i'm NOT christian... and proud of it!!!

[pajarito 0]

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But the question falls apart because existence of hell is a matter of faith (it can not be known as a fact). That makes it a hypothetical question, which makes it an interesting thought experiment - but nothing more unless the existence of hell can be proven or falsified.

From the Atheist's perspective, our existence apart from God is also a matter of faith. They’ve got no proof of the beginnings of things, only unsubstantiated theory. No matter how many examples Billvon might provide, there is still no accepted “missing link.” There is no first cause. There is no idea of what came before.

My life experience is my biggest proof. I've moved from the realm of faith into the realm of experience. I can see now that God has always been active in my life. I also see the amazing complexity and design of everything around me. For a painting to exist there had to be a painter. For a building to exist there had to be a builder. I also see the fulfilled prophesy in the Bible which screams of His existence. The fulfillment of even a portion of prophesy attributed to Jesus is astronomical.

[hairyjuan 0]

Go read it from front cover to back cover, you,ll see everything i say is true. It is in exodus, another solar myth. While we,re at it you just might want to read Thomas Jefferson's 'Prophecy'. while you thump the bible, his prophecy has come true. yours is totally absurd.

www.truthbeknown.com

jefferson's prophecy WILL be posted a little later.

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[pajarito 0]

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Go read it from front cover to back cover, you,ll see everything i say is true. It is in exodus, another solar myth. While we,re at it you just might want to read Thomas Jefferson's 'Prophecy'. while you thump the bible, his prophecy has come true. yours is totally absurd.

www.truthbeknown.com

jefferson's prophecy WILL be posted a little later.

Simply absurd and asinine.

[pirana 0]

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Well this is bringing up another epistemological question:

Does hairyjuan exist?

Now this is funny. Is belief in hairyjuan a matter of faith? Or more correctly, is the belief that hairyjuan is human or not a matter of faith?

Interesting that the comments about possibly being a bot have never been responded to (that I have seen anyway).

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rehmwa 2]

I went to your website, but it is so completely slow that I left before the quiz. I can't stand it when webdesigners think it's necessary to control the pace at which we read a page. Especially when the content is 3 lines of 4 words each.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pirana 0]

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you cannot find the answers to the Great Questions by looking outside yourself. the answers are within you. that.s why religion, of any brand is WRONG!

Can't respond to this without knowing what you think the Great Questions are.

Problem is, though many are probably the same, or similar, for many people, there will be differences. Some might not give a rat's patooti about the origins of Life, the Universe & Everything. Others might obsess over the average weight of an English Sparrow.

It's one of the things that make life, and the people in it, so interesting.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rehmwa 2]

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Others might obsess over the average weight of an English Sparrow.

AND, how far it can carry a coconut.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pajarito 0]

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I went to your website, but it is so completely slow that I left before the quiz. I can't stand it when webdesigners think it's necessary to control the pace at which we read a page. Especially when the content is 3 lines of 4 words each.

Sorry. I've included a slow speed version.

[JackC 0]

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I certainly do not have the market cornered on goodness. I failed my test below miserably. I don't want your money and I'm not trying to recruit for some denomination. I'm just genuinely concerned about the fate of others.

Assume a bridge is out up ahead on the road you're traveling on. There is a car up ahead with a person standing on the side of the road waving his hands at you trying to get you to stop. Is that person in the wrong for doing so? Assume that hell really does exist. I know you don't believe that but just assume for a minute. If another person knew that it did exist, wouldn't you want to be warned? Just trying to get you to understand the motive.

To me that's like saying "I'm only trying to tell you that square circles exist". Erm... no. By definition, the square circle is an oxymoron. Just like square circles, god and satan and heaven and hell are are all equally absurd. The more frantically you wave your hands trying to get me to slow down, the less likely I am to stop. Your motives may be good, but I've heard the message before and it's gibberish.

So why do atheists bark equally loudly? For me, it's the fact that what the religious are saying makes no sense. If I hear something that is obviously bullshit, I can't help myself not to call it as I see it. Plus, it's occasionally amusing to poke a few religious types to see what bizzare and outrageous stuff falls out. It's quite addictive in a slighly masochistic way.

[Rebecca 0]

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Why does it seem that the loudest & angriest ranters & ravers seem to be on the atheist side?

I have a theory: Fear.

I use the term "Christian" in the following to mean those good folks, doing what they can to treat themselves and others with love and respect, no matter if they call themselves Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, whatever. Christ acted like that too.

Can't speak for all, but my concern is the damage done by fundamentalist literal interpretation of stories created thousands of years ago. My opinion is that those stories were never intended for literal interpretation, but more as moral lessons. If they were intended to be factual accounts, then their fault lies in being based on what passed for knowledge at that time.

I have no qualms about belief in a diety. I don't, but I can understand the desire of others to do so. But to ask me to suspend all logic, the laws of physics, and 2000 years of actual discovery and buy into fairy tales like the Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, Creation, etc is just an outright Dark Ages mentality.

It's 2006; we should be able to practice religion and enjoy spirituality while letting go of the incredibly far-fetched dogmatic stuff.

That's a very strrange definitioin of Christian. Basically you are saying that all people that are good are Christian, without regard for their actual chosen religion, or choice not to be religious. That's a gonzo-whopper of a contradiction.

I would probably meet most people's definition of a good person. I do not lie, cheat, or steal; don't hurt people, and go out of my way to help others and be a valuable and contributing member of my community. But I can guarantee you I'm not Christian in any way shape or form. But by your definition I must be Christian because I am a good person.

It's not actually a contradiction. I'm just not using the popularly accepted definition of Christian.

I don't identify myself as Christian or draw any lines that way, i.e. "Are YOU Christian? I am, and here's why you should be, too." That's not my style.

I do however recognize that when we love ourselves and as a consequence, love others and seek to make this a better world, we are getting closer to what Christ was trying to tell us. He wasn't the first, or the last to preach this simple message, and it's just as valid now as it was then.

"I do not lie, cheat, or steal; don't hurt people, and go out of my way to help others and be a valuable and contributing member of my community."

You can say you're not a Christian all you want, but when you value your community/society/world and your place in it, you start acting a whole lot like one.

Trust me dude, I'm right there with you on the Bible and the pointless ongoing attempts at interpreting it literally. I think Religion has become dangerous in the hands of us imperfect men.


Doesn't mean Jesus didn't have a good point.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[pajarito 0]

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"I do not lie, cheat, or steal; don't hurt people, and go out of my way to help others and be a valuable and contributing member of my community."

You may strive to not lie, cheat, steal, or hurt people but have you ever in the past? Will you not ever again? If so, you stand guilty of breaking God's moral law and will be judged accordingly? There is no statute of limitations in this matter. You will be judged for "every" thought and deed during your lifetime. It makes sense even in our concept of justice. If someone murdered another, would it matter how long ago it happened with reference to guilt and punishment?

Added: I may have intended this reply to pirana and not you. I think he said what I quoted above.

[Rebecca 0]

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"I do not lie, cheat, or steal; don't hurt people, and go out of my way to help others and be a valuable and contributing member of my community."

You may strive to not lie, cheat, steal, or hurt people but have you ever in the past? Will you not ever again? If so, you stand guilty of breaking God's moral law and will be judged accordingly? There is no statute of limitations in this matter. You will be judged for "every" thought and deed during your lifetime. It makes sense even in our concept of justice. If someone murdered another, would it matter how long ago it happened with reference to guilt and punishment?

Are you talking to me, or responding to the original poster that quote came from?

"God's Law" does not come from outside of us. It is not something you can be told and then blindly accept because someone read it and believed it. "Man's Law" is not the same thing, because you better believe it or suffer the consequences.

Whatever your personal concept of God is, it has to come from and reside IN you as a confirmation of your intrinsic worth and value because of His residence within you. (Did that just make sense?)

We all screw up. We all think bad thoughts. We all hurt ourselves and each other. We always will.

But I will not strive to be better for fear of judgement by some outside force. I will strive to better because that is why I'm here and to do so is to validate God's presence in me.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[pajarito 0]

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Whatever your personal concept of God is, it has to come from and reside IN you as a confirmation of your intrinsic worth and value because of His residence within you. (Did that just make sense?)

We all screw up. We all think bad thoughts. We all hurt ourselves and each other. We always will.

But I will not strive to be better for fear of judgement by some outside force. I will strive to better because that is why I'm here and to do so is to validate God's presence in me.

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The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Proverbs 1:7

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But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
Romans 2:5-8

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And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:1-10

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As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
Romans 3:10-12

[rehmwa 2]

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Doesn't mean Jesus didn't have a good point.

Look, if I go around and talk about how great it would be if we all just were nice to each other....
And then got nailed to a tree for doing that....
I'd probably keep my mouth shut

Religions based on good will have a decent goal, but people that nail others to trees for saying stuff eventually take over the formal organization at some point for the power. So I'd just as soon we didn't have all these organizations that can abuse it.

(Douglas Adams put for that point0

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[windcatcher 0]

It is my belief that a "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Many people CLAIM to be Christian, because they simply believe in God or doing good to others. Being a Christian to me means following after Christ, worshipping God in every area of my life, "picking up MY cross," suffering/being persecuted for being a Christian, and doing everything I can to follow God's word.

A follower of Christ will not bat an eyelash at the thought of dying for one's faith. I would rather die than renounce Christ.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[billvon 2,991]

>No matter how many examples Billvon might provide, there is still no accepted “missing link.”

Are you sure that's what you meant? I agree that there's no accepted missing link, because we have a pretty complete view of human evolution from our most recent common ancestor with bonobos/chimps - and every new fossil we find in that line fits in somewhere along the same continuum.

[masterblaster72 0]

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It is my belief that a "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Many people CLAIM to be Christian, because they simply believe in God or doing good to others. Being a Christian to me means following after Christ, worshipping God in every area of my life, "picking up MY cross," suffering/being persecuted for being a Christian, and doing everything I can to follow God's word.

A follower of Christ will not bat an eyelash at the thought of dying for one's faith. I would rather die than renounce Christ.

Christ helped other people and lived selflessly. What action do you take in your life to help people and emulate Christ?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[pajarito 0]

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Are you sure that's what you meant? I agree that there's no accepted missing link, because we have a pretty complete view of human evolution from our most recent common ancestor with bonobos/chimps - and every new fossil we find in that line fits in somewhere along the same continuum.

Now that takes faith.

[unformed 0]

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It is my belief that a "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Many people CLAIM to be Christian, because they simply believe in God or doing good to others. Being a Christian to me means following after Christ, worshipping God in every area of my life, "picking up MY cross," suffering/being persecuted for being a Christian, and doing everything I can to follow God's word.

A follower of Christ will not bat an eyelash at the thought of dying for one's faith. I would rather die than renounce Christ.

Christ helped other people and lived selflessly. What action do you take in your life to help people and emulate Christ?

I tell people they're going to hell if they don't believe. If they know what's good for them, they'll shape up and start believing. There's not much more to do.

This ad space for sale.

[jakee 1,490]

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Being a Christian to me means following after Christ, worshipping God in every area of my life, "picking up MY cross," suffering/being persecuted for being a Christian, and doing everything I can to follow God's word.

Yep, all that persecution in one of the most strongly christian countries on the planet - it must be so hard for you being in the powerful majority like that.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[masterblaster72 0]

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It is my belief that a "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Many people CLAIM to be Christian, because they simply believe in God or doing good to others. Being a Christian to me means following after Christ, worshipping God in every area of my life, "picking up MY cross," suffering/being persecuted for being a Christian, and doing everything I can to follow God's word.

A follower of Christ will not bat an eyelash at the thought of dying for one's faith. I would rather die than renounce Christ.

Christ helped other people and lived selflessly. What action do you take in your life to help people and emulate Christ?

I tell people they're going to hell if they don't believe. If they know what's good for them, they'll shape up and start believing. There's not much more to do.

You sound like a true believer to me!

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Royd 0]

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But the question falls apart because existence of hell is a matter of faith (it can not be known as a fact). That makes it a hypothetical question, which makes it an interesting thought experiment - but nothing more unless the existence of hell can be proven or falsified.

One can deny the reality of Heaven or Hell simply because noone that we know personally[ Although, there is an account in the New Testament] who has been there and back.

What one cannot deny is the presence of good and evil.
This could be broken down even further:

Generosity vs. selfishness
Kindness vs. meanness
Courage vs. cowardice

I'm sure there are many others.

I doubt if science can firmly put its finger on such characteristics, yet they do exist, and envirornment cannot always account for such behavior.

[billvon 2,991]

>What one cannot deny is the presence of good and evil.
>This could be broken down even further:

>Generosity vs. selfishness
>Kindness vs. meanness
>Courage vs. cowardice

Right, but those are all creations of man. The natural world has no hard-and-fast examples of good or evil.

[Rebecca 0]

Could you please just come right out and tell me what you think instead of quoting scripture? I know what the scripture says. I want to know your interpretation.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Rebecca 0]

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Doesn't mean Jesus didn't have a good point.

Look, if I go around and talk about how great it would be if we all just were nice to each other....
And then got nailed to a tree for doing that....
I'd probably keep my mouth shut

Religions based on good will have a decent goal, but people that nail others to trees for saying stuff eventually take over the formal organization at some point for the power. So I'd just as soon we didn't have all these organizations that can abuse it.

(Douglas Adams put for that point0

You're right. And that's my point. It's because the goal itself is worthy that we as human beings even survive. Because we know it's gotta be good for something.

Where does that spark come from? What makes us think we're worth any more than a dog on the street? How are we able to recognize good and evil when we see it, no matter what name it goes by?


I don't need a book or a religion or another soul to tell me what I know by examining my inner self: that God put me here, that He loves me enough to give me the gifts I have, and that He has a purpose for me. Same goes for all of you.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?