Night and Day Difference

[tcnelson 1]

huh...how about that. it's like an example of when civil engineers design the roadways to handle a maximum of 30% of the population at any one given time and then, all of a sudden, the entire population needs to use the roadways all at once!

this couldn't be predicted!! oh the humanity!! why can't america be more tolerant of the terminally stupid!! after all, we're america...we grow and harvest the most ignorant people on the face of the planet on a daily basis by our own actions.

oh well...maybe the government will save us...because "they" have an unlimited supply of money that they print off in case of emergencies.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Muenkel 0]

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huh...how about that. it's like an example of when civil engineers design the roadways to handle a maximum of 30% of the population at any one given time and then, all of a sudden, the entire population needs to use the roadways all at once!

this couldn't be predicted!! oh the humanity!! why can't america be more tolerant of the terminally stupid!! after all, we're america...we grow and harvest the most ignorant people on the face of the planet on a daily basis by our own actions.

oh well...maybe the government will save us...because "they" have an unlimited supply of money that they print off in case of emergencies.

Bingo! So many observers can always do it better. I wonder how any of these Einsteins would plan the evacuation of Long Island should a Cat 5 be heading its' way. Whose fault would it be if that happened. Bush, Hillary, Schumer, Pataki, County Executives...or maybe the citizens?

_________________________________________
Chris

[Guest 1010]

It'll never happen well unless it is practiced. Are you willing to practice a full evacuation of a city? It'll probably cost some lives, and some jobs and lost corporate and govt revenue due to the lost days of work. How many politicians will be up for that? None in this country.

If you need the government to save you, you are already lost.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[tcnelson 1]

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It'll never happen well unless it is practiced. Are you willing to practice a full evacuation of a city? It'll probably cost some lives, and some jobs and lost corporate and govt revenue due to the lost days of work. How many politicians will be up for that? None in this country.

If you need the government to save you, you are already lost.

i'm saying that i can survive in the worst of situations based upon the knowledge that i've gained by not being stupid.
i'm fully capable of using my resources to outlive the ignorant and weak that my country seems to be full of these days.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Guest 1010]

good you you.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[tcnelson 1]

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good you you.

right on...didn't mean to be defensive but, i'll admit that this crap makes my blood boil! oh well, the earth rotates regardless heh?

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Guest 1010]

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oh well, the earth rotates regardless heh?

I heard Halliburton got the no-bid contract to put a stop to the earth's rotation, something about trying to decrease the number hurricanes, because they are messing up the oil supply.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[kallend 2,107]

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huh...how about that. it's like an example of when civil engineers design the roadways to handle a maximum of 30% of the population at any one given time and then, all of a sudden, the entire population needs to use the roadways all at once!

this couldn't be predicted!! oh the humanity!! why can't america be more tolerant of the terminally stupid!! after all, we're america...we grow and harvest the most ignorant people on the face of the planet on a daily basis by our own actions.

oh well...maybe the government will save us...because "they" have an unlimited supply of money that they print off in case of emergencies.

Are you saying it's no better than the NOLA evacuation then?

Many were saying that fiasco was due to stupid people staying behind and poor local planning, but you say now, in Texas, it's due to the highways?

I can't actually figure out what you're saying.


However, from the reports I read and saw this morning I don't think "Night and Day Difference" is particularly accurate.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,107]

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huh...how about that. it's like an example of when civil engineers design the roadways to handle a maximum of 30% of the population at any one given time and then, all of a sudden, the entire population needs to use the roadways all at once!

this couldn't be predicted!! oh the humanity!! why can't america be more tolerant of the terminally stupid!! after all, we're america...we grow and harvest the most ignorant people on the face of the planet on a daily basis by our own actions.

oh well...maybe the government will save us...because "they" have an unlimited supply of money that they print off in case of emergencies.

Bingo! So many observers can always do it better. I wonder how any of these Einsteins would plan the evacuation of Long Island should a Cat 5 be heading its' way. Whose fault would it be if that happened. Bush, Hillary, Schumer, Pataki, County Executives...or maybe the citizens?

No - the engineers who designed the roads. How did they escape the blame for Katrina?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,077]

>it's like an example of when civil engineers design the roadways to
> handle a maximum of 30% of the population at any one given time
> and then, all of a sudden, the entire population needs to use the
> roadways all at once!

Yep. The solution in New Orleans was to open up both sides of the freeways for single-direction traffic. It worked there. Unfortunately they started that too late in Houston.

And before you get all spooled up, it was no one's "fault." For god's sakes, the hurricane isn't even here yet and people are looking for scapegoats! How about we wait until _after_ the hurricane hits before we start blamestorming?

[kelpdiver 2]

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I've been hearing reports of massive traffic jams . One guy said he had only gone 75 miles in 24 hours. There are reports of many motorists running out of gas do to the extended idling!!!

sheesh - I think I could bicycle faster, though I tend to start bonking at 25 miles. But that's less than 2 hours in.

I don't think I could drive 3 miles per hour. I'd rather face the storm than that.

[billvon 3,077]

>sheesh - I think I could bicycle faster . . .

As I recall, several people here (Gawain and Lisamarie among others) suggested walking was a way to evacuate. Do these people still think so?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

and those that stayed behind were stupid and deserved what they got.

[kelpdiver 2]

30, maybe 40 miles is as far as I think one could go on foot in a day, unless Martians are firing weapons. And that would be carrying minimal stuff, whereas the bike would allow a little extra weight.

[EricTheRed 0]

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oh well...maybe the government will save us...because "they" have an unlimited supply of money that they print off in case of emergencies

You might want to break it to your republican friends that this statement is intended to be sarcastic. I think they have forgotten that little fact as they spend our $$.

illegible usually

[tcnelson 1]

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oh well...maybe the government will save us...because "they" have an unlimited supply of money that they print off in case of emergencies

You might want to break it to your republican politician friends that this statement is intended to be sarcastic. I think they have forgotten that little fact as they spend our $$.

i think this is more accurate. the republicans are in charge right now but, wasteful expenditures by the govt. are not only six years old.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[JohnRich 4]

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30, maybe 40 miles is as far as I think one could go on foot in a day.

Negative. A really top notch hiker or soldier might go 25 in a day. Most hikers will stop after 10 or 15 in a day. 30 or 40 miles would be impossible by almost everyone.

Even with a several week head start on foot, you couldn't outrun this storm.

[billvon 3,077]

>Even with a several week head start on foot, you couldn't outrun this storm.

Interesting. So the people who advised the New Orleans evacuees to walk were giving potentially deadly advice.

[Gawain 0]

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30, maybe 40 miles is as far as I think one could go on foot in a day.

Negative. A really top notch hiker or soldier might go 25 in a day. Most hikers will stop after 10 or 15 in a day. 30 or 40 miles would be impossible by almost everyone.

Even with a several week head start on foot, you couldn't outrun this storm.

I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you. A slow walk could net slow walkers people 12 miles in under 6 hours. A couple days, a few days could get someone to move laterally out of the way of danger.

A fit person could do 12 miles in 3 hours, with supplies for a couple days +/-...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[EricTheRed 0]

I'll fully support that statement. HOWEVER, the Dems have never portrayed themselves as being fiscally conservative.

(does tax and spend liberal ring a bell?)

the R's on the other hand have trumpeted far and wide how they are oh so financially responsible.

It's not the spending, it's the hypocrisy

illegible usually

[JohnRich 4]

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>Even with a several week head start on foot, you couldn't outrun this storm.

Interesting. So the people who advised the New Orleans evacuees to walk were giving potentially deadly advice.

No, I think all they had to do was walk a few miles to get to ground that was above sea level. That was just to avoid the flooding. But you still couldn't walk enough to stay ahead of the approaching storm. The storm moves 24 hours a day. A human can't keep up that pace.

[JohnRich 4]

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I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you.

Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

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A slow walk could net slow walkers people 12 miles in under 6 hours. A couple days, a few days could get someone to move laterally out of the way of danger.

Well, I think this disagreement may be a definition problem. I was thinking that the diameter of the area with strong winds is going to be maybe 100 miles across. So even if you do 20 miles a day, it would take you five days to get out of the way. And if you're like the Indians 200 years ago without modern weather technology, you don't realize it's coming until it's about one or two days away. So you're screwed.

So it all depends upon what distance we're talking about, how much lead time you have, and how much knowledge you have about which way to go.

[JohnRich 4]

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And before you get all spooled up, it was no one's "fault." For god's sakes, the hurricane isn't even here yet and people are looking for scapegoats! How about we wait until _after_ the hurricane hits before we start blamestorming?

Ditto on that.

Yeah, there were traffic jams getting out of Houston. And gas shortages. Heck, even on normal weekdays the freeways are jammed during rush hours.

But look at what was accomplished. In the fourth largest city in America, about 2.5 million people have evacuated further inland in just two days. I think that's a remarkable achievement. It may be the biggest population movement in the shortest time in U.S. history.

Houston Mayor Bill White deserves a gold star for his performance, both for assistance to Katrina victims, and for what he's done so far here in Houston for Rita.

Status: overcast clouds have moved in, and the wind is now gusting to about 30 mph. My lights have blinked off and on four times. So it begins. It's going to be a long night, but I've got candles, and good books to read.

[kelpdiver 2]

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30, maybe 40 miles is as far as I think one could go on foot in a day.

Negative. A really top notch hiker or soldier might go 25 in a day. Most hikers will stop after 10 or 15 in a day. 30 or 40 miles would be impossible by almost everyone.

sorry, not going to agree. I did a marathon a couple months back with no training, and 30lbs over my ideal racing weight. (And the night before I was jumping at Elsinore and 'carbo loaded' on pizza and beer. Still finished in less than 6, with me walking the last 10 miles at 15min/mile pace. Afterwards, walked another mile to the car, and in traveling home to SF, got in at least a couple more walking about.

Thousands do Half Dome in Yosemite, which is 17 miles with a very substantial 4800 ft elevation climb.

Given 24 hours to evacuate, scores of people would make 30 or 40. Unfortunately, it sounds like they're trying to go 75 or 80. For the vast majority, that 30-40 would be a one time shot. The next day is going to be a slow one.

[gemini 0]

I'm biased so take with a grain of salt:

I would say B and then A.

Why B?: These plans have been in place since hurricane carla hit in the 60's and since 911. It's not something you can throw together in 1 month since Katrina. Plus the governor and houston mayor and county judge work very closely together in disaster planning because of the refineries and medical center.

Why A?: All the peeps saw what happened in Alabama and Mississippi with Katrian and knew what would happen to them in a direct hit. Of course Galveston is a little sensitive to hurricanes because of their history.

Did everything go perfectly as planned? Nope.

Can it be done better? Yep.

Did we learn anything for the next time? Yep

I have heard talk of staging gasoline tankers about 90-100 miles out with water stations, and initiating contraflow lanes with the first declaration of emergency to start with.

Blue skies,

Jim