Hey, Bush Bashers (Hurricane)

[Gawain 0]

Quote

So tell us please, what % of the 1.3M residents of the NO metro are fall into the category of "chose to stay"?

I respond with nearly all who were there chose to stay. A three-six hour slow walk out of town would have allowed all able bodies to reach higher ground.

On a slow pace one might cover 2 miles per hour. As for the non-able-bodied, I don't know. What I do know is that the folks down there saw this sh*t coming, and I believe that everyone could have done a little more. A little more, all around, would have made a big difference in my view.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

So tell us please, what % of the 1.3M residents of the NO metro are fall into the category of "chose to stay"?

I respond with nearly all who were there chose to stay. A three-six hour slow walk out of town would have allowed all able bodies to reach higher ground.

On a slow pace one might cover 2 miles per hour. As for the non-able-bodied, I don't know. What I do know is that the folks down there saw this sh*t coming, and I believe that everyone could have done a little more. A little more, all around, would have made a big difference in my view.

Yet another guess based on no actual data.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[slug 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

So tell us please, what % of the 1.3M residents of the NO metro are fall into the category of "chose to stay"?

I respond with nearly all who were there chose to stay. A three-six hour slow walk out of town would have allowed all able bodies to reach higher ground.

On a slow pace one might cover 2 miles per hour. As for the non-able-bodied, I don't know. What I do know is that the folks down there saw this sh*t coming, and I believe that everyone could have done a little more. A little more, all around, would have made a big difference in my view.

Yet another guess based on no actual data.

Hi John

A "interesting" guess if i must say so myself.

The lessons learned report should be interesting. Will be even more interesting to see if the peep's who guessed wrong in SC will step up to the plate.

Don't understand why all the attenion to the politic's rather than the humans who were caught in the belly of the beast.

Damn what am I saying I know why interesting Political kneejerk Dogma.

R.I.P.

[Channman 2]

>Are you proud of how Bush handled this? Think he did a superb job?

I understand there are many on DZ.Com who dislike Bush, hate Bush, loath Bush....but I find it hard to understand, how so many people blame one man for all the troubles of the world.

There is a group of people called Senators and Congressmen, Men and Women who deside policy and determine a national budget and set priorities. I believe it was a Dem. I'll just call him Joe for now that came up with the idea of homeland security and both parties placed FEMA into this massive Government Screw up.

That debate itself will be played out in weeks to come, by educated derelicts.

But this discussion provides no value, helps solve not one problem, feed one child, or gives confort to a desperate mother looking for her child.

But DZ.Com does allow skydivers the oppertunity to vent, because we sure as hell are not very good at actually solving this current problem.

The good news is there are those individuals who may frequent DZ.Com that my be helping as volunteers, Doc. Nurses, Guardsmen at least they have put themselves into action while the rest of us type.

[Erroll 80]

Quote

Quote

So tell us please, what % of the 1.3M residents of the NO metro are fall into the category of "chose to stay"?

I respond with nearly all who were there chose to stay.

Excerpt from CNN :-

Holding out
Rescue workers say many holdouts have insisted on staying in their homes or makeshift residences rather than obey the mandatory evacuation order Nagin first put into effect on August 28, the day before Katrina crashed ashore.
Some said they were concerned about their property being looted, while others were unaware of disaster's full extent, worried about their pets or concerned that conditions would be even worse in shelters.

The city's deputy police chief, Warren Riley, said Monday the holdouts numbered in the thousands.



(emphasis mine)

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

I respond with nearly all who were there chose to stay. A three-six hour slow walk out of town would have allowed all able bodies to reach higher ground.

On a slow pace one might cover 2 miles per hour. As for the non-able-bodied, I don't know. What I do know is that the folks down there saw this sh*t coming, and I believe that everyone could have done a little more. A little more, all around, would have made a big difference in my view

Hang on; I just want to get this straight in my head. You want elderly people to start walking out into the countryside, with no place to go to other than "to higher ground" when they KNOW a hurricane is coming with 180mph winds.

You want a bunch of old folks to be sat on a hillside looking out over their flooding city saying to one another "oh, I'm glad I'm not down in that flood Marjorie" while winds blow round their draws at 180mph???

You do realize their cards would all blow away when they tried to pay patience right?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

They wouldnt have to think about walking if NO had used their own evac plans , that included all the city and school buses, that well were flooded out ...... unused...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[mnealtx 0]

Nice hyperbole.... in case you hadn't been watching the news, it wasn't the elderly that were looting the stores. There were plenty of able-bodied that could have walked the 3 miles to the Superdome, which was where the shelter was located.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mr2mk1g 10]

Lisa; how is that the fault of the individual granny in the OAP home?

Gawain was specifically responding to a question about how many of those who stayed CHOSE to do so with the suggestion that anyone left behind should have just walked out into the countryside and sat about getting skewered by flying debris.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

if the govt would have done what they were supposed to then people ALL of them wouldnt have to account for themselves. However yes even granny should have figured out how to get away. People need to account for themselves. If they cant , well theres this theory about natural selection... accountabilty.... if someone cant help you, then either figure out how to help yourself or do nothing, its a choice... they made their choice

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[mr2mk1g 10]

I find it hard to agree that a little old granny was supposed to walk out into what she knew were going to be 180mph winds and that if she didn't she should just resign herself to death. Hey maybe she should have walked, perhaps her O2 tank would have stopped her being blown away.

This isn't a made up scenario – these people were there. There was a Brit guy on the news weeping about how several of the residents in the OAP home he stopped to help out died as they waited on help. They couldn't get out before hand on their own – they had no transport. The city was going to send a bus but no bus came. The little old grannies could hardly stand never mind walk out into the countryside knowing they were going out to face a storm.

[shropshire 0]

As usual (in ths forum at least) there's only black or white - (no shades of grey) - you can continue to argue 'till you're blue in the face but you'll not convince some people that these poor old dears were not entirely to blame for their own welfare.

Hey but good luck trying mate.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

As usual (in ths forum at least) there's only black or white - (no shades of grey) - you can continue to argue 'till you're blue in the face but you'll not convince some people that these poor old dears were not entirely to blame for their own welfare.

Hey but good luck trying mate.

Selective reading, again - nobody is saying that the disabled should have walked out. We are (or were) discussing the able bodied

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mr2mk1g 10]

Where should they have walked to? The dome was full - so full in fact there were people stood outside chanting help us remember. Should the able bodied have sat on a hillside trying to dodge debris?

[crozby 0]

Quote

you can continue to argue 'till you're blue in the face but you'll not convince some people that these poor old dears were not entirely to blame for their own welfare.

Oh come on! These people had many years prior to this disaster in which to do something about being black and poor. They have noone to blame but themselves that they instead chose to spend that time mugging old ladies and shooting one another.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

What cracks me up is the avid pro-gun crowd on here, the ones usually proclaiming in all their bravado they will shoot any government agent who tries to take something from them. The ones who claim they need guns to protect themselves and their property, the ones that shout the loudest that they are free and will do whatever the hell they want.

They are the ones now shouting the loudest that these people should have left everything they ever owned behind and just start walking. People with elderly, with young children. People who had nowhere to go...NOWHERE....the poorest of the poor.

I wonder if those raped at the superdome wished they had stayed home in stead.....

So, should these people just have started walking? Where do you think they should have walked to?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

But as I always say, "To error is human, to blame someone else is more human".

Your point about the state of emergency is well-taken.

And you're also very human -- you still blame all but Bush.

Again, it's a failure of leadership on all levels. Whatever the procedures, this is a problem of national scale that Bush cannot completely wash his hands of.

Are you proud of how Bush handled this? Think he did a superb job?

Along your lines of thought, Bush might as well have continued his vacation and waited longer for LA's incompetent governor to cry for federal help.

It is quite clear that the Bush haters don't want to see the truth.

First responce responcibility is at the city level, second is the state level, third is the federal "when asked".

There is an AP article from September....................................OF LAST YEAR...................that reads like is if from Katrina and it is from Irvin.

The government structure of that area (parishes?) is flawed and corrupt. If anybody failed the people of NO is what thier own leadership but it is quite clear that the Bush haters don't care! He is evil and he has to be guilty of something because he would not get voted into office legally............TWICE

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,026]

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency charged with emergency management than from a retired granny with no car. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a city mayor operating in a disaster area with no power and almost no communications capability. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a state governor operating from a state capital in the throes of a hurricane with power lines down all around and 150mph winds blowing and torrential rains falling. I guess you don't.

Anything to give a pass to this administration's screw-ups.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Oh come on! These people had many years prior to this disaster in which to do something about being black and poor. They have noone to blame but themselves that they instead chose to spend that time mugging old ladies and shooting one another.

- egh? Where'd that come from?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mr2mk1g 10]

[Cartman]Goddamnit Kenny stop being so goddamn poor. If a hurricane comes and you die it'll be all your fault.[/Cartman]

[lisamariewillbe 1]

okay regardless where my opinions stand , that was funny,

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency charged with emergency management than from a retired granny with no car. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a city mayor operating in a disaster area with no power and almost no communications capability. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a state governor operating from a state capital in the throes of a hurricane with power lines down all around and 150mph winds blowing and torrential rains falling. I guess you don't.

Anything to give a pass to this administration's screw-ups.

Or anything to give a pass to local administration's screw ups?

I don't hold either one to a "higher standard of performance" than the other - I expect them to do their damn jobs. The city and state governments didn't.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency charged with emergency management than from a retired granny with no car. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a city mayor operating in a disaster area with no power and almost no communications capability. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a state governor operating from a state capital in the throes of a hurricane with power lines down all around and 150mph winds blowing and torrential rains falling. I guess you don't.

Anything to give a pass to this administration's screw-ups.

Or anything to give a pass to local administration's screw ups?

I don't hold either one to a "higher standard of performance" than the other - I expect them to do their damn jobs. The city and state governments didn't.

I don't recall any destruction of infrastructure in Washington DC during Katrina. Federal buildings there still had power, phones, etc.

But I most certainly understand your reluctance to hold the Bush crony in charge of FEMA to a high standard of performance. I hear he did OK detecting cheats in Arabian horse events.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tso-d_chris 0]

Quote

Hang on; I just want to get this straight in my head. You want elderly people to start walking out into the countryside, with no place to go to other than "to higher ground" when they KNOW a hurricane is coming with 180mph winds.

Don't you understand? That way the would not die in the flooding.



Advice like he gave is almost certainly from someone who has never had to utilize their LPCs as their primary means of transportation. Most people like that would be crying in pain like a little baby from the blisters and stress fractures if they ever had to take their own advice. They merely expect the poor to be tough enough to do it.

[tso-d_chris 0]

Quote

it wasn't the elderly that were looting the stores.

The cops weren't above it, though.