shropshire 0 #26 November 2, 2005 I dont know, I ask his mom when I next bump into her in Tescos (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #27 November 2, 2005 QuoteDo you vote? who did you vote on past election? As of a few months ago I can vote and trust me I will. It is the main reason I became a citizen.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #28 November 2, 2005 QuoteI dont know, I ask his mom when I next bump into her in Tescos Are we going to start mom jokes???????I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 November 2, 2005 QuoteAre we going to start mom jokes??????? his mom did so did yours so did Wopalo's ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #30 November 2, 2005 Well lets see. When I or someone else posts how there is plains that take US prisoners to other countries and there is people who try to justify such a thing “them”. When there is pictures and proof that detainees were tortured and there is people who want to say it wasn’t real torture or that it’s no big deal “them”. I have a bunch more but I think you get the ideaI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #31 November 2, 2005 Ever seen the 13 warrior? I like his response to the VikingsI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #32 November 2, 2005 >And here is your random number 3.141698, spin it... Funny side story from WaPo. Politicians spin all the time, but it's rare that you see them _literally_ spinning their message: --------------- As lawmakers raced between the chamber and Frist's office, reporters surrounded Frist chief of staff Eric Ueland. "It was a nonstop rant to build up to a political stunt!" Ueland said of Reid. As he leveled these charges, Ueland turned in a 360-degree circle so that all the journalists could hear him. "You're spinning!" one of the reporters observed. --------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #33 November 2, 2005 What is REALLY interesting here, is that you guys have read a report about the existence of some secret detention centers being run by a multinational group of counterterrorism operatives, and without hesitation, you have all ASS-umed that there is torture going on rampantly. Not once does the article mention torture. If you can't discern a difference between "interrogation" and "torture", then we've reached the root of the problem already. It just further goes to show that so many people are just eager and desperate to see the US as the bad guys.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #34 November 2, 2005 >It just further goes to show that so many people are just eager and >desperate to see the US as the bad guys. Lately no one has to be either one to see that. Torture people once, you get a scolding. Torture and kill innocent prisoners dozens of times, and it's not just the nuts who start thinking that something is wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #35 November 2, 2005 I want to know who leaked this top secret information about CIA operations. We need an investigation. Someone call Patrick Leahy. He will get to the bottom of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wopelao 0 #36 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteAre we going to start mom jokes??????? his mom did so did yours so did Wopalo's We'll start with yours... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #37 November 2, 2005 QuoteWhat is REALLY interesting here... and without hesitation, you have all ASS-umed Do you ever make assumptions (or, heaven forbid, form opinions) about things, Trent, when you don't have all the facts? If so, do you think it might be a bit inappropriate to be so goddamned condescending to people about something of which you, yourself, might also be guilty at times? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namgrunt 0 #38 November 2, 2005 Daniel Pearl says its ok remember him?? the same slime that videod cutting off his heas are incoserated there. lets remember the 3000 that died 9/11 those pore souls would jump at the chance to be inprisioned rather than intumed ..59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #39 November 2, 2005 How many "innocent" prisoners have been tortured and killed, Bill? I guess I'd have to ask what you consider torture, because it's pretty apparent that a pair of panties and being moved to Club Cuba are enough reason to cry torture. Can you point out the rampant torturing and killing we're doing? Maybe then I'll beleive that y'all aren't nuts.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #40 November 2, 2005 I think it's entirely appropriate to point out that many people on this forum just drool for a chance to make the US look bad, even when they have no evidence. If I have offended those people by pointing out that their zeal for slamming the US caused them to make up something that wasn't even mentioned in the article, good! Whether or not I've ever assumed anything isn't relevant... shouldn't you be ABOVE that stuff? Kinda like people keep claiming the US should be ABOVE doing anything that could actually help them win the war on terror? Like it or not, the assumptions in this thread alone are enough to show that many people just can't wait to bash the US. Don't like what I'm saying, go read the article, then read the thread.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #41 November 2, 2005 QuoteI think it's entirely appropriate to point out that many people on this forum just drool for a chance to make the US look bad I think the US does a pretty good job of that all themselves I don't think it is a big secret that both the US and Canada are using other regimes to torture detainees for them...or allow it to happen on their soil...enough stories floating around if you are interested in finding out... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #42 November 2, 2005 QuoteI think it's entirely appropriate to point out that many people on this forum just drool for a chance to make the US look bad, even when they have no evidence. I'll give you that, but you have to admit that they're just a subset of the greater group of people on this forum who just drool for a chance to make their political opponents, regardless of who they are, look bad. Pointing it out is appropriate. Being blatantly condescending to others about something of which you, yourself, are also blatantly guilty, however, is not IMHO. Quote If I have offended those people by pointing out that their zeal for slamming the US caused them to make up something that wasn't even mentioned in the article, good! Most of us know you're smart, Trent. Most of us know you're well educated. Most of us know that you're a good writer, using clear, concise language to convey your positions and arguments. Most of us even know you earned a gold medal. Your condescension is not going to elevate you much in most of our eyes, as we're already aware of your gifts and talents. Nor is it going to be that effective in enlightening people to the errs of their ways, particularly when compared to other, say, less demeaning methods of communicating your point. The only thing this if-I-offended-people-then-good approach of yours is going to effectively accomplish is stroking your own ego. And that's just fucking sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #43 November 2, 2005 Please give me one good reason to have a covert prison system when there are prisons out in the open already violating peoples' basic human rights? What possible reason would there be to hide the existence of these prisons other than to avoid scrutiny because you're doing something that wouldn't pass it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #44 November 2, 2005 I don't see anything I've said about these prisons to be stroking my own ego. Nor do I think that pointing out when people are jumping to conclusions, particularly when the people doing it are all over anyone who disagrees with them on a regular basis, is condescending. At the least it is no more or less condescending than the typical tone people take here. I think you might be overreacting to my hyphenation of the word "assume". As for what you may or may not know about me, it doesn't make a bit of difference to me in what I think about this matter. I find it every bit as offensive to hear the constant "US=Bad" bullshit as you do to have a position that you may or may not support pointed out to you as hypocrisy. Who I am or what I've done doesn't change the accuracy of my statement. But hey, it's okay to think whatever you want. As long as I can do the same!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #45 November 2, 2005 QuotePlease give me one good reason to have a covert prison system when there are prisons out in the open already violating peoples' basic human rights? What possible reason would there be to hide the existence of these prisons other than to avoid scrutiny because you're doing something that wouldn't pass it? So the countries they are located in won't be hit by a terrorist attack. So the terrorists won't attack the prisons in an attempt to break their buddies out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #46 November 2, 2005 QuotePlease give me one good reason to have a covert prison system when there are prisons out in the open already violating peoples' basic human rights? I don't know, but if we're already out in the open violating basic human rights, why hide it in a covert prison? QuoteWhat possible reason would there be to hide the existence of these prisons other than to avoid scrutiny because you're doing something that wouldn't pass it? I can think of a few reasons, but that doesn't mean that's what's going on. Here's a couple of my ideas... Maybe they're situated geographically as somewhere to take recently captured prisoners for a quick interrogation instead of sending them all the way around the world. This actually might mean they get home faster if they're deemed to not be a bad guy. Maybe the locations mean there are local law enforcement people around who will speak the language better, or understand the situations better and can reach the prisoners in interrogation. Maybe it will allow quicker reaction to gathered intelligence since it doesn't have to go through so many people before a decision can be made. Or... hell, maybe it's just so they can beat the shit out of innocent people who know nothing about anything and keep it at arm's length from the US government. Maybe y'all are right!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #47 November 2, 2005 QuoteI don't know, but if we're already out in the open violating basic human rights, why hide it in a covert prison? Ummm...to do even worse stuff than hold people indefinitely without charges. I like all of your suppositions except for one thing....not one addresses why these prisons were kept secret. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias 0 #48 November 2, 2005 http://www.radio4all.org/crackcia/torture.htm Deprivation of Sensory Stimuli Threats and Fear, Pain (Pain that is being inflicted upon the subject from outside himself may actually intensify his will to resist. On the other hand, pain that he feels he is inflicting upon himself is more likely to sap his resistance. For example, if he is required to maintain a rigid position such as standing at attention or sitting on a stool for long periods of time, the immediate source of discomfort is not the questioner but the subject himself. After a while, the subject is likely to exhaust his internal motivational strength) Hypnosis and Heightened Suggestibility Narcosis REGRESSION even ...waterboarding Got no problem with any of it to get quality intel ....murder, mamming and perminent detention is where I draw the line Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #49 November 2, 2005 >How many "innocent" prisoners have been tortured and killed, Bill? Around 20 killed, 400 tortured. >I guess I'd have to ask what you consider torture . . . Prisoners hooded with a heavy cloth hood and placed in a 120F room. One choked to death on his own sweat. Prisoners beaten with chains. Prisoners kicked while handcuffed on the ground. Prisoners having electrodes attached to their testicles. If your friend were in one of these prisons, which of the above would you be OK with? Would you see him come out of such a prison with broken ribs and a bloody face and chide him for being upset about some panties? >Can you point out the rampant torturing and killing we're doing? Done that; it's a waste of time. Do a search here for the relevant posts. Better yet, do your own search. I won't try to argue with you on it; you clearly have faith in your beliefs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #50 November 2, 2005 Of course you aren't addressing the tortures and killings in the covert prisons. Trent, you think maybe they're covert so that the questions can't be answered? Come on, open your eyes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
