I just had a friend tell me this.

[JohnRich 4]

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He is the guy who authored the no-bid (aka help your cronies get rich) contracting policy for Katrina reconstruction work.

Here we go again...

If you want to get reconstruction done fast, you have to award some no bid contracts to companies with a history of doing that kind of job, and capable of doing it immediately. That's because as soon as you go into a process of allowing companies to bid on projects, you're talking about a delay of months before a contractor is chosen and begins work. We don't have that kind of time to waste. In order to get things going now, you award some contracts on the spot to get moving.

There's nothing evil or conspiratorial about that. It's what it takes to make things happen quick.

If Bush didn't do this, then you would be bitching about how he's taking too long to get the reconstruction work started...

Make up your mind. You can have one or the other, but not both.

[JohnRich 4]

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian... but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost...

If one of your students gets caught cheating on an exam, should you be fired as a professor, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

[rehmwa 2]

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Make up your mind. You can have one or the other, but not both.

Yes you can. But if you want to be accurate, the naysayers aren't trying to have one, the other, or both. They choose "neither". And it is what politics are all about.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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If one of your students gets caught cheating on an exam, should you be fired as a professor, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

Now now, professors having students "underneath" them is a completely different topic. Let's stay on track.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[tso-d_chris 0]

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If one of your students gets caught cheating on an exam, should you be fired as a professor, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

You are using flawed logic. Students are the clients (for lack of a better term) of professors, not the subordinates.

[kallend 2,026]

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Funny that Republicans support government intervention in free markets when it suits the interests of business owners, but oppose it when it supports the interests of wage earners.

Funny that both parties have criteria where they feel compelled to intervene in the free market when the free market can take care of itself just fine, thank you. It's not that 'free' if you think about it.

It's also funny that when a government action takes place to remove a specific instance of interference, it's railed on by anyone that can make a political point - related or not.

[It is not in the interest of wage earners to artificially inflate wages in obsolete trades. Better to encourage change and growth - see entry - buggy whips]

They're going to rebuild New Orleans with buggy whips?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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They're going to rebuild New Orleans with buggy whips?

Strong, waterproof, buggy whips. With tassels

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,026]

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian... but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost...

If one of your students gets caught cheating on an exam, should you be fired as a professor, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

I don't get to appoint my students.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian... but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost...

If one of your students gets caught cheating on an exam, should you be fired as a professor, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

I don't get to appoint my students.

Okay, since you want to dodge the principle which you yourself started, let's try again:

You're the head of the physics department. One of the other professors which you hired is found to be sleeping with female students in exchange for good grades. Do you deserve to be terminated along with the guilty underling, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

(Can't wait to see how you duck the question again.)

[kallend 2,026]

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Quote

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian... but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost...

If one of your students gets caught cheating on an exam, should you be fired as a professor, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

I don't get to appoint my students.

Okay, since you want to dodge the principle which you yourself started, let's try again:

You're the head of the physics department. One of the other professors which you hired is found to be sleeping with female students in exchange for good grades. Do you deserve to be terminated along with the guilty underling, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

(Can't wait to see how you duck the question again.)

If I appointed him out of cronyism, then yes.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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You're the head of the physics department. One of the other professors which you hired is found to be sleeping with female students in exchange for good grades. Do you deserve to be terminated along with the guilty underling, because the buck should stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone underneath you?

To make it an accurate metaphor, he would have to know that it is going on, and not do anything about it until it was common knowledge among his entire university student body, and the student boies at most other university, and only then did and only then did anything about it. And, of course, the guilty party would have to lack any sort of qualifying experience.

Then, yeah, he should be canned as well.

[billvon 2,990]

>You're the head of the physics department. One of the other
> professors which you hired is found to be sleeping with female
> students in exchange for good grades. Do you deserve to be
>terminated along with the guilty underling, because the buck should
> stop at the top, and you should be responsible for everyone
> underneath you?

If the only qualification the head of the department considered was that the "professor" donated money to his department, and the "professor's" only work experience was as a porn star, then yes - the head of the department should be fired. Not because he is responsible for what the guy does, but because he was foolish enough to hire a porn star to do the job of a physics professor, and expected things to work out. More importantly, it will prevent him from making such criminally negligent decisions in the future.

[mnealtx 0]

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian (and, for than matter, Brownie) but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost on you.

Ok, cool - so just *WHEN* does Clinton go to prison for espionage?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,026]

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian (and, for than matter, Brownie) but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost on you.

Ok, cool - so just *WHEN* does Clinton go to prison for espionage?

Clinton should resign the presidency immediately. So should Bush.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian (and, for than matter, Brownie) but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost on you.

Ok, cool - so just *WHEN* does Clinton go to prison for espionage?

Whenever you want. If he appointed unqualified cronies to highly important positions and they fucked up, he should pay as well. But as I recall, this was about Bush.

But then, its seems turning anything about Bush to Clinton is a normal tactic.

To use your well turned phrase, you sound like a strawman to me.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Treejumps 0]

Kallend,

If you change your statement ever so slightly, it is still true.

"the government, with its coercive and quasi-monopoly power, should not be in the business of undercutting private enterprise. Authorizing government contractors to pay workers MORE than the normal laws of supply and demand warrant is a distortion of the free market just as much as setting a minimum wage is.

Davis Bacon is a joke, and nothing more than another wealth re-distribution effort. The wages that DB demands is part of why everything the govt. builds costs way more than if built by the private sector.

Still, a valid observation.

[kallend 2,026]

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Kallend,

If you change your statement ever so slightly, it is still true.

"the government, with its coercive and quasi-monopoly power, should not be in the business of undercutting private enterprise. Authorizing government contractors to pay workers MORE than the normal laws of supply and demand warrant is a distortion of the free market just as much as setting a minimum wage is.

Davis Bacon is a joke, and nothing more than another wealth re-distribution effort. The wages that DB demands is part of why everything the govt. builds costs way more than if built by the private sector.

Still, a valid observation.

I don't disagree, but that is not what the administration is doing. Davis Bacon doesn't mandate paying MORE, it mandates NOT paying LESS. We can assume the employers have their own motivation not to pay more. Hence D-B lets the local private market set rates without government induced distortion.

Ever wonder why so many companies scramble so hard to get government contracts? Just so they can pay their workers more?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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Ever wonder why so many companies scramble so hard to get government contracts? Just so they can pay their workers more?

That would depend on just how powerful and crooked their unions are, wouldn't it?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,026]

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Ever wonder why so many companies scramble so hard to get government contracts? Just so they can pay their workers more?

That would depend on just how powerful and crooked their unions are, wouldn't it?

No.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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The buck ought to stop in the office of the guy who appointed Safavian (and, for than matter, Brownie) but the concept of the guy at the top being responsible for anything at all seems to have got lost on you.

Ok, cool - so just *WHEN* does Clinton go to prison for espionage?

Whenever you want. If he appointed unqualified cronies to highly important positions and they fucked up, he should pay as well. But as I recall, this was about Bush.

But then, its seems turning anything about Bush to Clinton is a normal tactic.

To use your well turned phrase, you sound like a strawman to me.

Yes, sort of...and no. My post was somewhat connected (by analogy, at least) to the subject matter of John's post.

I *do* see your point, though.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[livendive 8]

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Davis Bacon is a joke, and nothing more than another wealth re-distribution effort. The wages that DB demands is part of why everything the govt. builds costs way more than if built by the private sector.

I don't know the specifics of the Davis-Bacon act, but I do know that it somehow allows me and my coworkers to routinely step in and do work in an efficient manner that would otherwise have to be done by union workers. If it allows one guy to do something in 1 hour that would otherwise take 3 craftsmen 3 hours, isn't that a good thing?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rehmwa 2]

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, isn't that a good thing?

Ask the union guy, he'll give you a different answer than I would. A couple here appear to also be arguing that it isn't a good thing either. I disagree with them too.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

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If it allows one guy to do something in 1 hour that would otherwise take 3 craftsmen 3 hours, isn't that a good thing?

Well, the important thing here to some people seems to be, not to rebuild New Orleans as quickly as possible while providing employment for the jobless, but rather to make sure that highly skilled workers from out of town make big bucks.

"If you give a man a fish, he will have food for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will have food for a lifetime."
-Ancient Chinese Proverb

What we need to do is teach the poor from New Orleans how to fish. Allow them to learn a trade (carpentry, plumbing, electrical, masonry, etc.) at the entry-level, rebuilding their own city, and they will have a job and prosperity for a lifetime.

If we just keep throwing them fish every day, letting others do the work for them, they'll never do anything except be on the public dole, waiting for more fish to be thrown their way.

This is a golden opportunity to turn fish-takers into fishermen.

[EricTheRed 0]

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If it allows one guy to do something in 1 hour that would otherwise take 3 craftsmen 3 hours, isn't that a good thing?

Well, the important thing here to some people seems to be, not to rebuild New Orleans as quickly as possible while providing employment for the jobless, but rather to make sure that highly skilled workers from out of town make big bucks.

"If you give a man a fish, he will have food for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will have food for a lifetime."
-Ancient Chinese Proverb

What we need to do is teach the poor from New Orleans how to fish. Allow them to learn a trade (carpentry, plumbing, electrical, masonry, etc.) at the entry-level, rebuilding their own city, and they will have a job and prosperity for a lifetime.

If we just keep throwing them fish every day, letting others do the work for them, they'll never do anything except be on the public dole, waiting for more fish to be thrown their way.

This is a golden opportunity to turn fish-takers into fishermen.

Agreed 100%. You also need to make sure that there are fish worth catching. By this I mean that there need to be jobs available for these people to do, once trained, that will pay well enough that they will keep "fishing"

Where do we need more labor?
According to BLS we need
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos060.htm

Kinda ironic ain't it.

illegible usually

[kallend 2,026]

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If it allows one guy to do something in 1 hour that would otherwise take 3 craftsmen 3 hours, isn't that a good thing?

Well, the important thing here to some people seems to be, not to rebuild New Orleans as quickly as possible while providing employment for the jobless, but rather to make sure that highly skilled workers from out of town make big bucks.

"If you give a man a fish, he will have food for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will have food for a lifetime."
.

Well, if time is not of the essence, why relax the no-bid-contract rules to speed things up? Since they have, we must assume time is of the essence, so training unskilled folks on the job seems inappropriate. This has not been advertized as a job training program, but a reconstruction program.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.