i'm NOT christian... and proud of it!!!

[jakee 1,558]

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Why does it seem that the loudest & angriest ranters & ravers seem to be on the atheist side?

Only since chuteless stopped posting

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

I'll give you that one!

Speed Racer
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[hairyjuan 0]

to open the world's eyes to the LIE that all religion is, is a very noble and honorable task! i love EVERYONE NOT MATTER WHO OR WHAT THEY ARE OR BELIEVE. Your 'god' can't and does not say this, does 'he'.




[url]www.truthbeknown.com

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[Rebecca 0]

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Why does it seem that the loudest & angriest ranters & ravers seem to be on the atheist side?

There just seems to be a lot more Atheists screeching that we MUST NOT believe in Christianity than there are Christians attempting to convince athiests to believe.

Maybe the atheists should start going door-to-door like the Jehovah's Witnesses if they feel so strongly about it.

I have a theory: Fear.


(And before I go on, I'm not a member of any religious group, unless you count sorta Catholic but not church-going, which I don't. For simplicity, I use the term "Christian" in the following to mean those good folks, doing what they can to treat themselves and others with love and respect, no matter if they call themselves Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, whatever. Christ acted like that too.)

Maybe they're afraid the Christians might be right. That just maybe after all that bible-thumping and preaching, they'll be better off in heaven and the rest of us'll be screwed.

Maybe they're afraid that if they bought into all of it, they'd still end up being wrong.

'Course fear of being rejected by the Christians because you're already too much of a sinner is a good one. Some professed Christians DO condemn them. They are not true Christians.

Then there's fear that even if you did believe and were accepted, you would still find yourself lacking.


So they'd just rather not be reminded of it, or they try to warn the rest of us of our folly. Loudly.


That's just my theory, but I don't know nothin'. I could be wrong.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[SpeedRacer 1]

Whether someone agrees with your views or not, you still come across as fanatical proselytizer.

Speed Racer
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[Rebecca 0]

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Whether someone agrees with your views or not, you still come across as fanatical proselytizer.

Thanks! I was trying to remember how to spell "proselytizer."


And yes Juan, you do your cause little good.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[jakee 1,558]

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Whether someone agrees with your views or not, you still come across as fanatical proselytizer.

And I'll give you that one

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[hairyjuan 0]

if you must fear god , there is no LOVE

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[SpeedRacer 1]

Hey, there's that link again!! How many times is that?

If you post it for the hundredth time, you get pied.

Speed Racer
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[hairyjuan 0]

not even close, as i said before, i LOVE everyone on this planet, no matter what they are or what they believe. your religion says believe or burn in hell.


no contradictions in the bible says pajarito. before i quote, know that the text on both sides of these alleged scriptures has been thoroughly read by me. they are not taken out of context!

remember the sabbathday keep it holy--exodus 20:8
one man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind--romans 14:5


ON THE PERMANANCY OF THE EARTH

THE earth abideth forever--Ecclesiastes1:4

...the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up--2peter 3:10


ON CIRCUMCISION

this is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; every manchild among you shall be circumsized--genisis 17:10

if ye be circumcised, christ shall profit you nothing--galations5:2

and the list goes on! divinely inspired? definitely not!

the last one says that all you circumcised christians do NOT GO TO HEAVEN

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[masterblaster72 0]

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have you read the book i sent you, windcatcher? i'm not trying to convince anyone. i'm the messenger, telling everyone the truth about the lie that all religions are, if you choose to remain ignorant of the mythological nature of your religion, that is your problem. the pope told you the truth when he said, "what profit hath that FABLE OF CHRIST brought us." do unto others as you would have done to you-Xtianity"s 'golden rule'. do what thou will, but harm no one-wicca's 'golden rule. i find it quite amusing that you call wiccans 'satanists and the basic idea behind both is IDENTICAL.


windcatcher, you said you would read the books i send you, does your word have no honor? send your address and i,ll send them. it is the myth of all myths. jesus crucifixion and resurection is a very COMMON theme in ALL ancient religions. i forget the 'scriptural' site that the bibleis truebecause it is the bible, but that very notion is ABSOLUTELY, TOTALLY ABSURD. why don't you look into it, failure to look proves mind-control, lovely lady.

Dude, do you really think she's going to read the books you send her? This is the same person telling us that satan goes around the world tempting people into doing bad things. She's going to equate your books with satan. She's not going to read them. Don't waste your postage.

What I would recommend to windcatcher is that she do some kind of volunteer work to show the world that she's about action and not just empty mantras like "my lord and saviour jesus..." Action is more convincing than words that mean absolutely nothing to others.

Okay, I have already sent hairyjuan my address, waiting for the material. Yes, I will read it, but I doubt it will change my mind.
Masterblaster, it is amazing to me how people become so angry at Christians. I wish you knew me, but you don't and insist that I don't live out my faith--I'm just all talk.

The message of the Cross DOES seem foolish; but when you have faith and accept Christ, God confirms His truth in many, many ways.

I think it's good that you're giving other points of view a read. Personally, I wouldn't recommend something that poses such an extreme counterpoint to your faith. What I would recommend is reading the Dhammapadda. You'd find many similarities.

I'm not angry toward Christians, but I do admit that I have a disdain for those who proselytize (I used to do so myself when I was a born-again Christian as a teenager). Not saying that you proselytize -- I just see that you're open about your faith and there's nothing wrong with that. I do think there's value in action and my main beef with most born-again types is that they simply talk about how they're saved while doing nothing to help others (as it is written that Jesus did), which to me amounts to a self-righteous superiority complex.

I'm curious to know how you live out your faith -- please realize I'm asking that genuinely and not as a challenge to what you believe.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Rebecca 0]

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if you must fear god , there is no LOVE

Is that supposed to be a response to my post?

Who said anything about fearing God?

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Mockingbird 0]

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How can you deny the TRUTH that is in God's word?

He can because he's been reading anti-Christian propaganda that's contains some half-truths and swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

I don't think he's read God's word; he would see himself in it and realize that something needs to change (his mind, that is)... and it won't be God.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[caspar 0]

you quote the bible but i wonder what you'd say if you quoted all the literature the vatican keeps hidden away from the mases. if those documents are holy then they've got to be right, right? but why keep god knows what information away from the masses?

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[Royd 0]

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ON CIRCUMCISION

this is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; every manchild among you shall be circumsized--genisis 17:10

if ye be circumcised, christ shall profit you nothing--galations5:2

and the list goes on! divinely inspired? definitely not!

the last one says that all you circumcised christians do NOT GO TO HEAVEN

That is not what it says at all.
Curcumcision was given to the Jews of the old testament to act as a sign that they were set apart by God from the rest of the world, which, btw is one reason most of the world hates the Jews.
The Jews also had a system of sacrifices that basically kept them in good standing with God. No other nation had these requirments.
Everything was designed to point to a final sacrifice for the whole world, which was Christ himself.
The Jews had come to believe that all of the processes were an end in themselves.
Christ was basically saying that obeying every aspect of the Law , thinking that, that is all that is required of a person to enter heaven, was still missing the mark.

It's no different than someone giving a million dollars to charity thinking that somehow that is going to carry any weight with God.

When the final judgment comes, all of those good works will count for naught, if God's defense attorney is not standing beside you pleading your case.

P.S. It really is that simple.

[pajarito 0]

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(I used to do so myself when I was a born-again Christian as a teenager).

If you're not a Christian now, you were never really a "born again" Christian then.

[pirana 0]

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Why does it seem that the loudest & angriest ranters & ravers seem to be on the atheist side?

I have a theory: Fear.

I use the term "Christian" in the following to mean those good folks, doing what they can to treat themselves and others with love and respect, no matter if they call themselves Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, whatever. Christ acted like that too.

Can't speak for all, but my concern is the damage done by fundamentalist literal interpretation of stories created thousands of years ago. My opinion is that those stories were never intended for literal interpretation, but more as moral lessons. If they were intended to be factual accounts, then their fault lies in being based on what passed for knowledge at that time.

I have no qualms about belief in a diety. I don't, but I can understand the desire of others to do so. But to ask me to suspend all logic, the laws of physics, and 2000 years of actual discovery and buy into fairy tales like the Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, Creation, etc is just an outright Dark Ages mentality.

It's 2006; we should be able to practice religion and enjoy spirituality while letting go of the incredibly far-fetched dogmatic stuff.

That's a very strrange definitioin of Christian. Basically you are saying that all people that are good are Christian, without regard for their actual chosen religion, or choice not to be religious. That's a gonzo-whopper of a contradiction.

I would probably meet most people's definition of a good person. I do not lie, cheat, or steal; don't hurt people, and go out of my way to help others and be a valuable and contributing member of my community. But I can guarantee you I'm not Christian in any way shape or form. But by your definition I must be Christian because I am a good person.

Why do religious people think they have the market on goodness cornered? That you can not be good if you do not buy into religious beliefs? BTW, this largely explains why atheists do not go door-to-door. We're not selling or looking to convert. We (at least peole like me) are perfectly OK with religion until it oversteps it's boundaries and proclaims ancient nuggets of information as absolute fact. This also lversam a very

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pajarito 0]

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There is no contextual understanding of anything he quoted. I know you know and I'm just stating for the record. One should never just read one verse and assume meaning. The verses before and after and really the entire chapter should be read for proper discernment of meaning. That really goes with anything read. It is imperitive that we try and understand what the writer intended to convey. Otherwise, we could make most any writer say just about anything we wanted them to mean. That's dangerous. Again, that's not directed at you.

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[pirana 0]

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If my Flying Spaghetti Monsterism started to have real, tangible effects on your every day life, you'd start not to take Flying Spaghetti Monsterism seriously, but to take the consquences of seriously.

Flying Spaghetti Monsterism!!!!!

You don't frequent BadAstronomy or other astronomy or physics chat rooms by chance do you?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pajarito 0]

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Why do religious people think they have the market on goodness cornered? That you can not be good if you do not buy into religious beliefs? BTW, this largely explains why atheists do not go door-to-door. We're not selling or looking to convert.

I certainly do not have the market cornered on goodness. I failed my test below miserably. I don't want your money and I'm not trying to recruit for some denomination. I'm just genuinely concerned about the fate of others.

Assume a bridge is out up ahead on the road you're traveling on. There is a car up ahead with a person standing on the side of the road waving his hands at you trying to get you to stop. Is that person in the wrong for doing so? Assume that hell really does exist. I know you don't believe that but just assume for a minute. If another person knew that it did exist, wouldn't you want to be warned? Just trying to get you to understand the motive.

[pajarito 0]

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Flying Spaghetti Monsterism!!!!!

I'm an A-spaghetti-monsterist.

[pirana 0]

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Faith negates proof as it eliminates the need for evidence.

Faith cannot work as evidence because it would provide proof.

If you have evidence, you can have proof, thus negate the need for faith.

God requires faith, thus you cannot have evidence and, subsequently, proof.

This is why there is no evidence or proof supporting god.

So any christians who think faith is just as good as evidence and proof is logically and biblically wrong.

This probably does not work for people who do not regularly practice scientific methodology. Accepting the validity of the method probably isn't even enough. Without a common definition of terms like proof and theory, and an understanding of logical constructs like falsification and bifurcation, deductive arguements can be twisted all over the place and become meaningless.

Not trying to be condecending; but some of these words get thrown around in here quite casually. It's at it's worst when people are pitting science against religion, or even better, when they try to draw some equivalency between the 2 by claiming science to be just another religion. That kind of claim (or the one that proclaims that something is just a theory) only reveals one thing - a person's profound lack of understanding of the scientific method.

If anyone is sincerely interested in the topic, there is a very good read, and entertaining too, titled "It's Just a Theory." I know it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I bet there are many people in this thread who would enjoy it.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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Why do religious people think they have the market on goodness cornered? That you can not be good if you do not buy into religious beliefs? BTW, this largely explains why atheists do not go door-to-door. We're not selling or looking to convert.

I certainly do not have the market cornered on goodness. I failed my test below miserably. I don't want your money and I'm not trying to recruit for some denomination. I'm just genuinely concerned about the fate of others.

Assume a bridge is out up ahead on the road you're traveling on. There is a car up ahead with a person standing on the side of the road waving his hands at you trying to get you to stop. Is that person in the wrong for doing so? Assume that hell really does exist. I know you don't believe that but just assume for a minute. If another person knew that it did exist, wouldn't you want to be warned? Just trying to get you to understand the motive.

But the question falls apart because existence of hell is a matter of faith (it can not be known as a fact). That makes it a hypothetical question, which makes it an interesting thought experiment - but nothing more unless the existence of hell can be proven or falsified.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[hairyjuan 0]

the bible says it, jealous god is a fearful god


www.jordanmaxwell.com

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[pajarito 0]

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the bible says it, jealous god is a fearful god

Where does it say that?

Added: You see... Not only is the above completely wrong in the way that it is supposedly quoted, neither attributes are in their proper context. You are picking words out of the Bible to form your own sentences of what you want it to mean. Yes, God is a jealous God wanting all to come to repentance and follow him. Yes, you should fear the righteous judement of God. He is what you should fear most if you are not a child of God. No, God fears nothing or no one.