shaiziel 0 #276 June 29, 2006 Quote Didn't the people of Egypt follow their religion for around 3000 years, with a lot less change than christianity has gone through? I'm sure they felt inside themselves that what they believed was truth. In fact, their stories are so powerful that we read them now, 5000 years later. Just because a tradition is passed down for a very long time does not make it any more or less true. And I'll mention it again, didn't the people of Egypt have a story of a major figure (Horus) that the story of Jesus is 95% carbon copied from? I guess satan made it that way to help discredit Jesus. You christian's don't miss a beat.---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaiziel 0 #277 June 29, 2006 QuoteOk Mockingbird lets do this again. According to your definition "Faith= the assurance of the heart in the adequacy of the evidence " When I read this I see that it is your HEART that is assuring you that the evidence you see is adequate. Hmmmm now lets look at what else you have written. QuoteYes, you are right, the heart CAN be deceiving and often is. And yes, you remember it correctly being written somewhere in my precious bible (tho' I picked up on your sarcastic tone!). The entire sentence is: "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick; who can understand it?" I'll add to that. The heart (emotion/feeling) is deceitful so you can't trust your heart. Your mind (thought/reasoning) is limited in it's capacity to understand things of god, so that's shot. And you have a sinful nature which puts your will (action/desire) against the will of god, so you're fucked there too. These 3 things comprise the soul. There is no evidence of any "spirit" and Royd already clarified that humans are pretty much incapable of experiencing things of the spirit so that's worthless. Tell me, again, what christian's have to offer as a foundation of their belief? Outside of self-defeating rhetoric like that offered up by paj (no offense to paj).---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #278 June 29, 2006 QuoteTell me, again, what christian's have to offer as a foundation of their belief? Outside of self-defeating rhetoric like that offered up by paj (no offense to paj). You know, I never get worked up over belief systems I don't believe in, ie, Islam, Hinduism, etc. I see so many agnostic/atheist in SC that get their panties all in a wad over Christianity. Perhaps they personally have been offended by judgmental Christians, or what they interpret as governmental intervention into religion. Whatever, the case I find it insightful that they care that much about something they don't believe in. My faith in Christ is personal, and effects me tremendoulsy. While I have a MS in Theology I don't spend my days trying to convince myself, let alone other people, that what I believe is 100% true. To be honest, what I believe today is not excatly what I believed 10-20 years ago. The essence is still the same, but I'm quick to realize I don't have all the answers. My faith (or death denial as some psychologists have called it) has sustained me in times of great turmoil. I wish all people had the experience I have had with Christ. I wish fewer have had the experiences I have had with some of his so called followers. /speech ... peace! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #279 June 29, 2006 It's pretty simple Steveorino. If my Flying Spaghetti Monsterism started to have real, tangible effects on your every day life, you'd start not to take Flying Spaghetti Monsterism seriously, but to take the consquences of seriously. I find it interesting to talk with believers of various faiths. I do not however offer their faith based belief any more slack than I would, say, a colleagues suggestion on the architecture of a piece of software. Might be rude, because one is supposed to be extra respectful of faith. Why this is so I don't know. Oh, and I am happy that you find comfort and aid in your faith. Respect for that. We're all different that way, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #280 June 29, 2006 Quotegod requires BELIEF WITH NO PROOF Actually, from a biblical standpoint ... Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #281 June 29, 2006 Quote If my Flying Spaghetti Monsterism started to have real, tangible effects on your every day life, you'd start not to take Flying Spaghetti Monsterism seriously, but to take the consquences of seriously. . I see your point to a degree, but I don't get upset with Islam because fundamental muslims are killing people. I don't agree with the tenents of Islamic faith, but I'm quick to separate the wackos from the general mass of Muslims. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #282 June 29, 2006 belief in jesus or any of the other 16 (or so) virgin-born saviours is nothing more than mind control. a masters degree in "theology' is nothing more than eight years of brainwashing. the bible is absolutely NOTHING more than a fairytale. people who say it is rude to call it a fairytale do not know anything of the fact that religion, be it islam,christianity, etc., is the tool that has been used to rape murder burn torture, and kill the people who were to intelligent to bow thier knee to MAN-MADE belief systems. i challenge you, steveorino, to go to this website and read everything on it, and come back and say you still "believe" in the myth of jesus www.christianism.comwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #283 June 29, 2006 I will go and read some (man, there is a lot and my reading for a MS in counsleing is consuming me now) However, I doubt little if anything I read there will change what I "know" in my spirit to be true. I came to a relationship with Christ, not through ancient writings of semantic people,but through a personal encounter with Christ. I realize to you and many others this will sound weird, and most likely be misinterpreted, but Christ is a real to me as my wife and kids. I'd no more disbelieve Christ is real based on your plethora of atheists links than I would to disbelieve my family exist because your authors stated so. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #284 June 29, 2006 That is a very interesting definition of faith. By that I don't see how anyone could say that faith is based on any solid evidence. Being sure of what you hope for is no proof of anything. Being certain of what you can't see is not much better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #285 June 29, 2006 I think many non-christians feel threatened by christians because there's no other religion trying to codify their own morality/religion into law (edit: in the United States). You don't see Hindus insisting that "Brahma created the world" be taught in science classes. I don't care what someone else believes or how they live their life. I do care when they want to force me to live my life the same way. Examples: gay marriage laws HCR-13 (missouri) abortion ban in South Dakota "broadcast decency enforcement act" "child interstate abortion notification law" "holly's law" "human cloning prohibition act" "marriage protection amendment" initiative funding "faith based" organizations Movements to teach "intelligent design" and creationism in public school ban on stem sell research "pledge protection act" "public expression of religion" bill "partial-birth" abortion ban "human life amendment" abstinence only education There are hundreds more... From the Christian Coalition website: "we continuously work to identify, educate and mobilize Christians for effective political action! Such action will preserve, protect and defend the Judeo-Christian values that made this the greatest country in history." Should non-christians feel threatened by christian legal agendas? Probably. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #286 June 29, 2006 christ=chretian(ancient Savoyard word)=idiot atheist=a person who believes in one less god that you blindly believe and refuse to accept the fact that jesus is a myth proves how EASILY your mind can be controlled. a masters in theology, a bachelor,s or whatever in psychology? brainwashed, not once, but twice. www.truthbeknown.com[url]we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #287 June 29, 2006 QuoteOk Mockingbird lets do this again. According to your definition "Faith= the assurance of the heart in the adequacy of the evidence " When I read this I see that it is your HEART that is assuring you that the evidence you see is adequate. Hmmmm now lets look at what else you have written. QuoteYes, you are right, the heart CAN be deceiving and often is. And yes, you remember it correctly being written somewhere in my precious bible (tho' I picked up on your sarcastic tone!). The entire sentence is: "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick; who can understand it?" Some of use our BRAINS to evaluate the evidence.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #288 June 29, 2006 here is how easy it is to control someone else's mind religion, television, radio, nationalism all are tools to control the minds of ignorant sheeple. the definition of 'priest' is the leader of the herd! bible belivers are a herd animal www.jordanmaxwell.comwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #290 June 29, 2006 I figured you would agree with Hairyjuan on this one since Jesus did refer to his followers as his little flock. at least that is what it says in the bible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #291 June 29, 2006 QuoteI figured you would agree with Hairyjuan on this one since Jesus did refer to his followers as his little flock. at least that is what it says in the bible. It’s better to be the lowliest sheep in God's flock than the most powerful man on Earth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #292 June 29, 2006 so sayeth the bible! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #293 June 29, 2006 Quoteso sayeth the bible! And what I saideth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #294 June 30, 2006 Quotechrist=chretian(ancient Savoyard word)=idiot atheist=a person who believes in one less god that you blindly believe and refuse to accept the fact that jesus is a myth proves how EASILY your mind can be controlled. a masters in theology, a bachelor,s or whatever in psychology? brainwashed, not once, but twice. With your smooth talk and flattery, its had to believe you haven't convinced me to be an atheist yet. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #295 June 30, 2006 QuoteAgain, this is only more evidence that your god doesn't want you to know he/she/it exists. How did you come to that conclusion from the biblical principle which Royd mentioned???? QuoteIt all ends up being "I felt god's presence" which is a totally subjective experience which by nature, does not provide evidence for anything outside of your capability to self-induce feelings you attribute to the presence of god. Well, you're right about one thing-- subjective experiences alone--of God's presence-- don't provide evidence for the existence, etc. of God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #296 June 30, 2006 QuoteOk Mockingbird lets do this again. According to your definition "Faith= the assurance of the heart in the adequacy of the evidence " When I read this I see that it is your HEART that is assuring you that the evidence you see is adequate. I'm sorry; I used a metaphor ("heart") in my homemade definition, and I shouldn't have. Is the following less confusing? "Faith is assurance in the adequacy of the evidence." Yeah, actually I even like that better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #297 June 30, 2006 QuoteSome of use our BRAINS to evaluate the evidence. I suppose pagans don't miss a beat either! John, in case you missed it, see reply to beowulf above. I love it when you pretend to misunderstand just to get in a swipe. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #298 June 30, 2006 that just makes it more vague, but hey what ever floats your boat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #299 June 30, 2006 QuoteAnd I'll mention it again, didn't the people of Egypt have a story of a major figure (Horus) that the story of Jesus is 95% carbon copied from? I take it someone's been reading "Christ Conspiracy" propaganda! If you really care about arriving at the truth, you'll run out and get something like Evidence That Demands a Verdict, read that, and then make up your mind. But for starters, you could take a look at this http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html, which is an article called "Walk Like an Egyptian: Comparing Osiris, Horus, and Jesus." Forget that suggestion. It would be better if you simply read the gospel of John--- in the bible, that is. Would you do that?Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #300 June 30, 2006 QuoteI'll add to that. The heart (emotion/feeling) is deceitful so you can't trust your heart. Your mind (thought/reasoning) is limited in it's capacity to understand things of god, so that's shot. And you have a sinful nature which puts your will (action/desire) against the will of god, so you're fucked there too. These 3 things comprise the soul. There is no evidence of any "spirit" and Royd already clarified that humans are pretty much incapable of experiencing things of the spirit so that's worthless. For shaiziel (it probably won't make sense to anyone else): Hope for the heart ("emotion/feeling"): Test it by an objective standard Hope for the mind ("thought/reasoning"): 2 Cor. 3:14-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20cor.%203:14-17&version=51) Hope for the will ("action/desire"): Romans 8:9,12-14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208:9,12-14;&version=51;)Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
