The Pope to exclude gay priests

[chuteless 1]

I am saying emphatically, taking their lust out on children is WRONG....but it appears they find the children a source to vent their lust on.

Its totally wrong...but I cannot see any other reason for their disgusting behaviour. I dont see it happening in Baptist churches , or other churches. Perhaps once in awhile, but not as often as the Catholic Church that forbids marrying.

Even IF they were allowed to marry, it likely wouldnt end the abuse of children....but I would wager it would most certainly reduce it if they had a wife to play with.

Bill Cole

[SpeedRacer 1]

I don't think that's how it works. Child molesting is NOT a natural result of sexual repression. If you're not inclined to be a child molester, no vow of celibacy will change that at all.

And the problem is in ALL churches, not just Catholics:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html

Speed Racer
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[chuteless 1]

I dont disagree that it may be in all churches, but there is not churchthat matches the Catholics for this type of thing.

Name one other church ever sued for it.

Bill Cole

[SpeedRacer 1]

Did you read the link???

Speed Racer
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[Shotgun 1]

Oh well... Homosexuals or women, or anyone else who the Catholic Church discriminates against, are free to disassociate themselves from the Church if they don't like being considered inferior. Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

[JoeyRamone 0]

Well i wanted to have a girl kiss me not a boy.

[Shotgun 1]

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Well i wanted to have a girl kiss me not a boy.

So you didn't need to have sex to find out if you were gay or not. I'm pretty sure it would be the same for a homosexual person.

[Darius11 12]

That makes since to me.

I have nothing against Homosexual union, and nothing against anyone who is gay couldn’t care less who people want to have sex with.

But being Christian according to the Bible you can’t be gay.
It is as simple as that.

How could someone who wants to be a priest not follow the religion they want to teach?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,997]

>Well i wanted to have a girl kiss me not a boy.

Well, now see? If you had wanted a boy to kiss you, you would have known.

[Muenkel 0]

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A sin is a sin even if there is no physical action involved. To put it bluntly, being a homosexual is sinful and immoral (to Catholics), regardless of whether one actually has intercourse with other men or is celibate for the rest of his natural life.

This statement is false. The Catholic Church teaches that if an individual has a homosexual orientation, it is just that. It is not sinful. Sin enters when the individual acts on the orientation. Sex outside of marriage is considered sinful. This law applies to all, not just homosexuals.

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Chris

[JoeyRamone 0]

Agreeded...

[Muenkel 0]

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It is only one of many false doctrines...another being the worship of plaster statues which have absolutely no power before God.

For the hundredth time...We_do_NOT_worship_statues!!!!

Folks, why don't you truly educate yourselves before making blatant ignorant opinions and statements.

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Chris

[sinker 0]

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It is only one of many false doctrines...another being the worship of plaster statues which have absolutely no power before God.

For the hundredth time...We_do_NOT_worship_statues!!!!

Folks, why don't you truly educate yourselves before making blatant ignorant opinions and statements.

defend, bro, defend!!

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

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Catholics are the only religeon that request (but don't always get) celebacy from their preists, right?

Where does this come from?

You say

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i just do not want some ... priest teaching my kids the rights and wrongs of life.

Do you think that someone who has never had an intimate relationship should be out there advising others how to run their lives?

What are your views on Whuffo 1st jump instructors teaching and debriefing student skydivers? Surely some involvement in the world at large is a requirement for guiding people through that world?

I don't get it.

Maybe you can explain it to me.

t

how do you know a priest has never had an intimate relationship? there are priests who were married and were widowed... would they count as being able to give valid advice? there are also priests who were clergy in other faiths, converted to catholicism and were given special permission to remain clergy and be ordained... so married priests, while being the exception, are not unknown today.

another point, does a doctor need to have had an illness or does a counselor need to have had a condition in order to give his patients good counsel? i think not.

JPII was one of the best pastoral counselors the catholic church as ever known. i believe this from having met him, from having read most of his writings as well as the biographies that others have written about him. i think he was a virgin. yet, his writings on sexuality are some of the most deep and erudite yet known to man. he counseled thousands of married couples pastorally and was highly successful. yet here he was, a celebate priest... but not just a priest, but someone wh ohad divine assistance, as all priests do, in helping their people.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

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How anyone can take moral guidance from a B-movie horror movie look-alikie ex-nazi is beyond me.

It really is about time that the gay community stopped taking notice of these homophobic bigotted old fucks, got off their backsides and set up a proper gay church of their own.

Gee, tell us how you really feel. What a hateful post.

It is in fact quite easy to take moral guidance from Pope Benedict first, b/c I don't judge him based on his mere appearance (B-grade horror movie look alike? is that be best you can come up with? is this how you size up everyone you take advice from?).... second, he's an ex-nazi b/c he fled the regime after FORCED membership... it was compulsory and his fleeing from them could have resulted in his dealth... that's quite heroic... I'll gladly listen to someone of THAT moral fiber and strength, thank you very much.

And homophobia is really is a misnomer... there is not a fear of homosexuals... there is on the other hand a view that, like pedophilia and other nonheterosexual orientations that it is disordered. Also, it is viewed as NOT THE FAULT of the homosexual that they are the way they are, therefore, much compassion and support is to be given. The church is not so brazen as to say that homosexuality is caused genetically or familially and leaves that up to scientists and psychiatrists and the like. If one were to really read the church's view on these matters, one would see that there is great compassion for homosexuals in the church, even if her followers sometimes --oft times-- are guilty of hatred and bigotry. Excluding gays from the priesthood is not homophobia or bigotry and it is myopia to see it only in that way.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

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I agree with this. I feel Gay Priests have no business in the church, just my opinion and i could careless if you are gay or not, i just do not want some gay priest teaching my kids the rights and wrongs of life. They are suppost to practice celibacy right?

Most priests practice celibacy, doesn't matter if they are gay or not. Are you saying that because they are gay they have a harder time being celibate?

I personally know a couple of priests who have homosexual orientations. They are celebate but they have had difficult times with that. It could be that the more brazen promescuity promoted in some parts of the gay community could make it more difficult for gay priests to be celebate. Also, sexual addiction can certainly play a big part in it as well. But for that matter, such an addiction is quite prelevant in hetero's too....

I think it should be said, and emphatically so, that most priests ARE celibate, most live a very virtuous life. While this isn't to take away that there are serious probs in w/i the catholic clergy, I think sometimes it is lost in the mainstream that most priests are good men who fulfill their vocations honorably.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 2,997]

> It could be that the more brazen promescuity promoted in some
>parts of the gay community could make it more difficult for gay
> priests to be celebate.

There is far more heterosexual promiscuity on display than homosexual promiscuity. Turn on any TV show; open any magazine. In all cases, it is the individual's decision to remain celibate or not.

>I think sometimes it is lost in the mainstream that most priests
>are good men who fulfill their vocations honorably.

I agree. I think it is sad that the pope is making the decision to eject some of those good men from the priesthood.

[sinker 0]

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> It could be that the more brazen promescuity promoted in some
>parts of the gay community could make it more difficult for gay
> priests to be celebate.

There is far more heterosexual promiscuity on display than homosexual promiscuity. Turn on any TV show; open any magazine. In all cases, it is the individual's decision to remain celibate or not.

>I think sometimes it is lost in the mainstream that most priests
>are good men who fulfill their vocations honorably.

I agree. I think it is sad that the pope is making the decision to eject some of those good men from the priesthood.

you are right about both points I think but I want to add something... while there is more mainstream media promoting hetero promiscuity, I was referring more to the fact that the homosexual community seems to be more promiscuous than the hetero one.

as to the decision to eject gay priests, I have to ask some theologian friends of mine about this... I hope that the vatican isn't just blindly sweeping out all gay priests... the church teaches that perhaps orientation in many cases cannot be changed, but that it is possible for those afflicted to live chaste christian lives, even in ministry. I would hate to see my friends who are priests w/ homosexual orientations (but who are faithful to church teachings) excluded from ministry.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 2,997]

>I was referring more to the fact that the homosexual community
>seems to be more promiscuous than the hetero one.

I haven't seen that. Not that the gay community is not at times quite promiscuous, it's just that they can't hold a candle to the hetero community. Check out New Orleans during Mardi Gras. (Well, you could have checked it out a year ago; you know what I mean.) Go to any Vegas show. Or just walk down the street and see how many people try to hand you cards for hookers. Heck, Vegas has a mainstream Cirque du Soleil show about heterosexual sex.

[sinker 0]

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>I was referring more to the fact that the homosexual community
>seems to be more promiscuous than the hetero one.

I haven't seen that. Not that the gay community is not at times quite promiscuous, it's just that they can't hold a candle to the hetero community. Check out New Orleans during Mardi Gras. (Well, you could have checked it out a year ago; you know what I mean.) Go to any Vegas show. Or just walk down the street and see how many people try to hand you cards for hookers. Heck, Vegas has a mainstream Cirque du Soleil show about heterosexual sex.

anyone out there know valid figures of the #s of sexual partners the average gay man has vs. the average heterosexual man?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[airdweller 0]

Bottome line i do not want a gay person teching my kids about religion it is immoral or inconsistent with a positive Christian life style.

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What a stupid comment, but then your spelling gives it away.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[sinker 0]

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Bottome line i do not want a gay person teching my kids about religion it is immoral or inconsistent with a positive Christian life style.

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What a stupid comment, but then your spelling gives it away.

that's it, attack the person... very nice. good job. why not address his statement? is homosexuality consistant with all christian churches? no, definately not the catholic church... there should be NO one inside the catholic church teaching something contrary to it's doctrines... if you don't believe in what it teaches, go to a church that espouses your beliefs. or start your own.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[DrewGPM 0]

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anyone out there know valid figures of the #s of sexual partners the average gay man has vs. the average heterosexual man?

I don't think promiscuity is the reason the Pope prefers to exclude gays from the priesthood. That seems like a tangent from this thread.

As far this thread goes...I look at the Pope the same way i look at the supreme court in the US. The bible is open to interpretation, just like our constitution. You need someone there to be the highest authority on the issue. That's what the pope is in the Catholic church. Under the current Pope, the interpretation is that the bible clearly stands against homosexuals as priests. That is the more traditional stance of the church.

When a new Pope comes in, i'd expect any hotly debated topic to come up again. The same thing happens when the US Supreme Court changes members. Gays and Abortion are going to being debated for quite a while by the pope and the Supreme Court of the United States.

Personally I have no problem with homesexuality. I don't think allowing them to be priests is a big deal. But the Pope says no. Gotta go with him, until someone convinces him that he is wrong.

[Muenkel 0]

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It is only one of many false doctrines...another being the worship of plaster statues which have absolutely no power before God.

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For the hundredth time...We_do_NOT_worship_statues!!!!

Folks, why don't you truly educate yourselves before making blatant ignorant opinions and statements.

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defend, bro, defend!!

I try buddy, but I strongly believe that these folks are not interested in the truth of our faith. They are more interested in spinning what they think is true so they can use it to piss on our faith. The disrespect is just an obvious demonstration of their character. They are not open minded. If they were, they would truly seek out the truth before passing judgement.

You won't see me make erroneous posts about other faiths.

This is all ignorance and arrogance in its purest form.

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Chris

[sinker 0]

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anyone out there know valid figures of the #s of sexual partners the average gay man has vs. the average heterosexual man?

I don't think promiscuity is the reason the Pope prefers to exclude gays from the priesthood. That seems like a tangent from this thread.

As far this thread goes...I look at the Pope the same way i look at the supreme court in the US. The bible is open to interpretation, just like our constitution. You need someone there to be the highest authority on the issue. That's what the pope is in the Catholic church. Under the current Pope, the interpretation is that the bible clearly stands against homosexuals as priests. That is the more traditional stance of the church.

When a new Pope comes in, i'd expect any hotly debated topic to come up again. The same thing happens when the US Supreme Court changes members. Gays and Abortion are going to being debated for quite a while by the pope and the Supreme Court of the United States.

Personally I have no problem with homesexuality. I don't think allowing them to be priests is a big deal. But the Pope says no. Gotta go with him, until someone convinces him that he is wrong.

yes that is tangent, slightly, but still tangent. however, more to your point, the doctrines of the catholic church are not "debatable" as laws are in this country. whereas roe v wade may someday be overturned, "laws" or doctrine in the c church is not. sure, there has been an evolution of sorts, a maturation, but never a contradiction... homosexuality will never be ok in the church, either by the clergy or the laity.

-the artist formerly known as sinker