JoeyRamone 0 #1 September 23, 2005 I agree with this. I feel Gay Priests have no business in the church, just my opinion and i could careless if you are gay or not, i just do not want some gay priest teaching my kids the rights and wrongs of life. They are suppost to practice celibacy right? The Pope to exclude gay priests By Hilary Clarke in Rome and Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent (Filed: 23/09/2005) The Roman Catholic Church is preparing to bar homosexuals from becoming priests even if they are celibate in what could prove to be a defining act of Benedict XVI's papacy. An "instruction" spelling out the policy has been drafted by the Congregation for Catholic Education and Seminaries. Pope Benedict XVI considers homosexuality 'disordered' Vatican officials say it is expected to be published within weeks. The long-awaited policy review was initiated three years ago by the late Pope John Paul II, who died in April. It has been fought over bitterly among the Catholic hierarchy amid fears that it will trigger a witch hunt against gay clergy and increase the current shortage of candidates to the priesthood. But conservatives say it is needed to redress the balance after a period of liberalisation in theological colleges, particularly in America. The news of the impending publication was leaked to the American press in what some Vatican insiders believe could be a ploy to test the level of feeling about the issue among Catholics in America. Gay Catholic groups in the US fear that the document could make homosexuals a scapegoat for the child abuse scandals that hit the Catholic Church in America in 2002. More than 80 per cent of the 11,000 alleged victims of abuse by Catholic priests in the US were young males. Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger headed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican body charged with looking into the abuse claims, is said to have been horrified by many of the cases. He has made clearing up the image of the Church one of the priorities of his papacy. He has also consistently taken a hard line on homosexuality, condemning it as "intrinsically disordered". While the exact wording of the instruction is not known, sources believe that it will indicate that candidates for the priesthood who identify themselves as homosexual should be barred, even if they are sexually abstinent, because their condition could detract from their ministry. Many Vatican officials are determined to suppress what they see as a growing gay sub-culture in the priesthood. Liberals fear, however, that a crackdown will drive the issue underground and set the Church back by decades. The publication of the document will coincide with an evaluation that starts this month by Church investigators into America's 229 seminaries. The investigators will, among other things, be looking for "evidence of homosexuality" and whether seminarians are being properly prepared for celibacy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/23/wgay23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/09/23/ixportal.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #2 September 23, 2005 QuoteI agree with this. I feel Gay Priests have no business in the church, just my opinion and i could careless if you are gay or not, i just do not want some gay priest teaching my kids the rights and wrongs of life. They are suppost to practice celibacy right? Most priests practice celibacy, doesn't matter if they are gay or not. Are you saying that because they are gay they have a harder time being celibate?May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #3 September 23, 2005 I do not know many people who are gay that have not had sex do you? How do you know you are gay if you have not had sex? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #4 September 23, 2005 Catholics are the only religeon that request (but don't always get) celebacy from their preists, right? Where does this come from? You say Quotei just do not want some ... priest teaching my kids the rights and wrongs of life. Do you think that someone who has never had an intimate relationship should be out there advising others how to run their lives? What are your views on Whuffo 1st jump instructors teaching and debriefing student skydivers? Surely some involvement in the world at large is a requirement for guiding people through that world? I don't get it. Maybe you can explain it to me. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 September 23, 2005 QuoteHow do you know you are gay if you have not had sex? How do you know you're heterosexual if you have not had sex? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #6 September 23, 2005 Bottome line i do not want a gay person teching my kids about religion it is immoral or inconsistent with a positive Christian life style. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #7 September 23, 2005 Ah. Well, that's simple, isn't it?tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #8 September 23, 2005 I'm not even remotely close to being a Catholic, but I sure agree with the Pope on that one. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #9 September 23, 2005 The idea of celibacy comes from theApostle Paul in the scriptures. He said it would be a great idea if a man (priest) served God, without having to "serve" a wife at the same time,but he did not suggest that it should be mandatory. That is the result of an earlier Pope...and wrong. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #10 September 23, 2005 WTF?? since Catholic priests are celibate anyway, they're not supposed to be fooling around with anyone of either gender. so I don't understand why this is an issue. Whether the priest is gay or straight, he's not going to be a PRACTICING hetero- or homo-sexual. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #11 September 23, 2005 A Brief History of Celibacy in the Catholic Church http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/history.htm -- Fourteenth Century Bishop Pelagio complains that women are still ordained and hearing confessions. Fifteenth Century Transition; 50% of priests are married and accepted by the people. Sixteenth Century 1545-63-Council of Trent states that celibacy and virginity are superior to marriage."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #12 September 23, 2005 How anyone can take moral guidance from a B-movie horror movie look-alikie ex-nazi is beyond me. It really is about time that the gay community stopped taking notice of these homophobic bigotted old fucks, got off their backsides and set up a proper gay church of their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #13 September 23, 2005 Quote WTF?? since Catholic priests are celibate anyway, they're not supposed to be fooling around with anyone of either gender. so I don't understand why this is an issue. Whether the priest is gay or straight, he's not going to be a PRACTICING hetero- or homo-sexual. This is not how the Catholic church sees it. A sin is a sin even if there is no physical action involved. To put it bluntly, being a homosexual is sinful and immoral (to Catholics), regardless of whether one actually has intercourse with other men or is celibate for the rest of his natural life. To draw a parallel, it is considered sinful just to lust after another man's woman, it is immaterial whether one does actually commit adultery with her or merely has a few wet dreams featuring the same woman. BTW I'm not saying I agree with it, I was raised a Catholic but am not one anymore. cheers Valentino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #14 September 23, 2005 QuoteWTF?? since Catholic priests are celibate anyway, they're not supposed to be fooling around with anyone of either gender. so I don't understand why this is an issue. Whether the priest is gay or straight, he's not going to be a PRACTICING hetero- or homo-sexual. Yup, that's the point I was trying to get out. I don't think there is a "rule" that says you can't have sex before you commit yourself to the church. I should know, I dated a guy at one time that is now a priest.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #15 September 23, 2005 QuoteI do not know many people who are gay that have not had sex do you? How do you know you are gay if you have not had sex? If you've never had sex, how do you know you're NOT gay?illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #16 September 23, 2005 The Catholic Church is FUBARed in my eyes. They bar gays but a pedophile priest just gets transferred to another church. . There was a story on CNN a few days ago where a few priests in Mexico said it was OK for the church to accept money from drug trafficers and drug lords. The reasoning behind this was that it is not the church's responsibility to see where the money came from and since the church was going to put that money to good use it was ok to accept it. Talk about a church that is fucked up. Back on topic. This is just another issue used by a religious group to pick on a minority they deem to be immoral. Sometimes I wonder if the world would be a better place w/o Catholics, Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #17 September 23, 2005 > i just do not want some gay priest teaching my kids the rights and wrongs of life. Right. Much better to have a celibate man giving relationship advice to engaged couples. Personally, I'd rather have Keith teach my kids than Michael Jackson - or any of the heterosexual priests who sexually assaulted children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #18 September 23, 2005 There have always been, and will always be gay priests. Ultimately the Church will not be able to keep every gay out or the seminary and they're NOT going to start defrocking priests who are already ordained. The Church has got a real problem, especially in the US, where the priesthood and the seminaries have become a ready made institution for sexual predators. And the record so far is that most of the priest predators are going after a lot more boys than girls. A genuine discussion about sexual orientation is one thing, but the Church is under no obligation to become a Club Med for predators. Plus, whether or not we agree - and I'm personally speaking as an ex-Catholic because I have so many disagreements - the Catholic Church, or any church for that matter is free to teach and ENFORCE its own dogma within the confines of the church and its institutions. Fact is, the Catholic priesthood has been rumored to be a huge "gay club" for time out of memory. Recent events are sadly proving that much of the rumor is true. So the Church is supposed to just let the situation go on like this ?? Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #19 September 23, 2005 God created man, and made woman to be man's wife, and to deny priests the God given right to marry and raise a family is wrong. The Apostle Paul wrote: In the latter times, some shall depart from the (true) faith, giving heed to doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in Hypocrisy, Forbidding (Priests ) to marry, and commanding to abstain from eating meat ( on Fridays) which God had created to be received with thanksgiving. ( 1st Timothy 4:1-2-3) Forbidding priests to marry and raise a family like other men is robbing them of an inherent right, and (very wrongly) forces them to take out their lust on children. The Catholic Church is responsible for thie terrible injustice and compunds the travesty by calling for mandatory celebacy. It is only one of many false doctrines...another being the worship of plaster statues which have absolutely no power before God. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #20 September 23, 2005 >How do you know you are gay if you have not had sex? Did you know you were hetero before you had sex for the first time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #21 September 23, 2005 Whadda ya know, I agree with chuteless on this oneillegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #22 September 23, 2005 oh crap here we go again. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #23 September 23, 2005 QuoteWhadda ya know, I agree with chuteless on this one Me too. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #24 September 23, 2005 QuoteThis is not how the Catholic church sees it. A sin is a sin even if there is no physical action involved. To put it bluntly, being a homosexual is sinful and immoral (to Catholics), regardless of whether one actually has intercourse with other men or is celibate for the rest of his natural life. To draw a parallel, it is considered sinful just to lust after another man's woman, it is immaterial whether one does actually commit adultery with her or merely has a few wet dreams featuring the same woman. BTW I'm not saying I agree with it, I was raised a Catholic but am not one anymore. From americancatholic.org: ---------------------- While having a homosexual (or even a bisexual) orientation is not typical, it is not in itself morally wrong or sinful. Since in most cases it is discerned or discovered, not freely chosen, it is not automatically blameworthy (Human Sexuality, #55; Catechism, #2358).Thus the Church has taken a fairly benign or accepting stance toward homosexual persons—who discover their desires and inclinations (i.e., orientation) toward same-sex sexual activity. Yet the Church has consistently taught that to act on these inclinations, particularly to engage in homosexual genital acts, is always objectively morally wrong. Why so? Here the Church attempts to be true to the core premises of our Catholic sexual-ethics tradition, while at the same time fostering basic human respect, justice and pastoral care toward gay and lesbian persons. Accept the orientation, not the actions ----------------------- Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #25 September 23, 2005 QuoteForbidding priests to marry and raise a family like other men is robbing them of an inherent right, and (very wrongly) forces them to take out their lust on children. horseshit. I'm not saying I agree with forbidding priests to marry. But I am saying that that policy does NOT "force them to take out their lust on children." School teachers are not forbidden from marrying. Yet there have been FAR more cases of school teachers molesting children than priests. Somehow when a priest does it it attracts way more attention thouhg. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
