crozby 0 #1 November 2, 2005 QuoteCIA runs secret terrorism prisons: WPost Wednesday Nov 2 23:55 AEST The CIA has been holding and interrogating al-Qaeda captives at a secret facility in Eastern Europe, part of a covert prison system established after the September 11, 2001, attacks, The Washington Post reports. The Soviet-era compound was part of a network that included sites in eight countries, including Thailand and Afghanistan, the newspaper reported on Wednesday, citing US and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement. ... About 30 major terrorism suspects had been held at black sites while more than 70 other detainees, considered less important, were delivered to foreign intelligence services under a process known as "rendition," the paper said, citing US and foreign intelligence sources. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=70139 QuoteUS Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says he will not allow UN human rights monitors free access to detainees in the Guantanamo Bay prison camp. The monitors were invited to visit the camp by the Pentagon last week, three years after a request by the UN. However, they said they would not visit the camp if a ban on private interviews with detainees remained in place. About 500 people are held at the camp. To date, only the Red Cross has been granted direct access to prisoners. Mr Rumsfeld said he was rejecting the monitors' request for free access because the Red Cross had "complete and total access". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4398034.stm My questions are these: Are Americans comfortable with US government sanctioned mistreatment of prisoners? If so, why does it need to take place abroad? Why don't they stand proud and let the torture take place on American soil? Why all this sneaking around? If not, when are the American people going to stand up and tell their government in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is wrong? My own view is that people in a democracy that sit quietly whilst their government repeatedly breaks international law are as guilty as their government is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #2 November 2, 2005 QuoteMy own view is that people in a democracy that sit quietly whilst their government repeatedly breaks international law are as guilty as their government is. International law is one thing. Common decency is quite another. Apparently the present administration is prepared to ignore both. The fact that you can put people in a legal limbo simply by detaining them off-shore does not make it right.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #3 November 2, 2005 If true, I am deeply ashamed of my government. QuoteIf not, when are the American people going to stand up and tell their government in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is wrong? About 47% of us have been for quite awhile. Unfortunately, not quite enough of us. But I think people are finally starting to wake up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #4 November 2, 2005 Brought to you by the people that promised to bring honesty, morality and integrity to the presidency...illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #5 November 2, 2005 QuoteBrought to you by the people that promised to bring honesty, morality and integrity to the presidency... That referred to blowjobs only. Torture, invasion of sovereign nations, fraud, election tampering, and mass murder were not included. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 November 2, 2005 QuoteInternational law is one thing. Common decency is quite another. And yet another thing is the fact that we as Americans never did this shit before. It's one of the reasons opposing troops would surrender to us. What was that thing in WWII? "Here's how you survive the war. Be a good German and join the infantry. Volunteer for front-lin service. Then surrender to the first American you see." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #7 November 2, 2005 ***Are Americans comfortable with US government sanctioned mistreatment of prisoners? Sure............. if it aids in getting good intel......Why not? If not,then it's a waste of time, resources,etc.Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #8 November 2, 2005 Quote***Are Americans comfortable with US government sanctioned mistreatment of prisoners? Sure............. if it aids in getting good intel......Why not? Because we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #9 November 2, 2005 QuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or notMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #10 November 2, 2005 Our boys mistreated, tortured or held under really shitty situations? Nah, you've got to be kidding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SudsyFist 0 #11 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or not So you wouldn't object to encouraging this further? Do you have any service-age children, by chance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #12 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or not Then what exactly makes us different?Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #13 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or not Murder, rape, child molestation, and animal cruelty happen whether you, me, or anyone else likes it. Should we engage in those as well? Sometimes you just have to take the higher road and hope that others follow. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #14 November 2, 2005 Haaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ReBirth 0 #15 November 2, 2005 QuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? And torture is well known for producing reliable intel. People would never think to say what their torturers want them to hear, whether the truth or not. NOT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #16 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? And torture is well known for producing reliable intel. People would never think to say what their torturers want them to hear, whether the truth or not. NOT. alright Wayne. That extra not was just gratuitous. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #17 November 2, 2005 QuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel dentistry never seemed to appear on Americas UK list of priorities before...... so what's changed? There, fixed it for you.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #18 November 2, 2005 ***<< if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel dentistry never seemed to appear on Americas UK list of priorities before...... so what's changed? Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #19 November 2, 2005 ... daren't smile (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #20 November 2, 2005 QuoteMy questions are these: Are Americans comfortable with US government sanctioned mistreatment of prisoners? Unfortunately some just care if the victims are Americans if not they really don’t care and would much rather find an excuse to make it seem ok or ignore the facts completely. There seems to be more focus on who some celebrity is fucking then what our government is doing to other humans. QuoteIf so, why does it need to take place abroad? Why don't they stand proud and let the torture take place on American soil? Why all this sneaking around? Simple. We like the illusion that we are a beacon of freedom, and we are but only to our own citizens. What we do to others simply doesn’t matter to the government. We are only humane to the humans who are a citizen of the USA. QuoteIf not, when are the American people going to stand up and tell their government in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is wrong? My own view is that people in a democracy that sit quietly whilst their government repeatedly breaks international law are as guilty as their government is. Many don’t believe it is wrong(i am not one of the many). It is not hard to see that we have a one sided view on things. We hold different values for human life depending on witch country the human was a citizen of. I here the out cry and sympathetic tones in our news when they mention over 2000 American troops have died. I agree it is very sad but it is also sad how many Iraqi civilians we have killed. How we started this war by being mislead (that’s the nice way to put it), for the wrong reasons. That after 4 years we still have not caught the guy on top OBL. It is all about the money and nothing else.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #21 November 2, 2005 Do you vote? who did you vote on past election? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #22 November 2, 2005 Friendlies torture Them = intel' collection.. They torture Friendlies = Terrorism..... ummm no double standards there then (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #23 November 2, 2005 Seriously, why Prince Charles, who obviously can afford a good dentist, does not get one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #24 November 2, 2005 QuoteUnfortunately some just care We like the illusion that we are We are only humane Many don’t believe who are these 'we' 'some' and 'many' you talk about with such self righteous and sad outrage? Is it 10 people you know? Is it 0.0001% of the public? Is it everybody except you and your friends? I'd really like to know, as I don't believe you are talking for me and anyone I know and, frankly, no one I know here on these forums for that matter (both US or International) and don't appreciate the sloppy generalization you use to try and make 'some' people look like some kind of gross problem that you assume when you meet a complete stranger. No one likes to be stereotyped and you do it in spades here. Edit: If you really think that, then you walk up to each person at your DZ, both Friends and Strangers, and directly accuse THAT individual, to their face, of being this way. See how that goes and how it makes you feel to treat those people unfairly. Let us know how it went to do that personally, instead of as an abstraction in your mind. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #25 November 2, 2005 HHmmm, I was thinking the same thing..... And here is your random number 3.141698, spin it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Wopelao 0 #10 November 2, 2005 Our boys mistreated, tortured or held under really shitty situations? Nah, you've got to be kidding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #11 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or not So you wouldn't object to encouraging this further? Do you have any service-age children, by chance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #12 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or not Then what exactly makes us different?Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #13 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or not Murder, rape, child molestation, and animal cruelty happen whether you, me, or anyone else likes it. Should we engage in those as well? Sometimes you just have to take the higher road and hope that others follow. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #14 November 2, 2005 Haaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ReBirth 0 #15 November 2, 2005 QuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? And torture is well known for producing reliable intel. People would never think to say what their torturers want them to hear, whether the truth or not. NOT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #16 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? And torture is well known for producing reliable intel. People would never think to say what their torturers want them to hear, whether the truth or not. NOT. alright Wayne. That extra not was just gratuitous. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #17 November 2, 2005 QuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel dentistry never seemed to appear on Americas UK list of priorities before...... so what's changed? There, fixed it for you.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #18 November 2, 2005 ***<< if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel dentistry never seemed to appear on Americas UK list of priorities before...... so what's changed? Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #19 November 2, 2005 ... daren't smile (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #20 November 2, 2005 QuoteMy questions are these: Are Americans comfortable with US government sanctioned mistreatment of prisoners? Unfortunately some just care if the victims are Americans if not they really don’t care and would much rather find an excuse to make it seem ok or ignore the facts completely. There seems to be more focus on who some celebrity is fucking then what our government is doing to other humans. QuoteIf so, why does it need to take place abroad? Why don't they stand proud and let the torture take place on American soil? Why all this sneaking around? Simple. We like the illusion that we are a beacon of freedom, and we are but only to our own citizens. What we do to others simply doesn’t matter to the government. We are only humane to the humans who are a citizen of the USA. QuoteIf not, when are the American people going to stand up and tell their government in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is wrong? My own view is that people in a democracy that sit quietly whilst their government repeatedly breaks international law are as guilty as their government is. Many don’t believe it is wrong(i am not one of the many). It is not hard to see that we have a one sided view on things. We hold different values for human life depending on witch country the human was a citizen of. I here the out cry and sympathetic tones in our news when they mention over 2000 American troops have died. I agree it is very sad but it is also sad how many Iraqi civilians we have killed. How we started this war by being mislead (that’s the nice way to put it), for the wrong reasons. That after 4 years we still have not caught the guy on top OBL. It is all about the money and nothing else.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #21 November 2, 2005 Do you vote? who did you vote on past election? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #22 November 2, 2005 Friendlies torture Them = intel' collection.. They torture Friendlies = Terrorism..... ummm no double standards there then (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #23 November 2, 2005 Seriously, why Prince Charles, who obviously can afford a good dentist, does not get one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #24 November 2, 2005 QuoteUnfortunately some just care We like the illusion that we are We are only humane Many don’t believe who are these 'we' 'some' and 'many' you talk about with such self righteous and sad outrage? Is it 10 people you know? Is it 0.0001% of the public? Is it everybody except you and your friends? I'd really like to know, as I don't believe you are talking for me and anyone I know and, frankly, no one I know here on these forums for that matter (both US or International) and don't appreciate the sloppy generalization you use to try and make 'some' people look like some kind of gross problem that you assume when you meet a complete stranger. No one likes to be stereotyped and you do it in spades here. Edit: If you really think that, then you walk up to each person at your DZ, both Friends and Strangers, and directly accuse THAT individual, to their face, of being this way. See how that goes and how it makes you feel to treat those people unfairly. Let us know how it went to do that personally, instead of as an abstraction in your mind. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wopelao 0 #25 November 2, 2005 HHmmm, I was thinking the same thing..... And here is your random number 3.141698, spin it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
livendive 8 #13 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteBecause we wouldn't want it done to our boys. Happens anyway........whether you me or anyone else likes it or not Murder, rape, child molestation, and animal cruelty happen whether you, me, or anyone else likes it. Should we engage in those as well? Sometimes you just have to take the higher road and hope that others follow. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #14 November 2, 2005 Haaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #15 November 2, 2005 QuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? And torture is well known for producing reliable intel. People would never think to say what their torturers want them to hear, whether the truth or not. NOT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #16 November 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel never seemed to appear on Americas list of priorities before...... so what's changed? And torture is well known for producing reliable intel. People would never think to say what their torturers want them to hear, whether the truth or not. NOT. alright Wayne. That extra not was just gratuitous. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wopelao 0 #17 November 2, 2005 QuoteHaaaaaa! << if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel dentistry never seemed to appear on Americas UK list of priorities before...... so what's changed? There, fixed it for you.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #18 November 2, 2005 ***<< if it aids in getting good intel>> - good intel dentistry never seemed to appear on Americas UK list of priorities before...... so what's changed? Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #19 November 2, 2005 ... daren't smile (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #20 November 2, 2005 QuoteMy questions are these: Are Americans comfortable with US government sanctioned mistreatment of prisoners? Unfortunately some just care if the victims are Americans if not they really don’t care and would much rather find an excuse to make it seem ok or ignore the facts completely. There seems to be more focus on who some celebrity is fucking then what our government is doing to other humans. QuoteIf so, why does it need to take place abroad? Why don't they stand proud and let the torture take place on American soil? Why all this sneaking around? Simple. We like the illusion that we are a beacon of freedom, and we are but only to our own citizens. What we do to others simply doesn’t matter to the government. We are only humane to the humans who are a citizen of the USA. QuoteIf not, when are the American people going to stand up and tell their government in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is wrong? My own view is that people in a democracy that sit quietly whilst their government repeatedly breaks international law are as guilty as their government is. Many don’t believe it is wrong(i am not one of the many). It is not hard to see that we have a one sided view on things. We hold different values for human life depending on witch country the human was a citizen of. I here the out cry and sympathetic tones in our news when they mention over 2000 American troops have died. I agree it is very sad but it is also sad how many Iraqi civilians we have killed. How we started this war by being mislead (that’s the nice way to put it), for the wrong reasons. That after 4 years we still have not caught the guy on top OBL. It is all about the money and nothing else.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wopelao 0 #21 November 2, 2005 Do you vote? who did you vote on past election? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #22 November 2, 2005 Friendlies torture Them = intel' collection.. They torture Friendlies = Terrorism..... ummm no double standards there then (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wopelao 0 #23 November 2, 2005 Seriously, why Prince Charles, who obviously can afford a good dentist, does not get one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #24 November 2, 2005 QuoteUnfortunately some just care We like the illusion that we are We are only humane Many don’t believe who are these 'we' 'some' and 'many' you talk about with such self righteous and sad outrage? Is it 10 people you know? Is it 0.0001% of the public? Is it everybody except you and your friends? I'd really like to know, as I don't believe you are talking for me and anyone I know and, frankly, no one I know here on these forums for that matter (both US or International) and don't appreciate the sloppy generalization you use to try and make 'some' people look like some kind of gross problem that you assume when you meet a complete stranger. No one likes to be stereotyped and you do it in spades here. Edit: If you really think that, then you walk up to each person at your DZ, both Friends and Strangers, and directly accuse THAT individual, to their face, of being this way. See how that goes and how it makes you feel to treat those people unfairly. Let us know how it went to do that personally, instead of as an abstraction in your mind. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wopelao 0 #25 November 2, 2005 HHmmm, I was thinking the same thing..... And here is your random number 3.141698, spin it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
