freeflajankie 0 #51 November 16, 2005 QuoteAll your "hard work" won't cure cancer or beat a rare disease It's because of the hard work of doctors and scientists that we have "cures" to certain cancers and rare diseases. It's all good to believe in miracles, but don't say that hand work has nothing to do with it. I don't think all those people who is busting their ass to save lives really appreciate someone saying that it was a miracle and not their hard work that cured /saved him or her.Skydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks... And that's why I don't skydive anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #52 November 16, 2005 So much depends on how you define miracle. If you mean that something highly improbable happened to you, such as beating 14 million to 1 odds and winning the lottery - that's just a matter of probablilities working themselves out over a large population. That's a pretty liberal criteria for being a miracle, especially since it had to happen. If you think it is a miracle because it happened to you, then you concede that everytime the lottery is won, it is a miracle (at least for somebody). This kind of event is luck, but not a miracle. Just a matter of odds. The person that had the stroke, and lived near the hospital with the experimental treatment - hardly a miracle. Someone near that hospital was eventually going to have a stroke and be saved - just a matter of probabilities that it would happen - and a matter of luck as to who the specific individual would be. Just a matter of odds. When you are dealing with billions of people, and thousands of years (of recorded history), some seemingly unlikely things are going to happen at least occassionally. Just a matter of odds. Like the grilled cheese with Mary on it. After the human species has cooked up billions and billions of grilled cheese sandwiches, somewhere there's gonna be one that will carry a fascimile of Mary. Just a matter of odds. Just because something happens with low frequency doesn't make each occurence a miracle. If you believe the laws of physics are immutable, miracles - by definition - do not occur. Believing in miracles is believing that the laws of physics are occassionally suspended. By what method and for what intentions gets into a whole different debate. I'll leave it at that." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #53 November 16, 2005 I've had a ton of statistics training (some would call that 'tortue') in my last positions. One thing that's completely wrong to do is to ask "what were the odds of that happening?" AFTER the event already occurred. It really has no basis. But that's what people do when they relate their 'personal' stories of miracles. But if it makes people happy to think so, I have no issue with that, but sometimes it's just plain overdone. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #54 November 16, 2005 The odds thing makes me laugh too. My husband and I have the same birth date. We get asked quite a bit 'what are the odds of that'? Of course the answer is 1 in 366, but for some reason I get weird looks when I answer their question that way. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #55 November 16, 2005 QuoteThe odds thing makes me laugh too. My husband and I have the same birth date. We get asked quite a bit 'what are the odds of that'? Of course the answer is 1 in 366, but for some reason I get weird looks when I answer their question that way. What are the odds you two have the same birthday? 1 out of 1 = 100% Thus leading to the critical question - So What? (other than you can have big party that day) Inferential statistics is about "what if?"..... Your thing, after the fact, is about "what is." That's governed by other things. Nice answer though, strange that it would distress people. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #56 November 16, 2005 Yes, I do, but Billvon made a good point, a lot depends on perspective. I have a perspective that when my wife accidently drove over my 11 month old son (he had tire tracks across his sleeper) and the doctor couldn't find a bruise or a broken bone, or a damaged internal organ that a miracle happened. He did find a lot of indentations of small pebbles from the gravel we use to salt the roads in Alaska, but that is all. Today that "little boy" (6'1") is going through Special Forces training steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #57 November 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteAll your "hard work" won't cure cancer or beat a rare disease It's because of the hard work of doctors and scientists that we have "cures" to certain cancers and rare diseases. It's all good to believe in miracles, but don't say that hand work has nothing to do with it. I don't think all those people who is busting their ass to save lives really appreciate someone saying that it was a miracle and not their hard work that cured /saved him or her. Agree with the hard work part, but most of the 'cures' are really just vast improvements in early detection and diagnosis. jen Thought for the day . There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #58 November 16, 2005 QuoteToday that little boy is going through Special Forces training {cartoon bubble - it's night, see a little toddler in camo diapers, faceblack, tucked behind a tree looking at a map with a knife in his teeth giving hand signals to his squad} Thank him for his service. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #59 November 16, 2005 Well, maybe I should explain my little miracle happened in 1984. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #60 November 16, 2005 Yes, I absolutely belive in miracles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #61 November 16, 2005 Just because stuff happens that we cann't explain, doesn't mean that something supernatural happened. If you have an open mind..... keep it open, dont' close it with mythics. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #62 November 17, 2005 QuoteJust because stuff happens that we cann't explain, doesn't mean that something supernatural happened. If you have an open mind..... keep it open, dont' close it with mythics. . Well, all I know is that my hair is still kinda' freaky....but not in an afro-sheen way. So there. I believe!!!! linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RkyMtnHigh 0 #63 November 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteJust because stuff happens that we cann't explain, doesn't mean that something supernatural happened. If you have an open mind..... keep it open, dont' close it with mythics. . Well, all I know is that my hair is still kinda' freaky....but not in an afro-sheen way. So there. I believe!!!! linz so sorry to laugh linz. I feel your pain! I had a Jose Eber dude dealing with my hair last time and he was more for "show antics" than just doing his job...I walked in and out with the same hair I actually got the balls to call him last week and tell him he's a joke and that I won't come back nor will I recommend him. Now I'm looking for a new stylist. I was so proud that I had the courage to finally stand up for myself and tell someone when I feel that they conned me. Woo Hoo..YAY me _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #64 November 17, 2005 Yes, I most definitely believe in miracles. I have experienced some myself. One example: Approximately a year and a half ago I was straining some pasta. I was only wearing a pair of shorts and was barefoot. I accidentally spilled the boiling water down my legs and onto my feet. The pain was excrutiating. Immediately my skin blistered up and began to peel off my body. As my mother was grabbing for basins of cold water, I invoked Jesus to please intervene through the power of His most Sacred Heart. Before my eyes and the eyes of my mom, immediately the blisters were healed as was the peeling skin. There was no sign that I had ever been burned. No redness or pain. I knew at that moment I was given a miracle through the intercession of Jesus Christ. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #65 November 17, 2005 A thought on this topic. If people believe in God and that all things are possible with God, then why would it be so hard to believe in God-given miracles? _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SudsyFist 0 #66 November 17, 2005 I believe in miracles, yes. And among the countless which I've experienced, the vagina is the perhaps most mysterious and magical miracle of them all. From within its depths emerges the miracle of human life, eager to take its first breath of a new world. In its warm and welcoming embrace, we find the greatest sensual pleasures we are to know. And, like clockwork, it spews the most vile chunky bloodfest to which most near anyone but emergency personnel will ever bear witness, at which time its owner will dichotomously peak in both craving your penetrating affections as well as engaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. A miracle, indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #67 November 17, 2005 QuoteI believe in miracles, yes. And among the countless which I've experienced, the vagina is the perhaps most mysterious and magical miracle of them all. From within its depths emerges the miracle of human life, eager to take its first breath of a new world. In its warm and welcoming embrace, we find the greatest sensual pleasures we are to know. And, like clockwork, it spews the most vile chunky bloodfest to which most near anyone but emergency personnel will ever bear witness, at which time its owner will dichotomously peak in both craving your penetrating affections as well as engaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. A miracle, indeed. Amen! now thats the kind of sermon i can really 'get into' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveStMarys 0 #68 November 17, 2005 How do you explain when the good Dr says, "we've done all we can do, there's nothing more to do...and then the next week, the cancer is completely gone..for good." I DO NOT discount what DR's can do, I feel their knowledge is a God given gift. But they can only do so much. I have seen it happen my friend, both ends of the spectrum. I have seen a Dr heal and I have seen a miracle, when it happens, the second senerio, you know full well, that it is a miracle. Especially when a Dr can't explain it. BobbiA miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #69 November 17, 2005 I believe it was a miracle that I survived my first static-line jump and required PLF (backwards) on the T-10 in 1977.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #70 November 17, 2005 This morning someone brought in a bag of candy bars to work. What are the odds? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #71 November 17, 2005 Quoteengaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. Hey, I engage in "absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns" on a daily basis. But I do have to say that your writing is most eloquent, Sudsy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SudsyFist 0 #72 November 17, 2005 QuoteHey, I engage in "absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns" on a daily basis. But... but... but what about craving my penetrating affections? QuoteBut I do have to say that your writing is most eloquent, Sudsy. Awww, thank you, missie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #73 November 17, 2005 QuoteBut... but... but what about craving my penetrating affections? Hmm, I believe that would fall under the category of "absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 4 #74 November 17, 2005 QuoteAnd, like clockwork, it spews the most vile chunky bloodfest to which most near anyone but emergency personnel will ever bear witness, at which time its owner will dichotomously peak in both craving your penetrating affections as well as engaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. A miracle, indeed. What's a little blood between friends? Seriously. For thousands of years, men went through rituals where they would cut some part of the body and press it to the body of another man, similarly cut. But a woman's blood? Heaven forfend. Newsflash for the squeamish, it will not shrivel your dick, and it will most definitely prevent hair from growing on your palms. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #75 November 17, 2005 QuoteHow do you explain when the good Dr says, "we've done all we can do, there's nothing more to do...and then the next week, the cancer is completely gone..for good." I DO NOT discount what DR's can do, I feel their knowledge is a God given gift. But they can only do so much. I have seen it happen my friend, both ends of the spectrum. I have seen a Dr heal and I have seen a miracle, when it happens, the second senerio, you know full well, that it is a miracle. Especially when a Dr can't explain it. Bobbi What's your criteria for miracle? Anything you can't explain. Is every cancer patient that was thought to be saveable and then dies a failed miracle. Some cancer patients who were thought not to be saveable survive. Most don't. It's not a miracle just because you, or all, do not understand it. It's just a matter of odds. There was a time when the human species did not understand plagues, the recession of plagues, solar eclipses, and so on and so forth. With additional knowledge gained through the scientific method, we figure stuff out. Nothing miraculous about it." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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shropshire 0 #61 November 16, 2005 Just because stuff happens that we cann't explain, doesn't mean that something supernatural happened. If you have an open mind..... keep it open, dont' close it with mythics. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #62 November 17, 2005 QuoteJust because stuff happens that we cann't explain, doesn't mean that something supernatural happened. If you have an open mind..... keep it open, dont' close it with mythics. . Well, all I know is that my hair is still kinda' freaky....but not in an afro-sheen way. So there. I believe!!!! linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #63 November 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteJust because stuff happens that we cann't explain, doesn't mean that something supernatural happened. If you have an open mind..... keep it open, dont' close it with mythics. . Well, all I know is that my hair is still kinda' freaky....but not in an afro-sheen way. So there. I believe!!!! linz so sorry to laugh linz. I feel your pain! I had a Jose Eber dude dealing with my hair last time and he was more for "show antics" than just doing his job...I walked in and out with the same hair I actually got the balls to call him last week and tell him he's a joke and that I won't come back nor will I recommend him. Now I'm looking for a new stylist. I was so proud that I had the courage to finally stand up for myself and tell someone when I feel that they conned me. Woo Hoo..YAY me _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #64 November 17, 2005 Yes, I most definitely believe in miracles. I have experienced some myself. One example: Approximately a year and a half ago I was straining some pasta. I was only wearing a pair of shorts and was barefoot. I accidentally spilled the boiling water down my legs and onto my feet. The pain was excrutiating. Immediately my skin blistered up and began to peel off my body. As my mother was grabbing for basins of cold water, I invoked Jesus to please intervene through the power of His most Sacred Heart. Before my eyes and the eyes of my mom, immediately the blisters were healed as was the peeling skin. There was no sign that I had ever been burned. No redness or pain. I knew at that moment I was given a miracle through the intercession of Jesus Christ. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #65 November 17, 2005 A thought on this topic. If people believe in God and that all things are possible with God, then why would it be so hard to believe in God-given miracles? _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #66 November 17, 2005 I believe in miracles, yes. And among the countless which I've experienced, the vagina is the perhaps most mysterious and magical miracle of them all. From within its depths emerges the miracle of human life, eager to take its first breath of a new world. In its warm and welcoming embrace, we find the greatest sensual pleasures we are to know. And, like clockwork, it spews the most vile chunky bloodfest to which most near anyone but emergency personnel will ever bear witness, at which time its owner will dichotomously peak in both craving your penetrating affections as well as engaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. A miracle, indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #67 November 17, 2005 QuoteI believe in miracles, yes. And among the countless which I've experienced, the vagina is the perhaps most mysterious and magical miracle of them all. From within its depths emerges the miracle of human life, eager to take its first breath of a new world. In its warm and welcoming embrace, we find the greatest sensual pleasures we are to know. And, like clockwork, it spews the most vile chunky bloodfest to which most near anyone but emergency personnel will ever bear witness, at which time its owner will dichotomously peak in both craving your penetrating affections as well as engaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. A miracle, indeed. Amen! now thats the kind of sermon i can really 'get into' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveStMarys 0 #68 November 17, 2005 How do you explain when the good Dr says, "we've done all we can do, there's nothing more to do...and then the next week, the cancer is completely gone..for good." I DO NOT discount what DR's can do, I feel their knowledge is a God given gift. But they can only do so much. I have seen it happen my friend, both ends of the spectrum. I have seen a Dr heal and I have seen a miracle, when it happens, the second senerio, you know full well, that it is a miracle. Especially when a Dr can't explain it. BobbiA miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #69 November 17, 2005 I believe it was a miracle that I survived my first static-line jump and required PLF (backwards) on the T-10 in 1977.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #70 November 17, 2005 This morning someone brought in a bag of candy bars to work. What are the odds? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #71 November 17, 2005 Quoteengaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. Hey, I engage in "absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns" on a daily basis. But I do have to say that your writing is most eloquent, Sudsy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #72 November 17, 2005 QuoteHey, I engage in "absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns" on a daily basis. But... but... but what about craving my penetrating affections? QuoteBut I do have to say that your writing is most eloquent, Sudsy. Awww, thank you, missie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #73 November 17, 2005 QuoteBut... but... but what about craving my penetrating affections? Hmm, I believe that would fall under the category of "absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #74 November 17, 2005 QuoteAnd, like clockwork, it spews the most vile chunky bloodfest to which most near anyone but emergency personnel will ever bear witness, at which time its owner will dichotomously peak in both craving your penetrating affections as well as engaging in absolutely fucking sociopathic behaviour and thought patterns -- not every ten years, not annually, nay -- on a monthly goddamned basis. A miracle, indeed. What's a little blood between friends? Seriously. For thousands of years, men went through rituals where they would cut some part of the body and press it to the body of another man, similarly cut. But a woman's blood? Heaven forfend. Newsflash for the squeamish, it will not shrivel your dick, and it will most definitely prevent hair from growing on your palms. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #75 November 17, 2005 QuoteHow do you explain when the good Dr says, "we've done all we can do, there's nothing more to do...and then the next week, the cancer is completely gone..for good." I DO NOT discount what DR's can do, I feel their knowledge is a God given gift. But they can only do so much. I have seen it happen my friend, both ends of the spectrum. I have seen a Dr heal and I have seen a miracle, when it happens, the second senerio, you know full well, that it is a miracle. Especially when a Dr can't explain it. Bobbi What's your criteria for miracle? Anything you can't explain. Is every cancer patient that was thought to be saveable and then dies a failed miracle. Some cancer patients who were thought not to be saveable survive. Most don't. It's not a miracle just because you, or all, do not understand it. It's just a matter of odds. There was a time when the human species did not understand plagues, the recession of plagues, solar eclipses, and so on and so forth. With additional knowledge gained through the scientific method, we figure stuff out. Nothing miraculous about it." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
