Did the holocaust really happen?

[highfly 0]

According to this chap it wasnt as bad as we seem to think..


How do people like him manage to survive on this planet?

Sickening really to think that someone could be so blinkered and disbeliving of the plain truth that is out there.

I remember seeing all that footage from the holocaust when I was younger. Was it all just a fake?

One word...............


Wanker

www.myspace.com/durtymac

[billvon 2,989]

>According to this chap it wasnt as bad as we seem to think..

Another line from Sarah Silverman:
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So my niece called me the other week. She was talking about the holocaust. She said 'yeah, sixty million jews died.' I told her 'no, sweetie, that was six million.' She said 'does it matter?' I was like 'Uh, yeah. Sixty million would be unforgivable.'
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[shropshire 0]

Too many column inches dedicated to this tw@ already.... I'll 2nd the wanker bit.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[beowulf 1]

Ya know I really think this guy is nuts, but I don't really see how denying the Holocaust is a crime.

[Trent 0]

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Ya know I really think this guy is nuts, but I don't really see how denying the Holocaust is a crime.

I was gonna say... while this douche is clearly a piece of shit... how does his speech and beleifs constitute a crime? People bitch about us losing freedoms in the US, read the article to see how he was arrested this time.

The same people who defend that CU professor should stand up for this idiot as well.

Oh, hello again!

[Rebecca 0]

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Ya know I really think this guy is nuts, but I don't really see how denying the Holocaust is a crime.

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Stephen Smith of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust said Mr Irving's beliefs were more than just a matter of opinion.

He said, "Denial is not a matter of opinion, it is a politically loaded and vary dangerous assertion that leads directly to the rehabilitation of National Socialism and all the evil that it stood for."

I'm not sure how they criminalized it either, but it's fine with me that they did.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Gawain 0]

When I lived in Santa Clara, CA, my land lady was a holocaust survivor. I saw the serial number tatoo on her arm and everything. I didn't bother to read the link. People need to remember that it wasn't just 6 million jews under the boot of Hitler, there were another 5 million ethic minorities that were also rubbed out by the Nazis.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Channman 2]

>Hitler, there were another 5 million ethic minorities that were also rubbed out by the Nazis.

Well I thought it was a little more than 13 million combined, but after the first 7-8 million you do tend to loose count.

[Wopelao 0]

And that also pales in comparison to what the Japanese did to the Chinese. (which is largely forgotten).

[Steel 0]

that doesn't surprise me in the least. People tend to believe that which is convienient for them and ignore cold hard facts and I am not talking morons living on the street. I am talking college professors or moderators on this very same board. Its funny how they are imediate to attack Bush because of Iraq and yet completely ignore statements is complete agreement from Democrat senators, representatives, DNC chair people and even former President Clinton. need more proof watch this video http://media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/111505.wmv

.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[GTAVercetti 0]

Does Godwin's Law work in the OPPOSITE direction too?



Probably not.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Steel 0]

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Does Godwin's Law work in the OPPOSITE direction too?



Probably not.

yes it does but it tends not to be as extreme.
.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Does Godwin's Law work in the OPPOSITE direction too?



Probably not.

yes it does but it tends not to be as extreme.
.

Actually:

Godwin's law -
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

So no, it does not work when you invoke some OTHER topic while talking about Nazis, only the other way around.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Steel 0]

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Does Godwin's Law work in the OPPOSITE direction too?



Probably not.

yes it does but it tends not to be as extreme.
.

Actually:

Godwin's law -
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

So no, it does not work when you invoke some OTHER topic while talking about Nazis, only the other way around.

Yeah I found that a minute ago in a search. I thought that you meant by Godwin's law that the other side would be as full of themselves. Or more specifically that conservatives would outright lie or crucify somebody for the same act that the commended another for a hidden agenda. And I think that they do but not nearly as often.
.

.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[jenfly00 0]

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Ya know I really think this guy is nuts, but I don't really see how denying the Holocaust is a crime.

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Stephen Smith of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust said Mr Irving's beliefs were more than just a matter of opinion.

He said, "Denial is not a matter of opinion, it is a politically loaded and vary dangerous assertion that leads directly to the rehabilitation of National Socialism and all the evil that it stood for."

I'm not sure how they criminalized it either, but it's fine with me that they did.

Oh my! Pleae tell me that you don't mean that ...that it was an ill considered off the cuff response that you truly don't mean. That's some scary shit right there.

What color license plate should we give him?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[RhondaLea 4]

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Ya know I really think this guy is nuts, but I don't really see how denying the Holocaust is a crime.

It's a crime because Austria's legal system says it's a crime. Irving knew it, and he went anyway.

To hell with him. I really wish we could put all such numbskulls in an isolated place and let them work it out with each other, regardless of their particular pet delusion.

I'd pay to watch.

rl

Edited to add: Hate crimes are to some extent a matter of perspective. I can understand why the Austrians would consider Holocaust denial to be such a crime. For those of us in the US and even in parts of Europe, it was not our neighbors who were carted off to the ovens. A lot of the survivors came here, it's true, but we didn't know them before it all happened--when they were merely normal people living normal lives. I suspect that for those growing up in a culture where these kinds of stories are handed down by your grandparents, it has a much different feel to it than in a culture where none of it is particularly personal to the large part of the population.

My own experience is that the idea of the Holocaust was always horrifying, but it was never entirely real to me until I had a close relationship with a man whose parents were tattooed dating to their time in the camps. I didn't change anything I thought about it, but it certainly changed my feelings. Me, I'd dance at this guy's funeral--hoping the entire time that his death was as painful as possible.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Nightingale 0]

It's not a crime here. It is a crime in Austria, and I believe also in Germany and a few other countries that were dramatically affected by WWII. I don't think thinking or speaking about something like this should be a crime, but my country wasn't torn apart by Nazis, so, while I disagree, I do understand where they're coming from.

I'd love to make that guy sit down and watch "Night and Fog," though. I think it's a movie everyone should see... mostly made of real news footage of the holocaust. I don't think anyone who's seen it could deny that it happened. Even movies now can't fake corpses that well.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0780020227/002-1997515-9899261?v=glance#product-details

[Rebecca 0]

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Ya know I really think this guy is nuts, but I don't really see how denying the Holocaust is a crime.

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Stephen Smith of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust said Mr Irving's beliefs were more than just a matter of opinion.

He said, "Denial is not a matter of opinion, it is a politically loaded and vary dangerous assertion that leads directly to the rehabilitation of National Socialism and all the evil that it stood for."

I'm not sure how they criminalized it either, but it's fine with me that they did.

Oh my! Pleae tell me that you don't mean that ...that it was an ill considered off the cuff response that you truly don't mean. That's some scary shit right there.

What color license plate should we give him?

Huh? That quote was just one viewpoint, not mine, but yes, I do mean that I don't mind that Austria made it illegal to deny the Holocaust.

It's their country and the Holocaust is a major major stain on their history, one that shaped and defined their culture today, as well as Germany's, Poland's, and others'. They (for the great part, and in my experience) are deeply embarassed about it, and doing what they can to make reparations, including the creation of this law.

I don't have a problem with it being their law. I would probably have a big problem with it here, but that's a moot point anyway.

If they want to prosecute someone for publishing and stating that it "wasn't that bad" or "it didn't happen", it's their perogative.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[kelpdiver 2]

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And that also pales in comparison to what the Japanese did to the Chinese. (which is largely forgotten).

It doesn't pale at all. 6 million is 6 million, even if 30 million Chinese (and perhaps an close number of Russians) died. This isn't a contest anyone wants to participate in.

But no how matter bad it was, it's ridiculous that free speech is not permitted on these subjects in those countries. Or that the swastica, used long before the Nazis, is equally forbidden. We hear all these claims about how the US is 19th on the list for free speech rights, yet we seem to allow this sort of dissent.

[HydroGuy 0]

I know a guy in his mid eighties that flew whatever the equivelant of a DC3 is in the Army Air Corps. He dropped of paratroopers on rounds and in gliders on D-day, dropped the first supplies into Bastogne, yada yada, yada.

He had an overnight in an area the Nazis had just beat feet from, and was asked if he wanted to see "The Camps". It was a camp that had been found two days before. He talks of the bodies being packed like logs in front of the ovens. Down the road were some massive pits/pools filled with lye, with once again hundreds of bodies stacked like logs....apparently this was a lesser known way that bodies were disposed of.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[jenfly00 0]

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Huh? That quote was just one viewpoint, not mine, but yes, I do mean that I don't mind that Austria made it illegal to deny the Holocaust.

It's their country and the Holocaust is a major major stain on their history, one that shaped and defined their culture today, as well as Germany's, Poland's, and others'. They (for the great part, and in my experience) are deeply embarassed about it, and doing what they can to make reparations, including the creation of this law.

I don't have a problem with it being their law. I would probably have a big problem with it here, but that's a moot point anyway.

If they want to prosecute someone for publishing and stating that it "wasn't that bad" or "it didn't happen", it's their perogative.

I was just taken back (just for a moment) to hear an American say it was OK ...as long as it happens somewhere else.

Accepting that, why are we making such a big deal with the Nazi's killing six or so undesirables. It did, after all, happen somewhere else. It was their law and their perogative.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[RhondaLea 4]

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But no how matter bad it was, it's ridiculous that free speech is not permitted on these subjects in those countries.

I don't agree.

I think we've gotten so bound up in the idea that free speech means "I can say what I want, when I want, no matter how cruel, evil, offensive or false it happens to be," that we forget the society of the time did set limits.

I wonder what the founding fathers would say about our idea of free speech today?

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[waltappel 1]

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And that also pales in comparison to what the Japanese did to the Chinese. (which is largely forgotten).

Stalin made Hitler look like a really nice guy by comparison. Nobody seems to mourn his victims either. I think it is because as a group, Jews are some of the finest whiners in the world and talk about the holocaust like it happened last week. Not unlike many American blacks talk about slavery like it was last week.

Not that I think the holocaust (or slavery, for that matter) should be minimized--I think there is a lot of injustice to go around and that no one group should ever consider themselves superstars of the world of victimization.

If someone, many years after the fact, wants to claim a genocide or other massive case of inhumanity didn't happen, so what? It's the people that deny it while it is happening who are truly evil or uncaring and deserve all the negative attention the world can heap on them.

The same Jews who are still screaming about the holocaust seem to have hardly shed a tear about the Rwandan genocide even while it was happening. Whose attitude is more offensive--their's or someone who denies the holocaust happened?

The participants, victims, and witnesses of the holocaust are without a doubt either old or dead by this point. I think it a better idea to look at what is happening now and what will happen in the future.

Let the flames begin.

Walt

[highfly 0]

I dont think its a free speech thing at all.

Its the ignorance that one (maybe more) people could belive that documented history, facts whatever you want to call it is denied by soe one so blinkered in his views.

He obviously is an anti sematic and racist.

I wonder what would happen if his daughter bought home a Jewish Black man?????

Would he say hello or just not admit his existance?

www.myspace.com/durtymac

[windcatcher 0]

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Sickening really to think that someone could be so blinkered and disbeliving of the plain truth that is out there.

I agree

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...