The pledge ruled unconstitutional in public schools

[GTAVercetti 0]

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1) We believe in the equal rights, opportunities, and benefits for all humans.
2) We do not tolerate discrimination for ANY reason against anyone, nor bigotry.
3) We believe that scientific advancement is the medium for the benefit of future generations to achieve happiness and an excellent quality of life.
4) We believe one should strive for "heaven" during THIS life, and make the most of your skills and intelligence now, not in another "life."

We? Who is this we? Where is this written, who is our Grand High Poobah, through what organisation do we convene and discuss these beliefs?

There is only one criterion for atheism, the conviction that there is no god. That is the meaning of the word and that is all it conveys. Any further goals or life statements you may wish to add are yours, not 'ours'.

HEY! Get back in line with the other atheists! WHERE IS YOUR CARD!?!?!?

Its funny how what is supposed to be the opposite of religion still has commandents.

And people who are just as fantical.

I say, believe what you want, question everything, and respect the views of others if that person derserves your respect themself.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[livendive 8]

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Yes indeed it does:

1) We believe in the equal rights, opportunities, and benefits for all humans.

2) We do not tolerate discrimination for ANY reason against anyone, nor bigotry.

3) We believe that scientific advancement is the medium for the benefit of future generations to achieve happiness and an excellent quality of life.

4) We believe one should strive for "heaven" during THIS life, and make the most of your skills and intelligence now, not in another "life."

This is our "moral code," so to speak, our directions for a "way of life."

How do you purport to speak for me? I have my own moral code and that's not it. Does this make me a "jack atheist"?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Everon 0]

Sorry - I'm a humanist and atheist. Okay?

[VisionAir 0]

http://www3.capwiz.com/afanet/issues/alert/?alertid=8022451&type=CO

Go to above link for AFA Activism.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Look, I do not want or intend to push religion down someone's throat. But this country is a representitive republic. The intention of this form of government is to have the majority decide. Not a dam judge

Umm, which consitution have you been reading? Certainly not the one for the USA, which has judges checking the authority of the ligislature, and specifically guarantees many freedoms for its citizens.

Some of the original colonists got onto floating bathtubs to travel thousands of miles to escape the dominant religion of their homeland. Couple that with a fear of an overly powerful central government and you'll see why the Bill of Rights was needed to get states to ratify. And those people did not want the feds preaching one religion to them.

The majority is not supposed to decide what rights the citizens enjoy, though in practice the judges have tended to reflect the current views. Hence blacks were second class citizens, then women still were, and now gays are.

[Nightingale 0]

Having "under god" in the pledge implies that you have to believe that this nation should be "under god" to pledge allegiance to it. For many people who don't call their deity "god" and to many who don't believe in any deity, that just doesn't work. Alliegiance to one's country should have nothing to do with which deity you follow, or lack thereof.

[happythoughts 0]

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Its funny how what is supposed to be the opposite of religion still has commandents.

Speaking of commandments, is it still the original set ?
I remember how much fun the first 10 were, I don't want to miss the new ones.

Church sermons could be shortened quite a bit if they would just do a quick repetition and split.

"...and...covet, that's the one I forget. Look, pastor, could you just email me if something changes ?"

[livendive 8]

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http://www3.capwiz.com/afanet/issues/alert/?alertid=8022451&type=CO

Go to above link for AFA Activism.

WOW!

I see nutbags. They're all around me. Some of them don't even know they're nutbags.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[windcatcher 0]

wow, pretty soon the American flag will be offend someone. Why do people keep trying to keep God out of everything, and then run to Him when something goes wrong?

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[livendive 8]

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Sorry - I'm a humanist and atheist. Okay?

That's cool. I wasn't trying to jump down your throat, but I realize the way I worded that sounded like it. I was just curious how one atheist could speak to the moral codes of all of us. Without saying I disagree with what you posted, those are not the tenets by which I judge something moral or immoral.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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wow, pretty soon the American flag will be offend someone. Why do people keep trying to keep God out of everything, and then run to Him when something goes wrong?

I don't try to keep god out of everything, just out of the things that I participate in. And no, I don't change tunes when things turn south.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Kris 0]

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wow, pretty soon the American flag will be offend someone. Why do people keep trying to keep God out of everything, and then run to Him when something goes wrong?

It's called separation of church and state.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[VisionAir 0]

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http://www3.capwiz.com/afanet/issues/alert/?alertid=8022451&type=CO

Go to above link for AFA Activism.

WOW!

I see nutbags. They're all around me. Some of them don't even know they're nutbags.

Blues,
Dave

Why thank you Dave....God bless you too.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[VisionAir 0]

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wow, pretty soon the American flag will be offend someone. Why do people keep trying to keep God out of everything, and then run to Him when something goes wrong?

It's called separation of church and state.

And it's just wrong I tell ya...just plain wrong.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[Kris 0]

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And it's just wrong I tell ya...just plain wrong.

You have got to be kidding.

Actually, it's a pretty good idea. You have heard of the Taliban, haven't you? Separation of church and state prevents things like the Taliban from happening over here.

It also protects unencumbered choice, whether one is Christian, Bhuddist, Islamic, Shinto, Hindu, Agnostic, or Atheist, etc...

Edited to add: I just looked at that AFA website link. I can't think of a better example as to why a separation of church and state should exist. *shudder*

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Zenister 0]

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[Some of the original colonists got onto floating bathtubs to travel thousands of miles to escape the dominant religion of their homeland. .

some of them also fled the 'dominant religion' because it (and the State that replaced it's athority) would not let them continue to impose their religious beliefs in the manner that they wished too...

unfortunately they also assimilated and are assuming control once again... worse than pod people i tell you...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[VisionAir 0]

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And it's just wrong I tell ya...just plain wrong.

You have got to be kidding.

Actually, it's a pretty good idea. You have heard of the Taliban, haven't you? Separation of church and state prevents things like the Taliban from happening over here.

It also protects unencumbered choice, whether one is Christian, Bhuddist, Islamic, Shinto, Hindu, Agnostic, or Atheist, etc...

Edited to add: I just looked at that AFA website link. I can't think of a better example as to why a separation of church and state should exist. *shudder*

I would say that this is the perfect example of why they say opinions are like a**holes!!!

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[Kris 0]

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I would say that this is the perfect example of why they say opinions are like a**holes!!!

A-ha! Now you're starting to get it!

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[waltappel 1]

The whole discussion is kind of dumb. I'm not a spiritual person and I won't take an oath involving God or any other supposed deity, but I don't care in the least whether someone else does.

At worst, the "one nation under God" phrase sounds kind of silly to me because (to me, anyway) it is the equivalent of saying "one nation under The Easter Bunny". But hey, if anyone wants a God or two or three in their life, that's fine with me.

There are far more important issues to be concerned with. Anyone who wants to center their lives around eliminating religious references from anything funded by tax dollars must either have very few cares in their day-to-day life or they have a very bizarre obsession with the whole deal.

As far as anyone being offended by either the absence of, or inclusion of a reference to God in the pledge of allegiance, my take on it is that they get offended waaaaaaaaay too easily.

Same goes for prayer in schools. The whole issue is silly because nobody can stop anybody from praying in their mind. Who cares whether it's verbal or not.

If someone wants to go after a religion/government issue that has some sort of substance, they should go after the tax exempt status of church-owned property instead of getting bent out of shape over a few silly words.

Walt

[mnealtx 0]

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I understand what you are saying but this country was founded as a Christian nation. Just as other countries tie themselves to othre religions.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Ratified by the US Senate and signed by President John Adams, 1797.

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When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

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We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Atheism carries with it no binding moral code, political direction or way of life, how could it?

Exactly. Atheists are good people just because they are good people. Not because they are told they must be good in order to get a reward such as going to a certain kind of afterlife.

Which kid would you rather have; the kid who cuts his neighbours lawn because they want to do something nice, or the kid who does it because they want to get a reward?

Of course some Atheists are absolute bastards... just as are some Christians.

[Rookie120 0]

I wonder if the supreme court is going to dodge this case again like they did before. I hope they finally get some balls and put out there ruling on it.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[jakee 1,563]

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Which kid would you rather have; the kid who cuts his neighbours lawn because they want to do something nice, or the kid who does it because they want to get a reward?

What? I'd be like 'Hey kid ya gotta keep your eye on the prize. No ones gonna give you something for nothing so don't sell yourself cheap. Now lets go watch Jerry Maguire again, "Show Me The Money!!"'

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[waltappel 1]

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Of course some Atheists are absolute bastards... just as are some Christians.

The upside of the atheists who are absolute bastards is that they don't smugly figure they can do anything they want and still be forgiven by some spook in the sky.

Walt

[rushmc 23]

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Look, I do not want or intend to push religion down someone's throat. But this country is a representitive republic. The intention of this form of government is to have the majority decide. Not a dam judge

Umm, which consitution have you been reading? Certainly not the one for the USA, which has judges checking the authority of the ligislature, and specifically guarantees many freedoms for its citizens.

Some of the original colonists got onto floating bathtubs to travel thousands of miles to escape the dominant religion of their homeland. Couple that with a fear of an overly powerful central government and you'll see why the Bill of Rights was needed to get states to ratify. And those people did not want the feds preaching one religion to them.

The majority is not supposed to decide what rights the citizens enjoy, though in practice the judges have tended to reflect the current views. Hence blacks were second class citizens, then women still were, and now gays are.

If you have looked further down the thread you would see I found my mistake, howerer, your post I do not entirely agree with etiher.

Judges are supposed to gauge law against the constitution, not creat law from the bench to correct what they see as a wrong.

What is happening today is judges making law and however you look at it that was never the intent The social engineering some of them are doing today has to be stopped ...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln