Gravitymaster 0 #26 November 7, 2005 Quote>It may not be your idea of Political Correctness . . . It's not political correctness, it's compassion - an emotion sadly lacking on all sides nowadays. We have replaced compassion with rage. It's a lot more fun, and a lot easier to manipulate people with, but it makes the world a poorer place. OK, how about Bush says FUCK YOU and then we go in and help them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #27 November 7, 2005 I would be amazed if the French asked the USA or any other country for help to quell some riots. This is not the first time there have been race riots in France and it won't be the last. I don't think any multi race country is imune from race riots. They have happed in the USA and the Uk in the past and it doesn't take much to spark them off , especially in the deprived run down areas.---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #28 November 7, 2005 QuoteWouldn't you just die if they ask the US for help. LOL. You clearly know fuck-all about the French. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #29 November 7, 2005 QuoteThat would really show the world what we're made of. After 9/11, they offer us assistance, and claim 'we are all americans today.' When we need it, we tell them to fuck off. Perhaps we could kneecap some of their children while we're at it, to show we don't put up with whiny French kids. it is interesting to watch how some americans have this deep seeded rage inside them. How they blame 9/11 for all of this, but seem to forget how 9/11 fortified the western world. The shows of compassion, help, support in all shapes and sizes was truly incredible. It is utterly unbelievable that the tables have turned so much since... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #30 November 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat would really show the world what we're made of. After 9/11, they offer us assistance, and claim 'we are all americans today.' When we need it, we tell them to fuck off. Perhaps we could kneecap some of their children while we're at it, to show we don't put up with whiny French kids. it is interesting to watch how some americans have this deep seeded rage inside them. How they blame 9/11 for all of this, but seem to forget how 9/11 fortified the western world. The shows of compassion, help, support in all shapes and sizes was truly incredible. It is utterly unbelievable that the tables have turned so much since... Nothing is unbelievable with the incompetent leadership we have.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #31 November 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat would really show the world what we're made of. After 9/11, they offer us assistance, and claim 'we are all americans today.' When we need it, we tell them to fuck off. Perhaps we could kneecap some of their children while we're at it, to show we don't put up with whiny French kids. it is interesting to watch how some americans have this deep seeded rage inside them. How they blame 9/11 for all of this, but seem to forget how 9/11 fortified the western world. The shows of compassion, help, support in all shapes and sizes was truly incredible. It is utterly unbelievable that the tables have turned so much since... 1st off - just because a couple of guys on a forum think it would be funny to abandon historic allies, doesn't mean our government would do that. We would help our friends if they asked. I have no doubt of that I doubt anyone here really does, although they might say so just to advance some obscure political point. What's worse is a couple of replies that take those comments seriously. France has a lot of issues and the government there does like to deflect that internal pressure by highlighting international issues. It's gives their populace someone else to focus on - many times the US, but not always. Still it's PR policy, not the people themselves. This focused lack on introspection has blown up. The government there has much to address for the sake of her people. It's sad that a subset of people can enter a country with such little respect to go on murderous riots like this. I hope the French people can weather this strongly. I wish them the best. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #32 November 7, 2005 QuoteActually, the blame for that comes mostly from oppressive monarchies that are supported by the west. That's why they hate us. Forget all this shit about them being jealous of us. They are oppressed in their homelands by regimes that we (the west in general) are in bed with. Here, we partially agree, believe it or not. But I think it's more complex. Many of these regimes have been seen as necessary evils in the past, in their own way, but it was what the regimes did, in the face of western support that stirred up the bee's nest. QuoteI don't understand why it's necessary for us to spread freedom and democracy by invading, killing and occupying while Musharraf is our biest buddy in the M.E. How fucking hypocritical. Musharraf is giving up his role as General as a part of the Pakistani constitutional mandate. His coup was a good thing and he's managed the tensions with India superbly. I think you underestimate him. As for the whole democracy thing...well, it looks like we won't have to invade Libya, Egypt, Jordan, or Saudi Arabia...the Iraqi campaign may yeild a far greater ripple effect than some may be able to envision. Libya, in from the cold, giving up arms programs, taking accountability for the terrorism and renormalizing with the world. Egypt, holding imperfect, but to date, the first series of elections and I can hope the ball will keep rolling. Jordan, one country where I don't think I'd mind if it stayed a monarchy. King Abdullah is quite an accomplished individual and has managed what few monarchies have been able to do. Iranians with long memories will remember that their promise of revolution under the mullahs has not come to be a reality, and I hope their sense of national pride will drive their own reforms.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #33 November 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat would really show the world what we're made of. After 9/11, they offer us assistance, and claim 'we are all americans today.' When we need it, we tell them to fuck off. Perhaps we could kneecap some of their children while we're at it, to show we don't put up with whiny French kids. it is interesting to watch how some americans have this deep seeded rage inside them. How they blame 9/11 for all of this, but seem to forget how 9/11 fortified the western world. The shows of compassion, help, support in all shapes and sizes was truly incredible. It is utterly unbelievable that the tables have turned so much since... I think what's even funnier and unbelievable is how those with deep seated hate and rage can't even discern when something is said jokingly and use every attempt to make ad hominen attacks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #34 November 7, 2005 QuoteWait, are you of the opinion that liberal social policies may have contributed to this pressure cooker? Yep, I think it is a BIG part of it. We all know that France has had really lax immigration policy for N. Africa and the Middle East. That was nice of them, but they didn't plan for what it'd do to their country. Now you have a HUGE number of people with little money and/or education living in a country that ostensibly is supposed to take care of those with no jobs (socialism). From my experiences there, the suburbanites are kinda looked down on due to a few things... culture, origin, education, and attitudes. There just wasn't enough tolerance or jobs to put everyone to work to have them acheive this "better life" that they thought they'd find in France. Is that the system's fault? Largely, but not all. I see these kids demanding jobs and respect when they have pretty much nothing to offer anyone. They've subsisted off of a welfare state for so long, unless something is given to them... they almost have no way of getting anything. I find it kinda stupid to take this shit out on the government though... if I moved to a country hoping for a better life... could I honestly and righteously blame the country when I couldn't get a job because I didn't bother to learn anything in the schools they gave me, didn't bother to speak their language properly, and isolated myself within a group of people like me and refused to integrate in the least? That's like sending an application to a company that you're not qualified to work for, then throwing a tantrum when they don't hire you. I could explain further, but I don't want to bother until people start bashing me for what I've already said. Now, on the subject of helping France if they asked for it... I would like to think I live in a country that would help without question when asked. Even if France has been somewhat anti-American for a while now, it is our duty to help even nominal allies when asked. For those that'd rather us say FUCK YOU, wouldn't it be a better "fuck you" to help them without question and ask for nothing in return? No matter how shitty France has been to us, I don't think they deserve to have their country torn to pieces because they have a large population of people that are acting like shitheads. But even I could see something like that coming from living there for 1/2 a year. I hope my friends are safe and that they get this settled without giving even more of their country away in the process.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #35 November 7, 2005 Good post until you got to this point. QuoteFor those that'd rather us say FUCK YOU, wouldn't it be a better "fuck you" to help them without question and ask for nothing in return? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1912994#1912994 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #36 November 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteWell, how many chrstians have committed acts of terrorism since, lets say, 2000? A couple thousand in the US alone. 16 bombing or arsons or attempts at them. Plus over a thousand incidents of Invasion, Assault & Battery, Vandalism, Trespassing, Death Threats, Burglary, Stalking... http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm This is a silly comparison. The first column (and presumably the most important) lists murders and attempted murders. The total since 2000 is ONE. Well Katie, bar the door. On the flip side, if France did ask for our help, WE SHOULD HELP THEM> Why? Because this is the United States of America and that's what we do. If we want to be considered a global leader, we should act accordingly. Are we somehow exempt from fighting the War on Terror in countries we have differences with? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #37 November 7, 2005 Quote Hardly a Christian hate crime agaist a homosexual. More like a couple of drunk redneck assholes. You think these young men in France are any more organized or directed than the thousands of drunk assholes in America that go gay bashing? Punks are punks, world wide. San Francisco has a gun rights group called the Pink Pistols. You think they're advocating just because they like the academic arguments for civil liberties? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #38 November 7, 2005 QuoteQuote Hardly a Christian hate crime agaist a homosexual. More like a couple of drunk redneck assholes. You think these young men in France are any more organized or directed than the thousands of drunk assholes in America that go gay bashing? Punks are punks, world wide. Nice attempt at getting people to overlook the obvious. These rioters are (for the most part) Muslims immigrants or children of immigrants. Of course, that's irrelevant... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wopelao 0 #39 November 7, 2005 Nah, they are not moved by clerics who are currently requesting to be left alone, and rule these parts as they see fit.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #40 November 7, 2005 The important thing is that if these riots aren't stopped soon, these "poor, misguided youths of non-specific descent and religion" may actually start to be really organized by agitators who DO want it to be a muslims vs. france thing. Knowing people from these areas, lots of them aren't really religious at all... but if they keep raging on and the mob mentality grows... it seems it would be possible to see them picking up the "in the name of Allah" motivation if properly prodded by some morally and ethically bankrupt extremist leaders in their communities.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #41 November 7, 2005 Nailed that one right on the head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaaska 0 #42 November 7, 2005 Quote France has a lot of issues and the government there does like to deflect that internal pressure by highlighting international issues. It's gives their populace someone else to focus on - many times the US, but not always. Still it's PR policy, not the people themselves. This focused lack on introspection has blown up. The government there has much to address for the sake of her people. . ...now that's a funny statement... I'm quite sure I've seen this same strategy been used by some other nations as well... I might be wrong... or NOT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #43 November 7, 2005 Good article in WSJ today about the influence of Muslim leaders in trying to STOP the violence by these independent rioters. Also goes on to talk about there will be bigger problems in the future because these leaders advocate a sub-culture of muslim society within western nations. But in the short term, as it relates to the current riots, the muslim community leaders are trying to stop the violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #44 November 7, 2005 Quote Nice attempt at getting people to overlook the obvious. These rioters are (for the most part) Muslims immigrants or children of immigrants. Of course, that's irrelevant... right? It's no more relevent than the fact that most 20yo men in America that go queer bashing are Christian. It was asserted that religion is the key for just the Muslum punks, and not the Christians. I tend to think that the lack of maturity is the key on both. These sort of riots don't happen by plan. They tend to happen by the total lack of planning and eventually it boils over. And then you have a bad combination of small brains, big muscles, and lots of idle time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #45 November 7, 2005 >The important thing is that if these riots aren't stopped soon, > these "poor, misguided youths of non-specific descent and religion" > may actually start to be really organized by agitators who DO want it > to be a muslims vs. france thing. Very good point. And once it becomes more organized, its influence may begin to spread beyond the borders of France - something that is surely not a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #46 November 7, 2005 QuoteThese rioters are (for the most part) Muslims immigrants... Problem: Immigrants. Solution: Deportation. Any immigrant caught involved in criminal acts in these riots should be immediately deported to their home country. If they think things are so bad in France, let them return to their lives in their home countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,545 #47 November 7, 2005 I'll bet a decent number of them are native-born French now, but their parents are not. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #48 November 7, 2005 QuoteI'll bet a decent number of them are native-born French now, but their parents are not. Wendy W. Very good point. The huge majority of them are indeed French, of Northern (or Western) African ancestry. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #49 November 7, 2005 QuoteI'm quite sure I've seen this same strategy been used by some other nations as well... I might be wrong... or NOT! Certainly guilty in the US. Certainly EXTREMELY guilty in Germany. It's a real issue in several nations. Particularly socialistic nations having a hard time with unemployment etc, but to some extent many nations of various political orientation. That this symptom is particularly poignant to the rough time that France is having to this thread title makes it less than humorous. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #50 November 7, 2005 QuoteProblem: Immigrants. Solution: Deportation. If all immigranst were deported from all countries....... we'd all be living in Africa (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
