mnealtx 0 #26 September 20, 2005 Quote>Thousands of people DID NOT die . . . Really? Death count is at ~1000 now and rising. I hope you're right, but there are still huge parts of New Orleans that haven't been searched. >The head of FEMA screwed up and was replaced, valuable lesson >learned. He perfomed acceptably during last years hurricane season. Agreed there. >FEMA is legally obligated to direct aid efforts only after initial steps > have taken by local and state officials. And after a disaster area is declared, right. All that happened. After a disaster is declared, *AND* after a formal request from the state governor. They fudged that part to try and get things moving faster, from what I understand - acting on the governor's phone call rather than the survey and written request required by Stafford.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #27 September 20, 2005 QuoteUm, I have a question about this, corroborated or not... He opens with the sentence "Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked." Which means he stayed in NOLA after the mandatory evacuation orders were received... and then, he goes on to say: QuoteWe decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our money and came up with $25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of the City. All right, so why did he stay again? What was the purpose of intentionally staying in an evacuation area? Apparently, he was able to get the money to leave, so why didn't he? What on earth was the purpose for him staying? And if there were enough people to raise $25,000, why wasn't any of this done ***before the damned hurricane*** in the first place? (I mean, get together, pool cash, get the fuck out of the time bomb...) Sigh.....just my thoughts. Take it, leave it, whatever. Ciels- Michele What do any of your questions/statements have to do with what he states happened??? She was raped?! Well, what was she doing walking down the street without a bra???----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #28 September 20, 2005 QuoteWhat do any of your questions/statements have to do with what he states happened???Quote What happened should not have, but had he obeyed the mandatory evacuation order, it would not have happened to him. She was raped?! Well, what was she doing walking down the street without a bra??? Analogy fails because "she" has a perfect right to walk down the street without a bra (and sex crimes are not crimes of passion but crimes of power and control), whereas "he" disobeyed a duly authorized, mandatory evacuation order. I don't really think, however, that it's particularly relevant. There were a lot of people who did not have the means to leave, order or no. And the whole mess was handled poorly (understatement). This account just puts a face on the disaster that's harder to discount, although some people will certainly try. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 September 20, 2005 QuoteAll right, so why did he stay again? What was the purpose of intentionally staying in an evacuation area? Apparently, he was able to get the money to leave, so why didn't he? What on earth was the purpose for him staying? And if there were enough people to raise $25,000, why wasn't any of this done ***before the damned hurricane*** in the first place? (I mean, get together, pool cash, get the fuck out of the time bomb...) Sigh.....just my thoughts. Take it, leave it, whatever. Just a guess here Michele but I'd wager he and his group decided it would be cool to ride out a hurricaine. What stories they would have to tell their friends back home. Why they could even get cool T-shirts printed that said "I survived Hurricaine Katrina". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
busaunit 0 #30 September 20, 2005 www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2005/09/07/1125772580975.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #31 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteAll right, so why did he stay again? What was the purpose of intentionally staying in an evacuation area? Apparently, he was able to get the money to leave, so why didn't he? What on earth was the purpose for him staying? And if there were enough people to raise $25,000, why wasn't any of this done ***before the damned hurricane*** in the first place? (I mean, get together, pool cash, get the fuck out of the time bomb...) Sigh.....just my thoughts. Take it, leave it, whatever. Just a guess here Michele but I'd wager he and his group decided it would be cool to ride out a hurricaine. What stories they would have to tell their friends back home. Why they could even get cool T-shirts printed that said "I survived Hurricaine Katrina". and write a book! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #32 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteUm, I have a question about this, corroborated or not... He opens with the sentence "Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked." Which means he stayed in NOLA after the mandatory evacuation orders were received... I agree. The professor was on a little adventure, and it back fired. I don't condone what happened to him by law enforcement officers, but he should have got the fuck out of Dodge. I used to evacuate the oil rigs and then evacuate the aircraft as far as the Dallas area (we learned the hard way). Did it for years. The oil companies evacuated earlier and better each year because of liability and lots of pratice. More than once I drove from Venice to Lake Charles during an evacuation thinking the people staying behind were stupid or poor. I forgot about the brave healthcare workers. Hats off to them.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #33 September 20, 2005 This is addressed to everyone who has been blaming "the professor" for his predicament, not specifically just to rickjump1. The professor was in New Orleans for a CONFERENCE not an "adventure". New Orleans promotes (promoted?) itself as a conference and tourism destination. At any time there are several thousand conferees/tourists from out of town in the city. Almost all have flown in. So what do you think would happen in any city in the world if every out-of-town visitor shows up at the airport at the same time and demands a seat on a departing flight? Is there any city anywhere that requires airlines to hold enough seats open to evacuate all the visitors? Same for car rental companies, can you imagine how they would squeal if they were required to have available at all times enough cars to accommodate everyone who needs to leave? Take the bus? Train? Same issue. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having their own private helicopter on standby in case they need to "get out of Dodge" on 2 hours notice. Comparing a large city full of out-of-town visitors with no personal means of transportation to a private company evacuating their own people from oil rigs is just silly. Some have suggested, in other threads, that those without transportation should have started walking. Leaving aside the wisdom of attempting to hike at least 100 miles in a category 4 hurricane (and the storm was still hurricane strength for over 150 miles inland), in this case people did try to walk out, and they were blocked and threatened with being shot if they didn't turn back. Enough with blaming the professor, and the other thousands of tourists and conferees who found themselves trapped in the same situation. They were abandoned by everybody who had any authority, power, and responsibility to help them. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #34 September 20, 2005 I keep visualizing a Simpson's episode: Fire drill at the Nuclear Power Plant. People running in circles, fighting, destroying property. Finally, a long time later (Burns and Smithers are waiting outside with the stop watch), Homer gets out the door, drags a bench in front of the door to block it and runs up, "I think I won Mr. Burns. What do I win?" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #35 September 20, 2005 QuoteThis is addressed to everyone who has been blaming "the professor" for his predicament, not specifically just to rickjump1. The professor was in New Orleans for a CONFERENCE not an "adventure". New Orleans promotes (promoted?) itself as a conference and tourism destination. At any time there are several thousand conferees/tourists from out of town in the city. Almost all have flown in. So what do you think would happen in any city in the world if every out-of-town visitor shows up at the airport at the same time and demands a seat on a departing flight? Is there any city anywhere that requires airlines to hold enough seats open to evacuate all the visitors? Same for car rental companies, can you imagine how they would squeal if they were required to have available at all times enough cars to accommodate everyone who needs to leave? Take the bus? Train? Same issue. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having their own private helicopter on standby in case they need to "get out of Dodge" on 2 hours notice. Comparing a large city full of out-of-town visitors with no personal means of transportation to a private company evacuating their own people from oil rigs is just silly. Some have suggested, in other threads, that those without transportation should have started walking. Leaving aside the wisdom of attempting to hike at least 100 miles in a category 4 hurricane (and the storm was still hurricane strength for over 150 miles inland), in this case people did try to walk out, and they were blocked and threatened with being shot if they didn't turn back. Enough with blaming the professor, and the other thousands of tourists and conferees who found themselves trapped in the same situation. They were abandoned by everybody who had any authority, power, and responsibility to help them. Don Perhaps, but you don't know that was what happened as I don't know that this was a Hurricaine Party gone bad. I do find it interesting that he begins his dramatic story 2 days after Katrina and never addresses how he came to be in this situation which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason. If any of your suggestions about the potential barricades to his departure were true, don't you think he would have included them to make his story even more dramatic? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #36 September 20, 2005 His name, address, phone number and email address are all posted here. Why not just ask him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #37 September 20, 2005 QuoteWhat do any of your questions/statements have to do with what he states happened??? She was raped?! Well, what was she doing walking down the street without a bra??? As was stated, the analogy failed. While what happened to the Professor after he chose to not evacuate is untenable, I can't help but wonder what he was doing there in the first place. Jen, I can't help but read your response as an over reaction to a comment you didn't agree with...sorry, but if you can clarify why the analogy works, or why it was proper that the Professor stayed, please do... As for him being at a conference, I doubt that the mandatory evac order (or indeed, common sense) precluded leaving before it was done. I've left seminars before they were complete as well, with no ill effect, and not under an evacuation order. Was there government failures from bottom to top? Yes, of course. But why some people who could've left (and note his "story" picks up several days after the mandatory evac. order and hurricane, and (possibly) the levy breaks all occurred) and chose to not leave still amazes me. As stated in an earlier post, the absolute only way I'd stay in a mandatory evac. area is if my 82 y/o father refused to leave, and I had somehow broken both arms and couldn't manhandle him into the car. He gives no explanation as to why he remained; where were the others in the conference? Not usually is a conference attended by only a dozen people... Dunno...just dunno. Maybe it is about an adventure gone wrong; maybe it is a classic opportunity to study first hand human nature when society breaks down. Or maybe it's about a book...I just dunno. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #38 September 20, 2005 >After a disaster is declared, *AND* after a formal request from the >state governor. They fudged that part . . . -------------- Date: 8/27/2005 Contact:Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037 Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina BATON ROUGE—Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows: August 27, 2005 The President The White House Washington, D. C. Through: Regional Director FEMA Region VI 800 North Loop 288 Denton, Texas 76209 Dear Mr. President: Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina. In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan. Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #39 September 20, 2005 QuoteHis name, address, phone number and email address are all posted here. Why not just ask him? If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known or he would have included it in his essay. Plus, I really don't care. I can empathize with someone who was too poor or too ignorant. He was neither, so we have to assume there was another reason and I don't think it was dramatic enough or made "the man" look bad, so he didn't include it. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #40 September 20, 2005 You know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #41 September 20, 2005 QuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #42 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim" crowd has been assuming all through this thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,440 #43 September 20, 2005 Quoteconference attendees like ourselvesis from his original article. I would tend to think he was at a conference. When I go to conferences in cities (not that often any more, darn it) I am taken to the conference hotel -- I don't have a car. There were stories of conference attendees stranded in NO -- maybe he was one of them? And if he had decided to go ahead and fly home 2 days before the storm struck, it would have been money out of his pocket almost certainly -- I know that if I make a decision like that on my own the fare change is on me. In retrospect, the college might have covered it. But in retrospect, I should have worked harder in high school, too. Not everyone who is in bad circumstances is stupid and improvident for getting there. Or maybe they are, but it doesn't change the facts of what they experienced. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #44 September 20, 2005 Quote Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina Interesting. Which raises a question I haven't heard any answers to... Even if they put them on buses before Katrina hit, where were they going to put them?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #45 September 20, 2005 There appears to be a very large "blame the victim" movement growing in this country. I guess that's easier than acknowledging the problems and working towards a solution. We treated the tsnumani victims with more dignity and respect than our own citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #46 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim able-bodied that could have left but didn't" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. Fixed that for ya... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #47 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim able-bodied that could have left but didn't" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. Fixed that for ya... No, you just corrupted it with another assumption. So, what do you say now about the date the emergency was declared? Still going to go on and on about how FEMA had to wait (but the US Coast Guard didn't)?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #48 September 20, 2005 No Mike, his assumption is the guy stayed by choice for a stupid reason and he has no interest in confirming whether or not that's true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #49 September 20, 2005 >Fixed that for ya... Ah. So you blame the EMT's who stayed because they thought they could help? The bastards! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #50 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. As has the "Blame the Government" crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 2 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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StevePhelps 0 #31 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteAll right, so why did he stay again? What was the purpose of intentionally staying in an evacuation area? Apparently, he was able to get the money to leave, so why didn't he? What on earth was the purpose for him staying? And if there were enough people to raise $25,000, why wasn't any of this done ***before the damned hurricane*** in the first place? (I mean, get together, pool cash, get the fuck out of the time bomb...) Sigh.....just my thoughts. Take it, leave it, whatever. Just a guess here Michele but I'd wager he and his group decided it would be cool to ride out a hurricaine. What stories they would have to tell their friends back home. Why they could even get cool T-shirts printed that said "I survived Hurricaine Katrina". and write a book! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #32 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteUm, I have a question about this, corroborated or not... He opens with the sentence "Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked." Which means he stayed in NOLA after the mandatory evacuation orders were received... I agree. The professor was on a little adventure, and it back fired. I don't condone what happened to him by law enforcement officers, but he should have got the fuck out of Dodge. I used to evacuate the oil rigs and then evacuate the aircraft as far as the Dallas area (we learned the hard way). Did it for years. The oil companies evacuated earlier and better each year because of liability and lots of pratice. More than once I drove from Venice to Lake Charles during an evacuation thinking the people staying behind were stupid or poor. I forgot about the brave healthcare workers. Hats off to them.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #33 September 20, 2005 This is addressed to everyone who has been blaming "the professor" for his predicament, not specifically just to rickjump1. The professor was in New Orleans for a CONFERENCE not an "adventure". New Orleans promotes (promoted?) itself as a conference and tourism destination. At any time there are several thousand conferees/tourists from out of town in the city. Almost all have flown in. So what do you think would happen in any city in the world if every out-of-town visitor shows up at the airport at the same time and demands a seat on a departing flight? Is there any city anywhere that requires airlines to hold enough seats open to evacuate all the visitors? Same for car rental companies, can you imagine how they would squeal if they were required to have available at all times enough cars to accommodate everyone who needs to leave? Take the bus? Train? Same issue. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having their own private helicopter on standby in case they need to "get out of Dodge" on 2 hours notice. Comparing a large city full of out-of-town visitors with no personal means of transportation to a private company evacuating their own people from oil rigs is just silly. Some have suggested, in other threads, that those without transportation should have started walking. Leaving aside the wisdom of attempting to hike at least 100 miles in a category 4 hurricane (and the storm was still hurricane strength for over 150 miles inland), in this case people did try to walk out, and they were blocked and threatened with being shot if they didn't turn back. Enough with blaming the professor, and the other thousands of tourists and conferees who found themselves trapped in the same situation. They were abandoned by everybody who had any authority, power, and responsibility to help them. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #34 September 20, 2005 I keep visualizing a Simpson's episode: Fire drill at the Nuclear Power Plant. People running in circles, fighting, destroying property. Finally, a long time later (Burns and Smithers are waiting outside with the stop watch), Homer gets out the door, drags a bench in front of the door to block it and runs up, "I think I won Mr. Burns. What do I win?" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #35 September 20, 2005 QuoteThis is addressed to everyone who has been blaming "the professor" for his predicament, not specifically just to rickjump1. The professor was in New Orleans for a CONFERENCE not an "adventure". New Orleans promotes (promoted?) itself as a conference and tourism destination. At any time there are several thousand conferees/tourists from out of town in the city. Almost all have flown in. So what do you think would happen in any city in the world if every out-of-town visitor shows up at the airport at the same time and demands a seat on a departing flight? Is there any city anywhere that requires airlines to hold enough seats open to evacuate all the visitors? Same for car rental companies, can you imagine how they would squeal if they were required to have available at all times enough cars to accommodate everyone who needs to leave? Take the bus? Train? Same issue. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having their own private helicopter on standby in case they need to "get out of Dodge" on 2 hours notice. Comparing a large city full of out-of-town visitors with no personal means of transportation to a private company evacuating their own people from oil rigs is just silly. Some have suggested, in other threads, that those without transportation should have started walking. Leaving aside the wisdom of attempting to hike at least 100 miles in a category 4 hurricane (and the storm was still hurricane strength for over 150 miles inland), in this case people did try to walk out, and they were blocked and threatened with being shot if they didn't turn back. Enough with blaming the professor, and the other thousands of tourists and conferees who found themselves trapped in the same situation. They were abandoned by everybody who had any authority, power, and responsibility to help them. Don Perhaps, but you don't know that was what happened as I don't know that this was a Hurricaine Party gone bad. I do find it interesting that he begins his dramatic story 2 days after Katrina and never addresses how he came to be in this situation which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason. If any of your suggestions about the potential barricades to his departure were true, don't you think he would have included them to make his story even more dramatic? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #36 September 20, 2005 His name, address, phone number and email address are all posted here. Why not just ask him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #37 September 20, 2005 QuoteWhat do any of your questions/statements have to do with what he states happened??? She was raped?! Well, what was she doing walking down the street without a bra??? As was stated, the analogy failed. While what happened to the Professor after he chose to not evacuate is untenable, I can't help but wonder what he was doing there in the first place. Jen, I can't help but read your response as an over reaction to a comment you didn't agree with...sorry, but if you can clarify why the analogy works, or why it was proper that the Professor stayed, please do... As for him being at a conference, I doubt that the mandatory evac order (or indeed, common sense) precluded leaving before it was done. I've left seminars before they were complete as well, with no ill effect, and not under an evacuation order. Was there government failures from bottom to top? Yes, of course. But why some people who could've left (and note his "story" picks up several days after the mandatory evac. order and hurricane, and (possibly) the levy breaks all occurred) and chose to not leave still amazes me. As stated in an earlier post, the absolute only way I'd stay in a mandatory evac. area is if my 82 y/o father refused to leave, and I had somehow broken both arms and couldn't manhandle him into the car. He gives no explanation as to why he remained; where were the others in the conference? Not usually is a conference attended by only a dozen people... Dunno...just dunno. Maybe it is about an adventure gone wrong; maybe it is a classic opportunity to study first hand human nature when society breaks down. Or maybe it's about a book...I just dunno. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #38 September 20, 2005 >After a disaster is declared, *AND* after a formal request from the >state governor. They fudged that part . . . -------------- Date: 8/27/2005 Contact:Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037 Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina BATON ROUGE—Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows: August 27, 2005 The President The White House Washington, D. C. Through: Regional Director FEMA Region VI 800 North Loop 288 Denton, Texas 76209 Dear Mr. President: Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina. In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan. Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #39 September 20, 2005 QuoteHis name, address, phone number and email address are all posted here. Why not just ask him? If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known or he would have included it in his essay. Plus, I really don't care. I can empathize with someone who was too poor or too ignorant. He was neither, so we have to assume there was another reason and I don't think it was dramatic enough or made "the man" look bad, so he didn't include it. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #40 September 20, 2005 You know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #41 September 20, 2005 QuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #42 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim" crowd has been assuming all through this thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,440 #43 September 20, 2005 Quoteconference attendees like ourselvesis from his original article. I would tend to think he was at a conference. When I go to conferences in cities (not that often any more, darn it) I am taken to the conference hotel -- I don't have a car. There were stories of conference attendees stranded in NO -- maybe he was one of them? And if he had decided to go ahead and fly home 2 days before the storm struck, it would have been money out of his pocket almost certainly -- I know that if I make a decision like that on my own the fare change is on me. In retrospect, the college might have covered it. But in retrospect, I should have worked harder in high school, too. Not everyone who is in bad circumstances is stupid and improvident for getting there. Or maybe they are, but it doesn't change the facts of what they experienced. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #44 September 20, 2005 Quote Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina Interesting. Which raises a question I haven't heard any answers to... Even if they put them on buses before Katrina hit, where were they going to put them?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #45 September 20, 2005 There appears to be a very large "blame the victim" movement growing in this country. I guess that's easier than acknowledging the problems and working towards a solution. We treated the tsnumani victims with more dignity and respect than our own citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #46 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim able-bodied that could have left but didn't" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. Fixed that for ya... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #47 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim able-bodied that could have left but didn't" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. Fixed that for ya... No, you just corrupted it with another assumption. So, what do you say now about the date the emergency was declared? Still going to go on and on about how FEMA had to wait (but the US Coast Guard didn't)?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #48 September 20, 2005 No Mike, his assumption is the guy stayed by choice for a stupid reason and he has no interest in confirming whether or not that's true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #49 September 20, 2005 >Fixed that for ya... Ah. So you blame the EMT's who stayed because they thought they could help? The bastards! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #50 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. As has the "Blame the Government" crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 2 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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GeorgiaDon 362 #33 September 20, 2005 This is addressed to everyone who has been blaming "the professor" for his predicament, not specifically just to rickjump1. The professor was in New Orleans for a CONFERENCE not an "adventure". New Orleans promotes (promoted?) itself as a conference and tourism destination. At any time there are several thousand conferees/tourists from out of town in the city. Almost all have flown in. So what do you think would happen in any city in the world if every out-of-town visitor shows up at the airport at the same time and demands a seat on a departing flight? Is there any city anywhere that requires airlines to hold enough seats open to evacuate all the visitors? Same for car rental companies, can you imagine how they would squeal if they were required to have available at all times enough cars to accommodate everyone who needs to leave? Take the bus? Train? Same issue. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having their own private helicopter on standby in case they need to "get out of Dodge" on 2 hours notice. Comparing a large city full of out-of-town visitors with no personal means of transportation to a private company evacuating their own people from oil rigs is just silly. Some have suggested, in other threads, that those without transportation should have started walking. Leaving aside the wisdom of attempting to hike at least 100 miles in a category 4 hurricane (and the storm was still hurricane strength for over 150 miles inland), in this case people did try to walk out, and they were blocked and threatened with being shot if they didn't turn back. Enough with blaming the professor, and the other thousands of tourists and conferees who found themselves trapped in the same situation. They were abandoned by everybody who had any authority, power, and responsibility to help them. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 September 20, 2005 I keep visualizing a Simpson's episode: Fire drill at the Nuclear Power Plant. People running in circles, fighting, destroying property. Finally, a long time later (Burns and Smithers are waiting outside with the stop watch), Homer gets out the door, drags a bench in front of the door to block it and runs up, "I think I won Mr. Burns. What do I win?" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #35 September 20, 2005 QuoteThis is addressed to everyone who has been blaming "the professor" for his predicament, not specifically just to rickjump1. The professor was in New Orleans for a CONFERENCE not an "adventure". New Orleans promotes (promoted?) itself as a conference and tourism destination. At any time there are several thousand conferees/tourists from out of town in the city. Almost all have flown in. So what do you think would happen in any city in the world if every out-of-town visitor shows up at the airport at the same time and demands a seat on a departing flight? Is there any city anywhere that requires airlines to hold enough seats open to evacuate all the visitors? Same for car rental companies, can you imagine how they would squeal if they were required to have available at all times enough cars to accommodate everyone who needs to leave? Take the bus? Train? Same issue. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having their own private helicopter on standby in case they need to "get out of Dodge" on 2 hours notice. Comparing a large city full of out-of-town visitors with no personal means of transportation to a private company evacuating their own people from oil rigs is just silly. Some have suggested, in other threads, that those without transportation should have started walking. Leaving aside the wisdom of attempting to hike at least 100 miles in a category 4 hurricane (and the storm was still hurricane strength for over 150 miles inland), in this case people did try to walk out, and they were blocked and threatened with being shot if they didn't turn back. Enough with blaming the professor, and the other thousands of tourists and conferees who found themselves trapped in the same situation. They were abandoned by everybody who had any authority, power, and responsibility to help them. Don Perhaps, but you don't know that was what happened as I don't know that this was a Hurricaine Party gone bad. I do find it interesting that he begins his dramatic story 2 days after Katrina and never addresses how he came to be in this situation which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason. If any of your suggestions about the potential barricades to his departure were true, don't you think he would have included them to make his story even more dramatic? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #36 September 20, 2005 His name, address, phone number and email address are all posted here. Why not just ask him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #37 September 20, 2005 QuoteWhat do any of your questions/statements have to do with what he states happened??? She was raped?! Well, what was she doing walking down the street without a bra??? As was stated, the analogy failed. While what happened to the Professor after he chose to not evacuate is untenable, I can't help but wonder what he was doing there in the first place. Jen, I can't help but read your response as an over reaction to a comment you didn't agree with...sorry, but if you can clarify why the analogy works, or why it was proper that the Professor stayed, please do... As for him being at a conference, I doubt that the mandatory evac order (or indeed, common sense) precluded leaving before it was done. I've left seminars before they were complete as well, with no ill effect, and not under an evacuation order. Was there government failures from bottom to top? Yes, of course. But why some people who could've left (and note his "story" picks up several days after the mandatory evac. order and hurricane, and (possibly) the levy breaks all occurred) and chose to not leave still amazes me. As stated in an earlier post, the absolute only way I'd stay in a mandatory evac. area is if my 82 y/o father refused to leave, and I had somehow broken both arms and couldn't manhandle him into the car. He gives no explanation as to why he remained; where were the others in the conference? Not usually is a conference attended by only a dozen people... Dunno...just dunno. Maybe it is about an adventure gone wrong; maybe it is a classic opportunity to study first hand human nature when society breaks down. Or maybe it's about a book...I just dunno. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #38 September 20, 2005 >After a disaster is declared, *AND* after a formal request from the >state governor. They fudged that part . . . -------------- Date: 8/27/2005 Contact:Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037 Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina BATON ROUGE—Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows: August 27, 2005 The President The White House Washington, D. C. Through: Regional Director FEMA Region VI 800 North Loop 288 Denton, Texas 76209 Dear Mr. President: Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina. In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan. Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #39 September 20, 2005 QuoteHis name, address, phone number and email address are all posted here. Why not just ask him? If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known or he would have included it in his essay. Plus, I really don't care. I can empathize with someone who was too poor or too ignorant. He was neither, so we have to assume there was another reason and I don't think it was dramatic enough or made "the man" look bad, so he didn't include it. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #40 September 20, 2005 You know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #41 September 20, 2005 QuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #42 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim" crowd has been assuming all through this thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,440 #43 September 20, 2005 Quoteconference attendees like ourselvesis from his original article. I would tend to think he was at a conference. When I go to conferences in cities (not that often any more, darn it) I am taken to the conference hotel -- I don't have a car. There were stories of conference attendees stranded in NO -- maybe he was one of them? And if he had decided to go ahead and fly home 2 days before the storm struck, it would have been money out of his pocket almost certainly -- I know that if I make a decision like that on my own the fare change is on me. In retrospect, the college might have covered it. But in retrospect, I should have worked harder in high school, too. Not everyone who is in bad circumstances is stupid and improvident for getting there. Or maybe they are, but it doesn't change the facts of what they experienced. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #44 September 20, 2005 Quote Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina Interesting. Which raises a question I haven't heard any answers to... Even if they put them on buses before Katrina hit, where were they going to put them?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #45 September 20, 2005 There appears to be a very large "blame the victim" movement growing in this country. I guess that's easier than acknowledging the problems and working towards a solution. We treated the tsnumani victims with more dignity and respect than our own citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #46 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim able-bodied that could have left but didn't" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. Fixed that for ya... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #47 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim able-bodied that could have left but didn't" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. Fixed that for ya... No, you just corrupted it with another assumption. So, what do you say now about the date the emergency was declared? Still going to go on and on about how FEMA had to wait (but the US Coast Guard didn't)?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #48 September 20, 2005 No Mike, his assumption is the guy stayed by choice for a stupid reason and he has no interest in confirming whether or not that's true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #49 September 20, 2005 >Fixed that for ya... Ah. So you blame the EMT's who stayed because they thought they could help? The bastards! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 September 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what they say about people who ASSUME things. Call him a liar on the internet, but by all means, don't ask the man a simple question! I didn't assume anything. I offered an alternative explaination for why he didn't leave. I even stated I didn't know if this was true, and that I was just guessing. I don't see anyone else falling all over themselves to find out why either. And unlike others, at least I'm honest enough to say I really don't care enough to make the call. "which indicates he doesn't want to talk about it for some reason." looks like a pretty good assumption to me. As does "If I thought he would tell me the truth, I might, but he obviously doesn't want it known" The "Blame the victim" crowd has been assuming all through this thread. As has the "Blame the Government" crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
