DrewGPM 0 #76 November 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteI chose to do X, you chose to do Y. We both missed something. Nope...if Y doesn't exist, how did I miss it? QuoteYou do your thing, i'll do mine. If I'm happy with mine, it doesn't matter whether you think i wasted it or not. Very true...and goes both ways. You don't KNOW that Y doesn't exist. You don't believe it exists, but you don't know that for a fact. If you tear down the building and prove to me that there is no bomb, that changes everything. But at this point you don't know, for a fact, that it doesn't exist. I hope you are happy with your life and I pray that the bomb doesn't take your non-believing life. If the bomb gets you, I'll feel like i failed you as friend and human being...I know that I should have tried harder to get you to believe. I guess that is one thing i would be afraid of in this world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #77 November 10, 2005 Good Post as well, but you forgot to end it with BOOOOMMMMM!!!! oops Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #78 November 10, 2005 Quoteshow me the bomb.I have a huge book full of documents and tons of stories being told by all these other people. If i could find the bomb, I'd have it removed...thus saving EVERYONE. But until we find it, please just believe me when i say that it is there. We'll find the proof eventually, but it may be to late to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #79 November 10, 2005 Well, this bring something else into focus: Believe, OR ELSE. Essentially a form of Pascal's Wager that easily is refuted. But still, the fundamental moral/ethical problem with this argument is that it's an argument of fear. One can discuss which is the greater good: doing something because it results in a reward, doing something to avoid being punished or just doing something because it "feels like the right thing to do". Heh yeah I loaded that point pretty heavily :D. I'm almost a little disgusted with people who "act in moral ways" in order to get a reward (heaven). I can to a certain extent understand those who "act in moral ways" to avoid eternal torture. But it is my personal belief that true moral living is acting out of conscience, not in order to get or avoid something. How this relates to the original posters dilemma...I guess it begs the question: "but why? What is the basis for him wanting so save his sister? Reward, because God will be pleased that he follows his commands and he won't have to worry about her burning in hell forever? Avoidance, as in not having to live (on earth and in heaven) with the knowledge that a loved one burns forever in torture, as well as God's Wrath for failing to do his bidding? Or does it comes from a sincere desire to do good? In other words, what are the intentions of the brother? Edited to fix speeling stuf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #80 November 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteHumans are not here to be saved, we are hear to learn.........quit being so scared. That is not the way ANY god wants it! So if you saw someone walk into a building you knew was gonna blow up, you wouldn't save them? If a child is about drink poison, you wouldn't save it? People are not here to be saved, but if I can save them doing something that I know will hurt them, I would be a jackass if I didn't try. Who said anything about god? I'm talking about a bomb. As an atheist I don't believe in god. I'm not scared of anything. I learned about a deadly bomb and I'm avoiding it. Others don't seem to know about the dangers of the bomb, so I'm helping them learn about it. I will teach those who want to learn about the bomb and pray for those who don't believe. I respect your decision not to believe in the bomb, but I hope take the time learn about before deciding not to believe. Yet people are convinced that I'm scared to live life and that i'm missing out things. I'm not scared or missing anything. You are just talking Dogma......you are talking as if there is no doubt about it that there is a bomb in the building. When in reality, if you started shouting at people that there is a bomb; spiritualy, they will look at you as if you are nuts. You are scared. All you seem to be talking about with religion is the negative portion of it........... Just like most religions (most humans are lead by fear) that is how religion recruits! you keep saying that you are trying to save people. I think you need to save yourself! "god gives you ten things not to do and if you do any of these ten things, then you will go to hell and burn, and scream for ever and ever and ever. Yes god will send you there..........................But he LOVES you!" George Carlin.----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,033 #81 November 10, 2005 >If you tear down the building and prove to me that there is no >bomb, that changes everything. No it wouldn't. You'd say "Well, Noah's Ark/the Genesis story/the world being flat/the bomb is really just a metaphor, but everything else is still true. You're still going to die." That very event has happened many times since biblical times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #82 November 10, 2005 OK, instead of the bomb...I have this book. If you read this book, you will have all the riches you desire, perfect health, people will love you and bad things won't happen to you. I gotta share this with everyone...everyone should be so happy! Dude, you gotta read this book. You'll have to read it for 1 hour a week, every week for 5 years....but it's worth it. What do mean you don't believe in the book? look how happy i am...how can you not believe? Look at those happy people, they read the book too. I want you to be happy...you gotta read this book! What do mean were a cult...it works...trust me. how can you not believe us? Once again, I must choose a path. do i let you walk away, know that you're missing out on this...or do i continue to push you until read it? My faith in the book is now being tested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #83 November 10, 2005 QuoteBut it is my personal belief that true moral living is acting out of conscience, not in order to get or avoid something. And that's why I'm not worried about the bomb. I try to live a moral life and to treat others with respect and kindness, because I have empathy for others and believe it is the right thing to do. If I'm wrong and the fact that I don't "believe" some fairy tale keeps me out of some eternal reward, so be it. But I wouldn't trust the judgment of a God who made decisions based on the level of faith we have. Do I accept Jesus as my personal lord and savior? Nope. Do I try to live my life in a good way that happens to coincide with his supposed gospel? Yes, I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #84 November 10, 2005 very well put. I agree completely. i'm an atheist, but the bible offers plenty of great stories that teach us how to be descent human beings. I struggle with that do not covet they neighbors wife...she is really cute and he treats he like crap! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1ofstrength 0 #85 November 14, 2005 Karen, you could ask your brother to buy you a copy of The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. That way you can read the book at your leisure, and avoid emotionally charged conversations with your brother. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
