465

SkyDekker
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Yes, Chavez is a complete idiot. The problem with the elections there was that we let one of our own American idiots back the story that the elections were fair and there was no tampering, Jimmy Carter.



I am assuming you have proof they were not?

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Oh, and as an aside... every Venezuelan I know has said that they wished the US would take his ass out or invade and get rid of him. I know more than a handful of Venezuelans.



I'll bet you there are about a dozen African countries whose population feels the same way. I still wonder how important the availablility of oil is in the decision making process regarding which countries to "liberate".

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wmw999    2,547

wmw999
Most Venezuelans with an education and something to lose seem to be against Chavez. The problem is that too many of them aren't educated, and are impoverished. They also vote. I don't think anyone wants to disenfranchise them.

The way through it is to help those people get an education and a stake in the issue.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Trent    0

Trent
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I am assuming you have proof they were not?



Just observations that pretty much the entire population of the major cities was out by the millions protesting against him. Hell, you guys don't even hate Bush enough to get that kind of protest going. That and what I've been told by people who DID go vote in their elections.

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I still wonder how important the availablility of oil is in the decision making process regarding which countries to "liberate".



Well wonder no more! Apparently oil is not the ONLY factor in who we invade since we weren't getting much from Iraq and we DO get mucho from Venezuela. Sorry to deflate your theory like that...
Oh, hello again!

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Botellines    0

Botellines
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Who Chavez or Robertson? Both are wacked jobs. Most likely Chavez needs to be eliminated, and avoid the cubanization of Venezuela..



Since it seems that Chavez is not in good terms with the Commander in Chimp or the oil industry, what are your thoughts, since you were born in Venezuela, on a war against your country?

Would it be okay with you a large number of civilian casualties 10.000+. Remember that they could be your family or your friends.

Since you say you are serving, would you kill your fellow countrymen?

Do you guys have WMD, (want some?)

I hope that the republican warmongering doctrine has not sunk too much in you that you talk about invading your country as you talk about invading Irak.

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kallend    2,108

kallend
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So you thought we should assassinate Chavez instead of invading Iraq? Or are you saying we should have invaded Venenzuela instead of assassinating Saddam? :D



You wrote a non-sequitur, just 'fess up and get on with life.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Trent    0

Trent
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Most Venezuelans with an education and something to lose seem to be against Chavez. The problem is that too many of them aren't educated, and are impoverished. They also vote. I don't think anyone wants to disenfranchise them.



Not true... most of the Venezuelans with money and education can afford to take the money and run... many have. Rich people have NOTHING to lose since most of their money moved out of the country when Chavez started his descent into lunacy. On the opposite hand, the very people who you say support him (the poor) are the ones most directly suffering from his reign. Their bolivars are worthless, they STILL don't have the houses he promised or the clinics he promised... and they're still poor. Many of the people against Chavez are pretty average as far as money is concerned... or else there are MILLIONS of rich Venezuelans in each town.


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The way through it is to help those people get an education and a stake in the issue.



I'm sure Chavez promised them that too, but then he basically worked on a campaign of intimidation and bribery... like a big kid running for class president and handing out lollipops.
Oh, hello again!

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juanesky    0

juanesky
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Actually I wasn't discussing local Veneluelan politics, I was discussion US interaction with Venezuela.



Same here, think you meant Venezuelan:D
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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rehmwa    2

rehmwa
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Lighten up.



Telling Kallend to 'Lighten up' is like.

well....

I don't really know what it's like. little help here?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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