Muslim Clergy Incite Attacks on Christians - Report

[bodypilot90 0]

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Why don't you police your own? Why do you let people like Terry Ratzmann kill indiscriminately for religious reasons? Don't you care?

http://www.wordofhisgrace.org/ratzmann.htm

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Meredith is quite truthful in saying that the Living Church of God does not advocate violence. Ratzmann was obviously unstable, and unstable people commit rash, and sometimes violent, acts.

was he sent by a pastor to kill someone.....NO.
did he go to my church..no



try again

[billvon 3,050]

>Meredith is quite truthful in saying that the Living Church
>of God does not advocate violence.

Neither does Islam.

>did he go to my church..no

He's a christian; you're a christian. If you were serious about stopping violence you would have stopped one of your fellow believers from killing half a dozen people. Simple.

Unless - could it be - that people who belong to one sort of religion often aren't aware of what every single other person in every sect and flavor of that religion are doing? Could it be that a few fucked up christians doesn't mean that all of christianity is fucked up?

[skydyvr 0]

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March 28, 2005
Seven members of a church were killed by Terry Ratzmann, age 44, in Brookfield, Wisconsin March 12. After shooting eleven people, Ratzmann fatally shot himself.

Nice seven month reach back in time -- I now see the huge similarity between Christian and Muslim violence.

Of course, Ratzmann was a disturbed lone wolf who didn't commit the killings in the name of almighty God or for the furtherance of Christianity, nor did he have zillions of Christian fanatics or a silent clergy behind him, but still, it's an otherwise great comparison.

. . =(_8^(1)

[bodypilot90 0]

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He's a christian

he is in a cult or was I assume they kicked him out, not a christian.

he was not told by a pastor to go out and kill. try again....

[skydyvr 0]

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he was not told by a pastor to go out and kill. try again....

Since Ratzmann didn't leave a note, or proclaim "God is Great" as he fired away, nobody really knows what drove him to the killings.

Maybe he was just mentally ill -- religion may have had nothing to do with it.

. . =(_8^(1)

[SudsyFist 0]

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What, exactly, does it do for you to vilify Islam as a whole for the actions of a fragment of their membership?

not vilifying anyone just stating facts.

OK, then, I have two questions:

1. What is the purpose of your stating the following (which alludes to a fact of some sort)?

   last 60 days name one non muslim group to walk in wearing a bomb and blow up everyone in the room?

2. How do you react to the following adjustment of what you said, which alludes to fact along the same lines?

   last 60 days name one non-religious group to walk in wearing a bomb and blow up everyone in the room?

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They need to police their own. The fact that clergy incited this means they should be held accountable.

I agree, but it's important to take into account that Islam is not as heirachical and structured as the Catholic Church, for example; who exactly the, "they," to which you are referring is, in my opinion, much more specific than Islam as a whole. And that's what I'm trying to explain.

[Slink2 0]

Let's see, if I were out to win a Holly war I might consider that.

Another question is whether political correctness will suppress any type of modern crusade which may ultimately lead to two major religions. Islam and Judaism. Christianity can be called the "soft" religion.

I'm not Christian so I really don't care what happens. But if Christianity had today's political correctness years ago it wouldn't be here today.

Islam and Judaism both have political states while Christianity does not. Why?

[bodypilot90 0]

since you forgot, it was in response to this...

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Funny how people, in general, seem to become violent when they feel repressed, backed into a corner, desperate, or otherwise provoked. It's great that we can pick some common trait among them (niggers, towelheads, kikes, etc.) to demonize and use to help spread prejudice and hatred.

Because, as we all know, prejudice and hatred are Good Things.

If it is just repression then why not back the free elections in iraq instead of pushing to pull out of Iraq and freeing SH to come back to power....

why were the iraqi's not doing this in SH's iraq. Are you saying they were free then?

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OK, then, I have two questions:

What is the purpose of your stating the following (which alludes to a fact of some sort)?
last 60 days name one non muslim group to walk in wearing a bomb and blow up everyone in the room?

The problem is Muslims clerics and their followers. You do not see mormons or methodists doing this.

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How do you react to the following adjustment of what you said, which alludes to fact along the same lines?
last 60 days name one non-religious group to walk in wearing a bomb and blow up everyone in the room?

it does not fit, it was not the masons or the DNC doing this. It was muslim clergy...








you assume it's because they are repressed. I say it's because they are trained by the the muslim clergy. That is my point

[Darius11 12]

It is amazing what ignorance will lead to.
I wish they would stop calling them selves Muslims.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Wopelao 0]

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>They need to police their own.

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Why don't you police your own? Why do you let people like Terry Ratzmann kill indiscriminately for religious reasons? Don't you care?

You are kidding right? Are you even aware about what is going on in the Catholic church right now? How they have lost the credibility and even members due to their lack of solving and cleaning their own house? If the Catholic church (Today, as in the present not 500 years ago) (hint: you may spin it if you want ) even tried to mock current islamic extremism, they would even loose more members. I don't think there is current comparison. Now, about other groups, don't know. Bottom line is that EVERY HOUSE has dirt. Mainstream teachings and preaching for violence is what really differentiate each one.

[SudsyFist 0]

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Funny how people, in general, seem to become violent when they feel repressed, backed into a corner, desperate, or otherwise provoked. It's great that we can pick some common trait among them (niggers, towelheads, kikes, etc.) to demonize and use to help spread prejudice and hatred.

Because, as we all know, prejudice and hatred are Good Things.

If it is just repression then why not back the free elections in iraq instead of pushing to pull out of Iraq and freeing SH to come back to power....

why were the iraqi's not doing this in SH's iraq. Are you saying they were free then?

First, note that in the text of mine which you bolded, I listed several potential factors.

Second, note that many stories are coming back with soldiers deployed to the area that describe support for the regime change, and support for the elections. So not everyone in Iraq is against it, and I'm sure that not everyone is polar/binary about it (strongly against or for), but there's rather a spectrum of complex feelings.

Among those feelings include the fact that a foreign, seemingly imperialistic nation has invaded their country, killed their neighbors and family members, and is attempting to setup a government that's more conducive to their influence not only on their soil, but across the whole area.

I bet some of those people take that as some serious provocation. And that's regardless of whether they were Muslim or gay hippies.

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OK, then, I have two questions:

What is the purpose of your stating the following (which alludes to a fact of some sort)?
last 60 days name one non muslim group to walk in wearing a bomb and blow up everyone in the room?

The problem is Muslims clerics and their followers. You do not see mormons or methodists doing this.

Excellent. We're making progress.

We also do not see Mormons or Methodists in the position of many of the people in the Middle East, now do we?

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How do you react to the following adjustment of what you said, which alludes to fact along the same lines?
last 60 days name one non-religious group to walk in wearing a bomb and blow up everyone in the room?

it does not fit, it was not the masons or the DNC doing this. It was muslim clergy...

"Muslim clergy" is just a superset of some of those who are directing (or otherwise influencing) terrorist activity, just as "religious leaders" are a superset even higher up the chain. That's my point.

It wasn't the Masjid Al-Ansar mosque here in San Diego making this happen. Nor was it the El Farouq mosque in Houston. So there's something much more specific than "Muslim clergy" involved here.

But if you stick to using such a broad categorization of the source of these attacks, then you're just as guilty of unfairly propagating hurtful stereotypes as one who would accuse religion, itself.

Dig deeper. There's so much more to this than what meets the casual eye.

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you assume it's because they are repressed. I say it's because they are trained by the the muslim clergy. That is my point

Wrong. I'm not assuming that it's because they're repressed. See above.

Further, I contest your argument that it's clergy who are training them. Perhaps in some cases, yes, but there are a number of training scenarios that occur out there, some of which are organized, whereas others of which are rather impromptu.

Are some Muslim clergy supporting the attacks? Without a doubt.

Does that mean that there's clearly violence inherent in Islam that's to blame? Not at all. For every story of Muslim violence, there are hundreds (or more) of charity. But those don't make Western news very often. Consider guns in the news. Islam just doesn't have a John Rich here to help us see more of the story.

The fact is that one of the most effective ways to influence people is to use religion. It's a direct channel to the deepest depths of the faithful's motivations. Use it. Twist it. Fuck with their heads. And they'll abandon even conscientiousness for you with interminable faith. Fuck, how this kind of manipulation pisses me off.

It's not just used in the Middle East. It's not just used in times of desperation or threat. You'll find it right in your own backyard.

I can't even count the number of church-going Christians I know who don't follow politics at all, yet went to the polls to cast their votes for Bush *both* times. And what was their reason? "He's God's man for the job."