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Ok, even though you called me a loud ass and a stupid ass, I'll remain from the name calling and just shut down everything you said with fact, ok?
The numbers "argument"...China's military figures depend on "draft" figures. When China says they'll have millions fighting, they count on drafting a good chunk of those millions from the civilian population. They are a "civilian military," meaning that everyone has compulsory service.
For starters, I'm in shape, far from lazy and not at all what I would consider wealthy (in monetary measurements anyways). China has seen unprecedented amounts of riots and protests in recent history. If the US fought China, or any country fought China for that matter, China would call on millions of citizen-soldiers, which probably somewhere around 80% would tell China to shove it. China is coming closer to the brink of implosion because the people are so sick of how the country is run. They don't support the state now, they won't support it in war, especially when it means dying for a cause they hate (i.e. the state). Oh, and marching 2 million soldiers at the US military who have shot a gun maybe twice in their life...yeah, that will bode well for their life expectancy.
China stands 0% chance of attacking the US w/ the exception of nukes. Yes they can nuke our western coast, no they do not have the means to land an invasion force or even launch a conventional air attack.
Their equipment is vastly substandard to US equipment, in addition to our superiority in training and ability. Their only means of transporting troops are with boats (don't have too many cargo aircraft, especially for troop airdrop). Boats would be destroyed by the US military before China could even get them half way to Taiwan. And don't even try to argue that the Chinese Air Force could protect them...what a joke.
Ah yes, the age old game that accurately depicts world events with every move!
See above regarding them destroying our military. China vastly depends on US economic trade. Thus far in 2005, we've imported $176,139,000,000 from China (projected to be around $200 billion). Are you actually saying that China wouldn't mind losing that kind of money in trade revenue? It would be a tremendous blow to China's economy if it were to lose US trade. In essence, they'd be completely screwed.
Bottom line...yes we'd take loses fighting China, no they would be nothing even remotely close to "destroyed US military." They may put up more of a fight than some other countries, but we're talking about The White Sox playing a T-ball team of 5 yr olds. They're out-gunned, out-trained, out-skilled...oh, and the T-ball team has 500 players...we'll give the White Sox 7 (take away the Short Stop and Center Fielder for shits and giggles). Yep, numbers will matter a whole lot in that one.
Quotechina total population =1.3 billion
u.s. total population = 300 million
china military total number of sodiers = 2.5 million
china births since the start of 2005 = 15 million
The numbers "argument"...China's military figures depend on "draft" figures. When China says they'll have millions fighting, they count on drafting a good chunk of those millions from the civilian population. They are a "civilian military," meaning that everyone has compulsory service.
Quotethier civillans are hard working, determined and poor.
U.S. civllians are fat lazy and wealthy.
For starters, I'm in shape, far from lazy and not at all what I would consider wealthy (in monetary measurements anyways). China has seen unprecedented amounts of riots and protests in recent history. If the US fought China, or any country fought China for that matter, China would call on millions of citizen-soldiers, which probably somewhere around 80% would tell China to shove it. China is coming closer to the brink of implosion because the people are so sick of how the country is run. They don't support the state now, they won't support it in war, especially when it means dying for a cause they hate (i.e. the state). Oh, and marching 2 million soldiers at the US military who have shot a gun maybe twice in their life...yeah, that will bode well for their life expectancy.
Quote
the chinese would storm over the U.S. in a couple of weeks.
China stands 0% chance of attacking the US w/ the exception of nukes. Yes they can nuke our western coast, no they do not have the means to land an invasion force or even launch a conventional air attack.
Their equipment is vastly substandard to US equipment, in addition to our superiority in training and ability. Their only means of transporting troops are with boats (don't have too many cargo aircraft, especially for troop airdrop). Boats would be destroyed by the US military before China could even get them half way to Taiwan. And don't even try to argue that the Chinese Air Force could protect them...what a joke.
QuoteHave you ever played RISK?
Ah yes, the age old game that accurately depicts world events with every move!
Quoteif the u.s. was to attack china it would be suicide, they would not only destroy your (loud ass, stupid ass) military, but they would also fuck over your econemy with a simple phone call or two.
See above regarding them destroying our military. China vastly depends on US economic trade. Thus far in 2005, we've imported $176,139,000,000 from China (projected to be around $200 billion). Are you actually saying that China wouldn't mind losing that kind of money in trade revenue? It would be a tremendous blow to China's economy if it were to lose US trade. In essence, they'd be completely screwed.
Bottom line...yes we'd take loses fighting China, no they would be nothing even remotely close to "destroyed US military." They may put up more of a fight than some other countries, but we're talking about The White Sox playing a T-ball team of 5 yr olds. They're out-gunned, out-trained, out-skilled...oh, and the T-ball team has 500 players...we'll give the White Sox 7 (take away the Short Stop and Center Fielder for shits and giggles). Yep, numbers will matter a whole lot in that one.
QuoteThat being said, I just don't see the motivation for a war with China.
Of course, there isn't motivation right now for a war with China. You are correct, we have a ton invested in them, why would we want to fuck that over? We don't, but war with China is a growing possibility because of what they are doing, not what we're doing. If they become more aggressive and start trying to take over territories, for example, then we would have to stop them not only to help those who can't help themselves, but to stop China from expanding into a world hegemon (self survival).
434 2
Why should China start to move?
Superpower states need controll over markeds and energy suplies! So basicly you mean ...........? it is already happening?
?
Superpower states need controll over markeds and energy suplies! So basicly you mean ...........? it is already happening?
?
Gawain 0
Quotethe chinese would storm over the U.S. in a couple of weeks.
if the u.s. was to attack china it would be suicide, they would not only destroy your (loud ass, stupid ass) military,
Taking the economic side out of it. The only limitation the US really has is ammo. A US soldier or Marine has at least a 10+:1 kill ratio. China's navy is a non-starter next to ours. They also do not have the airlift capacity the US has.
The US military has always trained itself in large confrontations based on "cold war" scenarios. The Warsaw Pact would have kept sending wave after wave against NATO. It's not much different in terms of doctrine.
During the first Persian Gulf war, the Iraqi army outnumbered the US forces by about 4 to 1.
Indeed, it's a matter of numbers alright, we'd simply run out of ammunition. It wouldn't be walk in the park for anyone. Adding in the "soft" factors such as population morale, will to fight, etc., is a whole different ball of wax which I'm not in the mood to discuss, but it's certainly a two-way street.
On a more contained geographic environment, say Korea, it's anyone's guess. If there's another conflict in eastern Asia, it will be in Korea, that's my guess.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Yes, it's already happening. China is already venturing down a road to possible conflict w/ the US...I say possible b/c it might implode before reaching that point, or back down.
kallend 2,106
The US outspends the next 8 nations combined on "defense" (a major misnomer, when we mostly use it for offense). No country would win a conventional war with the US.
Which is why the US gets itself suckered into the quagmire of unconventional war. Something our fearless leaders in Washington don't seem to have realized yet.
Which is why the US gets itself suckered into the quagmire of unconventional war. Something our fearless leaders in Washington don't seem to have realized yet.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Quote
The US outspends the next 8 nations combined on "defense" (a major misnomer, when we mostly use it for offense). No country would win a conventional war with the US.
Which is why the US gets itself suckered into the quagmire of unconventional war. Something our fearless leaders in Washington don't seem to have realized yet.
I doubt any country would engage the US in a nuclear war either. China doesn't even have a missille reliable enough to deliver a nuclear warhead effectively.
captain1 0
I am just suggesting that maybe you are missing the bigger picture. What you are saying about Japan has already happened in the 1980's.
rhys 0
we are talking about the u.s. attacking china, they wouldn't need to ship soldiers. if they were defending. and i think they wouldn't have too much trouble recruting. .5% of thier population is 6.5 million people. i'm sure they could round them up in an instant.
the u.s. is only a small amount of thier export. the rest of the world buys thier stuff also. they could easily do without the u.s. market.
you may be fit but i bet you are loud.
you didn't reply to the fact that the u.s. military is 40% short on its recruits?
40% is alot.
the u.s. is only a small amount of thier export. the rest of the world buys thier stuff also. they could easily do without the u.s. market.
you may be fit but i bet you are loud.
you didn't reply to the fact that the u.s. military is 40% short on its recruits?
40% is alot.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
skydyvr 0
Quotewe are talking about the u.s. attacking china, they wouldn't need to ship soldiers.
Dude, you are a laugh a minute.
In a previous post, you wrote "the chinese would storm over the U.S. in a couple of weeks", which completely contradicts your comment above. If you're going to put forth absurd assertions, at least stay consistent.
Ever heard the old saying "Once you're in a hole, stop digging"?
. . =(_8^(1)
Gawain 0
Quoteyou didn't reply to the fact that the u.s. military is 40% short on its recruits?
40% is alot.
40% is also an incorrect figure. All branches except for Active Duty Army are exceeding goals, and even then, the Army is exceeding re-enlistment goals for active duty soldiers.
In October alone, all branches exceeded goals.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Slink2 0
Aaahhh Japan! The last great nation of the world. Still retains it's ethnic culture and heritage, while remaining hard working and disciplined. That is until the Western cess pool of "multiculturalism" closes in. Japan should rearm it's military and tell the U.S. to #$%# off, revive a sense of nationalism, before it becomes too late. Any Iron Chef fans out there?
Quote
I doubt any country would engage the US in a nuclear war either. China doesn't even have a missille reliable enough to deliver a nuclear warhead effectively.
If their missiles can hit the intended state, it's accurate enough to fuck us up. The fallout would slowly fullfill MAD.
They wouldn't wait for us to strike first, since we probably could take out a number of their launch platforms.
QuoteI never said I think that going to war with Japan is a good idea. I DON'T!!!
Judging from the way you wrote your original post, it was hard, at least for me, to see that, especially after you underline it with "I'm serious." Nice to see you don't really think like that. Sad thing is there are people that do, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people in power do as well.
Like most others, I think we'd go to war with China first because we're ideologically opposed to their system of government. And then also, in light of how chummy we see Bush and Koizumi are on the president's most recent visit, it's hard for me to imagine that we'd go to war with Japan anytime soon. Not to mention that Japan is our strategic proxy and our lackey in Asia. And one more -- they have a weak military by design and are not a threat to us at all in that respect.
But who knows, maybe your out-of-the-box thinking is on point and you're seeing something we don't, history is full of surprises and who could rule it out -- we were pretty cool with them up until Pearl Harbor before our last conflict with them.
Regarding China vs. USA in a war, yes they outnumber us man-to-man, but we have the technology. If that remains equal, I think the war would be over before a Chinese soldier comes close to setting foot on our soil.
Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.
Gawain 0
QuoteIf their missiles can hit the intended state, it's accurate enough to fuck us up. The fallout would slowly fullfill MAD.
They wouldn't wait for us to strike first, since we probably could take out a number of their launch platforms.
That is what the B2 and Trident Ballistic Submarines are for. The US doctrine on the use of nuclear weapons is essentially: Reserves the right to a first strike.
Of course, that does nothing to deter MAD either...
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Only to those who read that into my post. I certainly did not say that I advocate war with Japan. I don't. I think it's an incredibly stupid and wrong idea.
Maybe some would think, "Fuck 3 bases--let's bomb the shit out of Japan so we can build as many as we want!"
I just don't see a war with China happening, though. US companies have invested far too much money in Japan. They won't want to risk their investments and have enough clout with the government to make their voices heard.
Personally, I think being so heavily invested in China is a really bad idea. It points to a major flaw in the way the powerful in the US think, and that is that they will hop in bed with anyone, no matter how despicable, if there is enough money in it.
That being said, I just don't see the motivation for a war with China.
Walt
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