I AM AGNOSTIC AND HAPPY TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT

[freethefly 6]

What if some of us do not claim to be christian. By all accounts I am bound for hell. AWWWW, what the hell. Listen up... ain't nothing but a thing.... If god is all forgiving, then I am good to go... not worrying 'bout nothing( Cajun thang' I picked up from Mel Cantrell, that somma a bitch wernt worryin' notting)... just alive today as I was yesterday and hope to be tomorrow.
"You do your thing.... I'll do mine... you go your way... I'll go mine... and if by chance we shall meet... then, it is beautiful"...Fredrick S. Pearl
From a poster I had on my wall, 1972, good acid, good weed, good vibes. Damn it as all good when we knew little but pretended to more. Wish I was 13 again. Hanging at the park. Sweet things floating with flowers in their hair. At such a young age, the world was so new and enticed us all to search for more to entice us. Damn this aging process that only awaken us to the reality that comes with knowing that we are only open to a critical existance that is bound to mock what it is that we, each ourselves, to hold dear. For all who have a sound belief that there is something else beyound a mortal existance. Hold on to that. I, myself? I am agnostic and I hold on to that belief that alll will pan out in the end, however the end may come. Be it a total mal, death by a virus or a gun in the mouth, it is all but a thing. If you are so busy worrying about where you are going to be when the bullet hits the bone, then how can you be happy today or tomorrow? I am not worried about that last breath or where the next flight lands. I am just happy that I lived one more day without pain or thinking about the whole ordeal. Happy to be alive now and not dead.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[immanence 0]

I'm one step further: athiest; if by God I have only the choice of believing in some all-seeing, all-powerful chief of police. Most people who talk religion, in my honest opinion, are totally delusional. But unlike schizophrenia, it is a sort of tolerated madness. I think it's sad — maybe telling — that 2000 years after starting to think in terms of one father-like God, human society hasn't evolved the concept. I see a lot of violence in history emanating from this concept of God. I see a lot of people enforcing their version of Truth on others. Funny how atheism is deemed incendary, or offensive to believers, while their belief and righteousness is deemed normal, and should be tolerated by me.

I guess people can believe whatever they want. When a majority in society, however, believe in one version or other of a delusional idea I think it's dangerous. Then my existence is affected by their beliefs, whereas a public or political platform of atheism is almost unthinkable. In such circumstances, many are forced to look for alternative societies within society. Happily, for the most part, skydivers are one, like surfers. I wouldn't suggest that most skydivers are atheists. Probably most believe in God in some way or another. But their dominant ethos is "live life". Most are not thinking about the afterworld, but this world: the next dive. I like this focus on the present.

Am I bound for hell? I like how Galeano puts it: When I was very young, the catechism taught me to do good for the sake of convenience and not to do evil for fear of the consequences. God offered me punishments and rewards: he threatened me with hell and promised me heaven. And I feared and believed. Time has gone by. I am neither afraid nor a believer. And anyway, it seems to me that if I deserve to be roasted on a spit over a slow, eternal flame, so it will be. That way I'll escape purgatory, which will be packed with dreadful middle-class tourists, and in the end, justice will be done.

Just my 2 cents ....

Blue skies,
ian

"where danger is appears also that which saves ..." Friedrich Holderlin, 'Patmos'

[kbordson 8]

Here's a different one... a "true believer" willingly excommunicated by marrying a divorced man who had previously married in the church (no annulment). In the eyes of the church, he is still married to his first wife and the second wife is his adultress.

So another way to Hell is to Believe, but not follow the "Church"

Organized religion always seems to be something that can be twisted and manipulated to make the masses happy. Tell the sheep that if they come, if they give this money, if they beg and plead for their immortal soul... that they will be saved. So they sit in church on Sunday morning for an hour, donate a tithe so that there can be a pretty golden crucifix or a powerful pipe organ and pray for themselves - or if they're feeling charitable then they can also feel good about praying for someone else. But, if you don't like what that church says - change from Roman Catholic to Protestant or Baptist or even watch it on TV and send money there.

Here's why I believe:
-I do believe there is a Higher Power, a "God." I don't know all the questions, but I know that there are more intellegent answers to our existance. I have to believe that there is some reason to be, to love, to help.
-I do believe there are angels among us. I have had situations where I know something that I didn't understand was happening. (One as recently as last Thursday where I had a HORRID day at work, was talking with a dear friends that is no longer with us, sharing with him some melodramatic desires... then I receive a a call - out of the blue- from his brother... at 9am on a Thurs, for no real reason.... yes, you could argue coincidence... but odd)
-I do beleve in Right and Wrong.... but also know that there are many "grey" answers.

But will the beliefs save an outcast?

[Mike111 0]

im athiest to, but some christians, very fanatical ones, do forget that atheists aren't necessarly bad people just because they don't believe in god.

[Gawain 0]

Being atheist is still a "belief". Simply, a belief there is nothing in the way of a "higher power" or "God".

Now, having stated that. I have a few questions, they are specific and open for anyone to answer:

Do you associate the word "God" with religion? If so, which religion? Why?
Remember, I'm talking about the actual word, not what many may mistakenly associate with it.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kbordson 8]

Quote

Do you associate the word "God" with religion? If so, which religion? Why?
Remember, I'm talking about the actual word, not what many may mistakenly associate with it.

I feel that the "Church" or organized religion is different from a belief in God. In the former, man has taken that belief and "standardized" it. And often times applied restrictions and laws to use it as a control for the people. The latter is ones thoughts and perosonal beliefs.
"God" can represent many different organized religion beliefs - christian, jewish, muslim, hindu, pagan and even agnositc. Each of these might profess a belief in God - but a very different "religion" for each.
So a better question would be
Do you associate the word "God" with organized religion?

[Gawain 0]

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Do you associate the word "God" with organized religion?

That is a good question too. Though I do not practice regularly, I do continue to fall on my religious education as a kid and still associate God with the religion I was raised on. However, I do not think that such beliefs should be thrust upon another person.

I brought up my question because the word "God" is not instantly religious. Though that is one of the possible meanings to a monotheistic religion.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[immanence 0]

Quote

I have to believe that there is some reason to be, to love, to help.

Why? Would your head explode of you found out there was no reason to anything? As for day-to-day life, we shouldn't love for a reason — for example, in order to be rewarded. I don't help because I think God is watching. We can be, love and help without there having to be a larger reason to the universe. God is superfluous when you try to be an ethical person. I'd like to think it's possible to help someone up who falls in the street just because it's the right thing to do, not because I get brownie points with God.

For whatever it's worth, I agree with most everything else you said: especially about how distorted belief in the divine becomes in the context of organised "churches".

"where danger is appears also that which saves ..." Friedrich Holderlin, 'Patmos'

[Mike111 0]

i associate the word God with religion most of the time, as all religious beliefs such as Hinduism, Islam, Judaism revolve around worshipping God(s). And as God supposedly is omniscient, then he would be key to these religions

[immanence 0]

Quote

Being atheist is still a "belief".

Not in my view. It is withdrawing belief. You may characterise it as saying, in effect, "I believe in nothing," to which you respond, "Ha ha! You see! You do believe. Only that you believe in nothing!" But this is just semantics — a function of the inadequacies and domains of power inherent within language — rather than anything that pertains with any substance to the original act of withholding belief.

On a side note, it is instructive to look in the thesaurus for synonyms for atheism. They are almost all negative in connotation: Sabbath-breaker, apostate, backslider, blasphemer, deserter, disbeliever, gentile, heathen, infidel, minimifidian, nonbeliever, nullifidian, pagan, recidivist, recreant, renegade, sacrilegist.

I wonder which "powers" established that little play.

"where danger is appears also that which saves ..." Friedrich Holderlin, 'Patmos'

[Mike111 0]

Also, do you mean a religious belief?

After all it is a belief that god doesn't exist, but that might not necessarilly be in a religious context?

[billvon 2,991]

>Do you associate the word "God" with religion?

Religion is belief in a god or gods. It need not be associated with one of the organized religions.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Do you associate the word "God" with religion? If so, which religion? Why?
Remember, I'm talking about the actual word, not what many may mistakenly associate with it.

I usually associate the word "God" (especially if it is capitalized) with religion in general, though a lot of religions have a different word that they use instead (but it's all the same to me). The word "god" also makes me think of anything that people idolize.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

On a side note, it is instructive to look in the thesaurus for synonyms for atheism. They are almost all negative in connotation: Sabbath-breaker, apostate, backslider, blasphemer, deserter, disbeliever, gentile, heathen, infidel, minimifidian, nonbeliever, nullifidian, pagan, recidivist, recreant, renegade, sacrilegist.

That is interesting. I guess I am a heathen...

I just tried looking up "atheist" or "atheism" in a few different thesauruses, and none of them had an entry for either of those words. Strange... Though I did notice this as one of the dictionary definitions for atheism: "Godlessness; immorality." Immorality, huh? Hmm, now I certainly don't associate the word "God" with "morality."

[immanence 0]

Quote

I just tried looking up "atheist" or "atheism" in a few different thesauruses, and none of them had an entry for either of those words.

From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0:

19 Moby Thesaurus words for "atheist":
Sabbath-breaker, apostate, backslider, blasphemer, deserter,
disbeliever, gentile, heathen, infidel, minimifidian, nonbeliever,
nullifidian, pagan, recidivist, recreant, renegade, sacrilegist,
secularist, unbeliever

"where danger is appears also that which saves ..." Friedrich Holderlin, 'Patmos'

[Shotgun 1]

Oh, I believe you; I just thought it was odd that Roget's and Merriam-Webster (and another online thesaurus) didn't even have an entry for it. I guess I've never had a reason to look it up before, so I had never noticed that.

[Nightingale 0]

I associate "God" (capital G) with christianity. Mainly because christianity seems to refer to its god as God. Most other religions refer to their god by another name, example: Jehova, Allah, etc. We would say that "Some ancient Egyptians worshipped Aten as their god" rather than "as their God." When "god" is capitalized and used as a proper noun, it tends to be christian.

[VisionAir 0]

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Funny how atheism is deemed incendary, or offensive to believers, while their belief and righteousness is deemed normal, and should be tolerated by me.

You exercising your freewill not to believe does not offend me...it saddends me. I pray your heart will soften one day.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[VisionAir 0]

Quote

im athiest to, but some christians, very fanatical ones, do forget that atheists aren't necessarly bad people just because they don't believe in god.

Not all fanatical Christians (Yes I am a Jesus freak and proud of it) forget this. I know some non-believers that are better peoeple then some that call themselves believers.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[VisionAir 0]

Quote

Do you associate the word "God" with religion? If so, which religion? Why?
Remember, I'm talking about the actual word, not what many may mistakenly associate with it.

Your "religion" does not matter!!! It is your relationship with God, and your obedience to His word, that is what is important. And His word does require corporate worship...doing your own thang, as the original post puts it, does not cut it.

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

I wonder which "powers" established that little play.

When I was in the "power players" commitee meeting at the time, we conspired to make sure we arranged definitions in such a way as to piss off a certain individual in Egypt.

I think it's interesting that you chose a Thesaurus rather than a dictionary. My dictonary (American Heritage College Dictionary, Third Edition) defines atheism as: 1.a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods. 2. Godlessness, immorality.

Primary meaining "disbelief", a refusal or reluctance to believe. I won't buy the argument that it's limitation of language, since there is quite a bit of flexibility in the english language.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Guest 1010]

It is unfair to always recite the wrongs made in the name of religion while not discussing the good accomplished by those having a belief in God. Historically, the monasteries kept written language and education alive through the dark ages. In present times there have been Christian missionaries killed in Iraq by the terrorists there. (I don't call men from other countries who are in to Iraq accomplish political ends with violence "insurgents," they are terrorists.) They fed and helped care for those hurt by war. They were killed for being western, if not Christian.

We can look back in history to find violence performed in the name of religion. But we need only look back to our father's or grandfather's lifetimes to see the millions killed in Soviet Russia, by atheists or those proclaiming and/or enforcing atheism.

You find my belief in a higher power a tolerated madness and sad. I find your atheism to be sad. In my experience, at the center of an atheist, is a person with a hardened heart. The legitimate believers I know, are otherwise. To be clear, yes I am Christian - I believe in the resurrected Jesus of Nazareth as being the Son of the one God. From as early as I can remember I have prayed and felt the presence of the Lord in my life. You mention tolerate as if my being religious is something which you must endure. I hold no such grudge against my atheist friends.

The notion of being an atheist seems rather silly to me. As I imagine the notion of belief in an afterlife may seem to you. I don't think heaven will be stocked with middle-class tourists. But I think it will have many of those same people, as they were when they were young and vibrant, in perfection, before the cares of this world caused them to become middle-class tourists.

(And my apologies for just choosing just a few nits to pick from your post, not much time this weekend.)

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

19 Moby Thesaurus words for "atheist":
Sabbath-breaker, apostate, backslider, blasphemer, deserter,
disbeliever, gentile, heathen, infidel, minimifidian, nonbeliever,
nullifidian, pagan, recidivist, recreant, renegade, sacrilegist,
secularist, unbeliever

Fuck. There go my 4-way ambitions

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[newsstand 0]

It was purgatory that got the middle class tourists, not heaven.

"... purgatory, which will be packed with dreadful middle-class tourists..."

I too am an atheist, although not as gloom and doom as my compatriots here. One mentioned doing good because it is good and not doing wrong because it was wrong. That is a great philosophy but it almost certainly came from your religious youth.

I went from good Christian kid, to agnostic to atheist in a long and tortured road. After all saying "I believe" would have made a lot of people happy and been very simple. In my teenage years I went through Presbyterian confirmation classes and the night we were to be accepted in to the church went to the ceremony and didn't stand up at the appointed time. To show you how close attention some were paying I was congratulated for joining the church by more than one.

I look at it all this way. I don't believe and that is my issue. It is certainly not immoral. I have higher morals than many Christmas Christians I know. You do believe, that is your issue and doesn't matter to me one way or the other. You don't preach to me I won't preach to you.

My wife was raised Catholic, went through a period of exploration including a year of study at a synagogue. At the time my youngest was in kindergarten or first grade and told his teacher he couldn't be in the "Winter break" play because he was Jewish. His call, not ours. He went to synagogue with mom. (Did you know that, at least in reformed synagogues, they have a bar rolled out after the service. Now that is religion!) All three kids have been to both Lutheran and Methodist vacation bible schools, in the same summer.

So were did we end up? My oldest believes in the Christian God but does not practice a specific religion although she is married to a devout Catholic. Next one down believes but doesn't do anything about it and the 16 year old doesn't believe but I suspect he will change his mind down the road. As much as I hate this phrase, it is all good.

Religion has been the root of both great evil and great good. Just seems that although in general it preaches tolerance it rarely practices it even among similar beliefs. Just look at Northern Ireland and Iraq.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Guest 1010]

good post.

I ascribe the violence mankind has visited upon his fellow man to be a part of the human condition, part of being human. "Blaming" it on religion, or the lack thereof, seems only to suit arguments. The whole of human history, on all the continents, has been violent through the ages.

>>
I look at it all this way. I don't believe and that is my issue. It is certainly not immoral. I have higher morals than many Christmas Christians I know. You do believe, that is your issue and doesn't matter to me one way or the other. You don't preach to me I won't preach to you.
<<

In a vice-versa kind of way I agree with these thoughts. I've been preached to before, and I don't appreciate it either. I don't think the people doing it realize how often they are simply insulting those with whom they are talking. I get rankled however by the enforced atheism of public life, as I imagine others are rankled by "In God We Trust." Which is somehow ridiculed by the Republican senator-types who are "publicly Christian" and none of whom I'd dare leave alone with any of my neices.

Blue Skies

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.