Being Recruited to the Right! Help!

[rasmack 0]

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I don't want to ruin our already shaky relationship, so I agreed to having bible discussions with him.

Ahh... Damn! You already conceeded the most important ground. Religion is a matter of faith, not proof. You will now have endless discussions going like

"... and thus God exists."
"It does not convince me."
"How can it not convince you?!?"
"sigh..."

You must make him accept the fact that you don't have faith. If you will, you can dangle the carrot that you may find Jesus on your death bed

For your discussions I refer you to http://www.infidels.org/. You may want to start with Common Arguments.

I feel for you. Keep the (lack of) faith

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[AlexCrowley 0]

unfortunately as Wendy said, and as is clearly evident within the 'proud christian' thread - facts and logic have no place.

Like a mother who defends her child as a 'good boy' even though he murdered an entire family in cold blood, those who "BELIEVE" cannot be swayed by arguments that appeal to the intellect as belief is wired into the emotional centers - something far more primitive than logical thinking.

Unfortunately I think it's going to end badly while the brother remains in this headspace, especially if he cannot accept a gentle rebuffing from his sister on the subject.

Read any thread thats emotionally charged in SC and you'll see examples of emotional responses rather than reasoned replies.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[SudsyFist 0]

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Like a mother who defends her child as a 'good boy' even though he murdered an entire family in cold blood,

I tend to separate action from the individual.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I'm a christian myself, but I think you gotta let people walk their own path. The hard-sell approach just pushes people away.

Speed Racer
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[AlexCrowley 0]

you'd be a great mother

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[SpeedRacer 1]

BTW, I thought from the thread title you were being accosted by Rush Limbaugh fans or something...

Speed Racer
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[SudsyFist 0]

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you'd be a great mother

I've got long hair. Still working on the uterus.

[AlexCrowley 0]

arent we all.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[GTAVercetti 0]

You can have mine. This thing was NOT worth the money.

That is the LAST time I buy something from an ad beside the "X-RAY Specs" guy.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[NWFlyer 2]

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You jump from airplanes right? Is that salvation?

Probably all the more reason he feels the need to "convert" her... she's risking her life more than the average 22-year old so he wants to make sure she's on her way to the promised land.

Karen, I agree with what's been posted here - you will probably have to set some more serious limits with your brother. It may cause some strain for a while, but I think standing your ground will make both of you happier in the long run.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Gawain 0]

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Have any of you dealt with a family member or a close friend trying to push you into a religion?

Yes I have and it wasn't a pleasant experience for me either.

What is different for me is that I'm Catholic and I simply (and firmly) pointed out to her that I had faith and that my beliefs were founded in a doctrine a bit more established than hers.

When she kept pushing, I pointed out to her that no where in her bible did it require her to convert people to her beliefs.

When she kept pushing, I stated to her directly that it was zealots like her (regardless of religion) that were at the very core of most of today's problems in the world.

I've not seen, spoken or written to her since.

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I don't want to ruin our already shaky relationship, so I agreed to having bible discussions with him. I explained to him that I cannot have faith, I need proof. He is going to search the bible for historical proof and try to support it with secular historical texts.

While I don't know why you want to do that, I can tell you that both of you will learn a lot, if you each have open minds. You may find that your lack of "faith" is not the same as lack of "belief" in something (if anything).

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Or if you can't help me with what I am looking for.. how do I get him to quit worrying about me going to hell and leave me alone about religion?

Ask him to show you directly, where in his religion that it requires him to convert you. If he is a true Christian, he would accept you as you are, and live by the example he wishes to project. In theory, he could attract those to that way of living and believing. Unfortunately, most "born agains" don't get it.

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I am looking for responses only from people outside of the Christian religion or Christians who will give objective responses (Basically, don't try to get me to convert, it ain't happenin'.)

I won't try to convert you, only ask that you maintain an open mind when it comes to your brother's "talking points" when you two meet. At the same time, please admonish him to do the same for you.

Unfortunately, a starry-eyed-ram-rodded-born-again, in my experience, is not going to bring a lot of depth to the conversation. If you're on a shaky relationship with him, you might want to mentally prepare yourself for a strained, or broken relationship. In the end, you may find that you might have been better off not doing the "little meeting" thing. Best wishes.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rehmwa 2]

All this advice can be read also for anti-religious types trying to 'convert' religious people to their beliefs too.

just thought is needed saying

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gawain 0]

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All this advice can be read also for anti-religious types trying to 'convert' religious people to their beliefs too.

just thought is needed saying

You bring up a good point, though in my rather extensive travels throughout the US, I've yet to meet anyone try to convert me to any doctrine to thinking or faith except for born-again-Christians.

It would be kind of weird, a non-believer, went to a Christian, "Hey man, stop believing."

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[SudsyFist 0]

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It would be kind of weird, a non-believer, went to a Christian, "Hey man, stop believing."

I've broken several people of their faith.

[NWFlyer 2]

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It would be kind of weird, a non-believer, went to a Christian, "Hey man, stop believing."

I've broken several people of their faith.

I would think they could use you as living proof of the presence of Evil.

[SudsyFist 0]

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I would think they could use you as living proof of the presence of Evil.

Sheep's clothing, babe.

[jakee 1,536]

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They were originally angry with Prometheus for the whole fire debacle.

Not just fire. What got Zeus really pissed was when the little blighter tried to trick him into eating bones and gristle instead of the prime cuts of beef.

Y'know, if we're being picky and all

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PurpleBadger 0]

From the Bible - Matthew 7,6. 'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet.

Meaning... If you are going to try and push people into religion, they aren't going to accept (then you could put in a little argument that his interference in this is pushing you further away and possibly because of him you will never find 'salvation') Tell him people come around to things in their own time, then when they do accept them with open arms and 'cast ye your pearls' for them to take up and treasure.

[Rebecca 0]

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They were originally angry with Prometheus for the whole fire debacle.

Not just fire. What got Zeus really pissed was when the little blighter tried to trick him into eating bones and gristle instead of the prime cuts of beef.

Y'know, if we're being picky and all

Well that's 'cause those greedy bastards wanted all the good stuff for themselves. They're GODS! They don't need nuthin' but sweet ambrosia and nectar - why they gotta be jackin' the filets too?

I tell you what... let that mofo Zeus try that lameass swan routine on me. I put a cap in his feathery cloaca...

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Broke 0]

just tell him if he respects you as a person he should not try to push his religion on you. Doing so will only force you to avoid him like the plauge

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[Jimbo 0]

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If the only way I get to keep my brother in my life is to listen to him talk about religion and discuss it with him, well, I am willing to do that for my brother.

Good.

If nothing else I've found that discussion, honest discussion, about the Bible/religion (any religion, really) can be interesting. That is, of course, presuming that both sides are willing to actually listen to and respect the other.

Hell, in the long run, what's a few hours a month if it means a peaceful relationship with someone you love? It's nothing.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ReBirth 0]

Very true, Jimbo....but....I've never been able to have a rational discussion with a "born again" Christian. Catholics, lutherans, no problem...once that "born again" label hits the scene, my experience has been that they are on a mission to convert you whether you like it or not. Think Jehovah's Witness or 7th Day Adventist.

[JohnnyD 0]

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From the Bible - Matthew 7,6. 'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet.

Meaning... If you are going to try and push people into religion, they aren't going to accept (then you could put in a little argument that his interference in this is pushing you further away and possibly because of him you will never find 'salvation') Tell him people come around to things in their own time, then when they do accept them with open arms and 'cast ye your pearls' for them to take up and treasure.

I loves these. Let me try.

Meaning... Don't try to tell your teacher the dog ate your homework - she ain't buyin it. What kind of a dumbass is slopping the hogs with their pearls on? You should have your chores done before you go out for the evening.

[Tink1717 2]

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Have any of you dealt with a family member or a close friend trying to push you into a religion?

Yep, my brother, under the influence of his wife, is doing the same thing. It makes it even more annoying to know that before her, he had rejected religion and all the superstition that goes with it.

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Or if you can't help me with what I am looking for.. how do I get him to quit worrying about me going to hell and leave me alone about religion?

I got my brother to cease fire when I looked him dead in the eye and said: "I want you to know that I know that you know that I know that you don't know." He's been much more quiet since.

Also, I find that the usenet group "alt.atheism" is a good source of knowledge, just don't get sucked in the the x-tains who come there to prosteltize.

Good luck.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[RhondaLea 4]

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Have any of you dealt with a family member or a close friend trying to push you into a religion?

My mother, among others.

Sudsy had the best advice: "Role reversal. Ask him how he'd feel if you were constantly pushing atheism on him (in the same way that he is doing to you), and how it would impact your relationship."

The only thing I can add is that you might want to say to him: "Look, you know I don't believe, but you believe that God has the power to open my eyes. Very learned men have tried for years to prove the existence of God, and all of them have failed. There is no proof--belief is faith. You should realize that pushing any belief is going to turn someone off--it's just human nature, because everyone learns in their own way, in their own time. I don't mind if you pray for me, and perhaps if you focus your efforts on asking God to intervene instead of on trying to change my mind yourself, you'll have better results."

My mother and I have a much better relationship since she calmed down and limited herself to praying for my eventual salvation.

It could work. Maybe.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb