juanesky 0 #101 September 21, 2005 None. You've been in the armed forces yourself, were you ever instructed to shoot innocent people? I saw very few babies, as they most were evacuated. Most were grateful (particulary the police) we were actually there, armed and ready to protect them, and the city, and putting our asses on the line for and with them."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #102 September 21, 2005 but, but Bill heard the EMT speak!!! it must be truth It is interesting how many will speak of facts...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #103 September 21, 2005 QuoteNone. You've been in the armed forces yourself, were you ever instructed to shoot innocent people? No, but I did get into technical arguments with shipyard personnel on occasion. And one time I saw a cat throw up. I'm still having nightmares on that. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #104 September 21, 2005 LMAO, you are lucky to have missed field excercises army-CB style, as the experience of the "porta-potties/empty oil drums" will be impregnated in your memory till death...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,447 #105 September 21, 2005 Note: your experience is real. The EMT's is real. The people who felt abandoned had real experiences. It's possible for there to have been both good and bad experiences. Really. that is all Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #106 September 21, 2005 QuoteNote: your experience is real. The EMT's is real. The people who felt abandoned had real experiences. It's possible for there to have been both good and bad experiences. Really. that is all Wendy W. Wait so you are saying that if I live in a city and find a good job there and a good life, someone else may live in that city and be poor and downtrodden? that is nuts. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #107 September 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteNote: your experience is real. The EMT's is real. The people who felt abandoned had real experiences. It's possible for there to have been both good and bad experiences. Really. that is all Wendy W. Wait so you are saying that if I live in a city and find a good job there and a good life, someone else may live in that city and be poor and downtrodden? that is nuts. Yep and if enough are, you better hold onto your wallet because the govt. is going to come sniffing around your butt looking for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #108 September 21, 2005 I doubt many of the facts he stated. Whomever he can be. But stating that 2 days after the storm hit, and were not directed to either the convention center (were there was plenty of food and water), or the super dome lacks of a lot of credibility, if you ad, that he magically gathered $25,000 cash (maybe the idea of the ass swiping debit/credit card is a reality for some) and had to get buses, is not based on reality, or at least the New Orleans I saw. I saw plenty of bad experiences as well, it was not a picnic for me either. The people that lost everything had help, and plenty of despair, and I had plenty of empathy for them, and we put our lives on the line for them. We could not compare ourselves with those who lost everything. Same thing goes for all the rescue--law enforcement-out of state personnel that left their homes to chip in with some hard long working days. Your implication that it was a good experience, lacks of real objectivity. And as far as this fantasy of events, that this EMT is "sharing" on the net, I still call BS, the dates, times, and total lack of knowledge where he could have walked and seek water, food, shelter, resources to be evacuated, medical assistance. The Iwo Jima docked on Tuesday (the big ship with medical-surgical capabilites) Sept, 6th, perhaps you did not read my first post in this thread, and there were constantly evacuating people to the naval air base (and from there to elsewhere in the US), or the medical emergencies to this ship, which was about 40 miles from shore. Perhaps the EMT in question, has terrible language deficiencies, or perhaps is handicapped, but even then, the only people I saw stranded there, were the ones in the flooded area, and let me spell this out, the French quarters area was not flooded. Do you understand the words that are coming out of my keyboard?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #109 September 21, 2005 I just wanted to take a minute and say "Thank-you" for serving your country and being in N.O. to help people. I appreciate your efforts and when we meet, I'm buying. Bob - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #110 September 21, 2005 QuoteI hereby christen this tactic Speaker's Corner Tactic #1. It will be closely related to Tactic #1a, the "you're twisting my words!" tactic. Someone's cranky. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #111 September 21, 2005 Quote It is interesting how many will speak of facts.... Just what I was thinking. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #112 September 22, 2005 QuoteQuote It is interesting how many will speak of facts.... Just what I was thinking. And we should blindly believe a mass-emailed story (that has since been debunked) over an eyewitness report from someone that was there, because....?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #113 September 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote It is interesting how many will speak of facts.... Just what I was thinking. And we should blindly believe a mass-emailed story (that has since been debunked) over an eyewitness report from someone that was there, because....? I'm hoping your comments are some type of debating technique gone bad, as opposed to revealing something ...well, not pretty, about yourself. Are you really all about grabbing whatever hook you see and bending perception to fit your need. Amusing as your tactic might be, back to the subject. Are you disagreeing with the details of the original post ...or just pounding your chest and posturing? It might play in Cleveland but really! ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #114 September 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote It is interesting how many will speak of facts.... Just what I was thinking. And we should blindly believe a mass-emailed story (that has since been debunked) over an eyewitness report from someone that was there, because....? I'm hoping your comments are some type of debating technique gone bad, as opposed to revealing something ...well, not pretty, about yourself. Are you really all about grabbing whatever hook you see and bending perception to fit your need. Amusing as your tactic might be, back to the subject. Are you disagreeing with the details of the original post ...or just pounding your chest and posturing? It might play in Cleveland but really! Something "not pretty" about myself...what would that be, since your debate style seems to be flinging thinly veiled insults about the other posters.... Yes, I am disagreeing with the original post. It has been debunked and called false by the so-called author. Your rebuttal?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #115 September 22, 2005 Quote Yes, I am disagreeing with the original post. It has been debunked and called false by the so-called author. Your rebuttal? Actually, the "author" only said that what was false was his authorship. he DID say it was the experience of other people...EMTs who wrote it.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #116 September 22, 2005 I noticed that, but I hold the rest of the article in suspicion. If they falsified the author, what else might they have falsified? I would like to see the accountings from the actual EMT's themselves.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #117 September 22, 2005 QuoteI noticed that, but I hold the rest of the article in suspicion. If they falsified the author, what else might they have falsified? I would like to see the accountings from the actual EMT's themselves. Me too. But I don not have a problem believing some of it...even the part about bad cops. They DO exist. And the situation was a bit crazy. In crazy situations, crazy shit happens.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #118 September 22, 2005 QuoteI noticed that, but I hold the rest of the article in suspicion. If they falsified the author, what else might they have falsified? Some of us feel that way about Bush's claims about yellowcake from Niger when his administration already knew the claims were false.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #119 September 22, 2005 QuoteSomething "not pretty" about myself...what would that be, since your debate style seems to be flinging thinly veiled insults about the other posters.... Perfect example for your question. I'm done with you.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #120 September 22, 2005 >And we should blindly believe a mass-emailed story (that has since been >debunked) over an eyewitness report from someone that was there, because....? I listened to a guy who was there tell his story. So for me it's a question of listening to an eyewitness who was there vs. reading an internet report from an eyewitness who was there. BTW the town of Gretna is now admitting that this happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #121 September 22, 2005 Quote>And we should blindly believe a mass-emailed story (that has since been >debunked) over an eyewitness report from someone that was there, because....? I listened to a guy who was there tell his story. So for me it's a question of listening to an eyewitness who was there vs. reading an internet report from an eyewitness who was there. BTW the town of Gretna is now admitting that this happened. And here are some sources: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gretna16sep16,0,728170.story?coll=la-home-headlines http://washtimes.com/upi/20050908-112433-4907r.htm http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/13/katrina.bridge/ http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9427111/Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #122 September 22, 2005 Ok, I've read the stories... Initial thoughts: 1. Looks like there wasn't any coordination between NO and Gretna. They sent people out without knowing (or finding out) if there was any support for them. 2. Gretna had no support from Federal authorities, as NO did. They had no shelters or provisions to be able to help refugees. 3. Gretna initially let some people through and used local resources to transport them to another location where support was available. A subset of these people decided to loot stores, set fires and rob the inhabitants of the town. To protect themselves and their city, the Gretna Sheriff blocked access to any further people. 4. A couple of San Francisco EMT's are in the crowd that gets turned back. They get home and post their accounts on the Socialist Workers website. I think Gretna did the right thing to protect themselves and their city once the situation broke down. While I am certainly not taking anything away from the EMT's and what happened to them, some of the clips definitely seem a bit... dramatized, shall we say. They certainly didn't waste any time playing the race card.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #123 September 22, 2005 >I think Gretna did the right thing to protect themselves and their >city once the situation broke down. I think threatening to fire on people who are trying to save themselves is disgusting. I guess we will differ on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #124 September 22, 2005 Quote>I think Gretna did the right thing to protect themselves and their >city once the situation broke down. I think threatening to fire on people who are trying to save themselves is disgusting. I guess we will differ on that. Firstly, there's two stories on that - some refugees say they were threatened, the city officials say they weren't. Without corroboration of one side or the other, I stand mute on that point. Secondly, what was Gretna supposed to do? Set up a checkpoint and ask if they were looters, before letting them into a city with no assistance to give them? Please note that all of the stories listed state that there were no supplies, shelter or transportation to give the refugees. "Sure, c'mon in... just take what you want." That attitude among some of the refugees is what caused the problem in the first place.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #125 September 22, 2005 >Firstly, there's two stories on that - some refugees say they were >threatened, the city officials say they weren't. Dude, they sent armed officers to seal a bridge, and turned back people after confrontations. There's no question about that. >Secondly, what was Gretna supposed to do? Try to help the people whose lives were destroyed by a natural disaster. If they couldn't - let them pass on to another town. And this pretty clearly answers the question "why didn't people just leave?" Some people were stopped at gunpoint. >Please note that all of the stories listed state that there were no >supplies, shelter or transportation to give the refugees. So a better solution is to force them to live under an underpass? At some point you have to decide if your priority is property or people. Once again, I don't believe that you'd have this opinion if you were there. If you were in Gretna, you'd try to help these people. If you and your family were one of the refugees, you'd be doing everything in your power to get over that bridge and out of New Orleans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites