Full House to vote on Troop withdrawal resolution - TONIGHT

[panzwami 0]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051118/D8DV51A80.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - House Republicans, seeing an opportunity, maneuvered for a quick vote and swift rejection Friday of a Democratic lawmaker's call for an immediate troop withdrawal from Iraq.

"We want to make sure that we support our troops that are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill. "We will not retreat."

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of California had no immediate reaction to the idea of a quick vote before Congress leaves Washington for two weeks.

GOP leaders decided to act little more than 24 hours after Rep. John Murtha, a hawkish Democrat with close ties to the military, said the time had come to pull out the troops.

By forcing the issue to a vote, Republicans placed many Democrats in a politically unappealing position - whether to side with Murtha and expose themselves to attacks from the White House and congressional Republicans, or whether to oppose him and risk angering the voters that polls show want an end to the conflict.

Murtha offered a resolution that would force the president to withdraw the nearly 160,000 troops in Iraq "at the earliest practicable date." It would establish a quick-reaction force and a nearby presence of Marines in the region.

House Republicans planned to put to a vote - and reject - their own resolution that simply says: "It is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately."

Most Republicans oppose Murtha's plan, and some Democrats also have been reluctant to back his position.

Some members of the House and Senate, looking ahead to off-year elections next November, are publicly worrying about a quagmire in Iraq. They have been staking out new positions on a war that has grown increasingly unpopular with the American public, resulted in more than 2,000 U.S. military deaths and cost more than $200 billion.

The House move comes just days after the GOP-controlled Senate defeated a Democratic push for Bush to lay out a timetable for withdrawal. Spotlighting questions from both parties about the war, though, the chamber then approved a statement that 2006 should be a significant year in which conditions are created for the phased withdrawal of U.S. forces.

"Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency," Murtha said Thursday. "They are united against U.S. forces and we have become a catalyst for violence. The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion."

A day after his comments, a U.S. field commander in Iraq countered the position of the congressman who usually backs the Pentagon.

"Here on the ground, our job is not done," said Col. James Brown, commander of the 56th Brigade Combat Team, when asked about Murtha's comments during a weekly briefing that American field commanders give to Pentagon reporters.

Speaking from a U.S. logistics base at Balad, north of Baghdad, two days before his scheduled return to Texas, Brown said: "We have to finish the job that we began here. It's important for the security of this nation."

Republicans chastised Murtha for advocating what they called a strategy of surrender and abandonment. Democrats defended him as a patriot, even as many declined to back his view.

"I won't stand for the swift-boating of Jack Murtha," said Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee in 2004. Also a Vietnam veteran, Kerry was dogged during the campaign by a group called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth who challenged his war record.

"There is no sterner stuff than the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha's character and conscience," Kerry said.

For his part, Kerry has proposed a phased exit from Iraq, starting with the withdrawal of 20,000 troops after December elections in Iraq. A Kerry spokesman said "he has his own plan" when asked if Kerry agreed with immediate withdrawal.

As a Vietnam veteran and top Democrat on the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, Murtha carries more credibility with his colleagues on the issue than a number of other Democrats who have opposed the war from the start.

Bush administration officials have been cautious in responding to him.

"We have nothing but respect for Congressman Murtha's service to his country," White House communications director Nicolle Wallace told NBC's "Today" show Friday. "And I think he spoke from the heart yesterday. We happen to have a real serious policy disagreement with him."

Rep. Sam Johnson, R-Texas, a 29-year Air Force veteran who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam for nearly seven years, called Murtha's position unconscionable and irresponsible. "We've got to support our troops to the hilt and see this mission through," he said.

With a Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts, Murtha retired from the Marine Corps reserves as a colonel in 1990 after 37 years as a Marine, only a few years longer than he's been in Congress. Elected in 1974, Murtha has become known as an authority on national security whose advice was sought out by Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

[rushmc 23]

OK, I will make a prediction. 1 of 2 things will happen.

1) The Dems will walk out in protest calling it a blatant political maneuver (which should be easy for them to recognize.....sorry, I couldn't help myself) or
2) They will (for the most part) vote to stay.

What do you all think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

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OK, I will make a prediction. 1 of 2 things will happen.

1) The Dems will walk out in protest calling it a blatant political maneuver (which should be easy for them to recognize.....sorry, I couldn't help myself) or
2) They will (for the most part) vote to stay.

What do you all think?

I think some will vote for it before they vote against it. Or is it vote against it before they vote for it? I forget.

[rushmc 23]

Bbbbbwwwwwhhhaaaaa


Ooohhhh......Thanks, I needed that!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BillyVance 34]

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OK, I will make a prediction. 1 of 2 things will happen.

1) The Dems will walk out in protest calling it a blatant political maneuver (which should be easy for them to recognize.....sorry, I couldn't help myself) or
2) They will (for the most part) vote to stay.

What do you all think?

I think some will vote for it before they vote against it. Or is it vote against it before they vote for it? I forget.

Kind of a damned if they do and damned if they don't kind of thing?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[billvon 3,078]

And US soldiers are dying while the senate plays political games. Good for the GOP! Avoid talking about how to end the war with the best possible outcome and the least loss of life - pull a political stunt to shut people up.

[Channman 2]

The Dems have called for a vote for a US retreat from Iraq.

Our security is in good hands, sleep soundly, the Dems are safe guarding our nation.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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And US soldiers are dying while the senate plays political games. Good for the GOP! Avoid talking about how to end the war with the best possible outcome and the least loss of life - pull a political stunt to shut people up.

Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them.

[billvon 3,078]

>Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL
>and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them.

You're right! It makes much more sense to stay there forever, and give OBL and Zarqawi their Great Satan to fight. But what the hell. No one in Congress or the White House is going to get blown up by an IED, so who really cares how many soldiers die? They're frangible.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL
>and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them.

You're right! It makes much more sense to stay there forever, and give OBL and Zarqawi their Great Satan to fight. But what the hell. No one in Congress or the White House is going to get blown up by an IED, so who really cares how many soldiers die? They're frangible.

Who ever suggested we stay there forever?
Can't you see one of the main reasons the Iraqi's are hesitant to get involved is because they are afraid of the US pullout and the aftermath of it? Don't you understand that one of the reasons SH is saying he is still the President of Iraq is meant to instill fear into the the Iraqi people that if the US pulls out, he will return?

They have every reason to fear this. We didn't finish the job during Gulf War 1. We promised to help and then we abandoned them during the Clinton Admin. They see how we ran from Vietnam and now Democrats want us to set a time table for abandoning them again. Do you honestly think thats a good strategy?

Every Iraqi citizen is in fear of commiting to fight against the terrorists and SH's Baathist party because of the fear of a US pullout. They are afraid for their families and children. Do you really not understand the terrorists goals?


"We were not strong enough to drive out a half-million American troops, but that wasn't our aim. Our intention was to break the will of the American government to continue the war."--North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap, in a 1990 interview with historian Stanley Karnow.

[kallend 2,108]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.", A. Einstein.


It IS time for a new approach.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

And I agree that we should say good for the GOP.
Time for the Dems to quit playing politics with our soldiers lives

They can now go on record.

....and it is easy, in cases like this, when people with principled ideas get a back bone and force those that don't to stand on a position and not retoric

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

What do you base your staying forever line on?

We have never done that (and stayed in control) but you think we will do it now?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[matthewcline 0]

On NBC news tonight they showed there was some pretty heated exchanges on the hill.

Last week the Pentagon briefed both parties on it's planned troop reduction and then with draw(quoted from the news story).

If both parties happened to be in on the briefing then why the resolution this week?

Is it as I feel, all political grandstanding with party control ratios in the House and Senate the real goal?

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.", A. Einstein.


It IS time for a new approach.

And there is going to be changes made. The Iraqi's will vote for a permanent government next month. After that there will be more pressure on the new govt. to take greater responsibility for their own internal security. My guess and hope is there will be a draw down of US troops sometime next year.

[rushmc 23]

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"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.", A. Einstein.


It IS time for a new approach.

I will be shaking waiting to see what your new approach is

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Quote

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.", A. Einstein.


It IS time for a new approach.

I will be shaking waiting to see what your new approach is

Exactly. Can anyone show me the alternative plan by the Dems? Oh, I know....just run away and leave the Iraqi's to fight it out among themselves. Heck with it when OBL, Zarqawi and the Baathists take over and start the wholesale slaughter of Iraqi's who supported Democracy. Lets cut and run again. Thats the Democrats Plan.

[rushmc 23]

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"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.", A. Einstein.


It IS time for a new approach.

I will be shaking waiting to see what your new approach is

Exactly. Can anyone show me the alternative plan by the Dems? Oh, I know....just run away and leave the Iraqi's to fight it out among themselves. Heck with it when OBL, Zarqawi and the Baathists take over and start the wholesale slaughter of Iraqi's who supported Democracy. Lets cut and run again. Thats the Democrats Plan.

You know what I think is sad?

I believe they know that we are doing the right thing and that running would be a disaster. But......they also have learned that Bush won't back down so they think they can push this cause they don't think anyone will get hurt because we will not leave. Now, with that in place, they can play to the extreem lefies and keep the money coming.

No facts, just what I believe.

Cause in the end I don't think they are dumb..........they only care about power

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[n23x 0]

The "at least we're doing something" retort isn't a good response when that something has an un-achievable goal, and is responsible for an continually increasing loss of life and deficit.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[jenfly00 0]

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And US soldiers are dying while the senate plays political games. Good for the GOP! Avoid talking about how to end the war with the best possible outcome and the least loss of life - pull a political stunt to shut people up.

Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them.

OK hotshot. You and the other flag wavers got us into this. What was your end game plan for getting us out?

You did have a plan, didn't you??? If not, it surely is time to come up with one, don't you think?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[rickjump1 0]

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"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.", A. Einstein.


It IS time for a new approach.

I will be shaking waiting to see what your new approach is

Exactly. Can anyone show me the alternative plan by the Dems? Oh, I know....just run away and leave the Iraqi's to fight it out among themselves. Heck with it when OBL, Zarqawi and the Baathists take over and start the wholesale slaughter of Iraqi's who supported Democracy. Lets cut and run again. Thats the Democrats Plan.

That's been our method of operation. The world knows we have no backbone for a prolonged war; we will betray anyone. Remember the the North Vietnamese waiting for a divided America to go home? Stay the course, and start blowing the fuck out of any outside influence to include Iran and Syria. Arguing over WMD should be over. For fucks sake, didn't we supply Sadam with gas. Didn't he shoot a missile into Tel Aviv? We are in Iraq. Back the troops. Stay the course for once.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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And US soldiers are dying while the senate plays political games. Good for the GOP! Avoid talking about how to end the war with the best possible outcome and the least loss of life - pull a political stunt to shut people up.

Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them.

OK hotshot. You and the other flag wavers got us into this. What was your end game plan for getting us out?

You did have a plan, didn't you??? If not, it surely is time to come up with one, don't you think?

OK sweet cheeks. How about this. We continue to train Iraqi security forces until they can defend their country. Support elections so the Iraqis can self-govern. Start drawing down out troops slowly as Iraqi forces grow.

Oh, and it wasn't flag wavers like me that got us into the war. It was a concensus within the government. Democrats and Republicans. Unless you believe the line of bullshit being propogandized by the Dems. But certainly you are intelligent enough to see thru it, right?

[jenfly00 0]

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And US soldiers are dying while the senate plays political games. Good for the GOP! Avoid talking about how to end the war with the best possible outcome and the least loss of life - pull a political stunt to shut people up.

Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them.

OK hotshot. You and the other flag wavers got us into this. What was your end game plan for getting us out?

You did have a plan, didn't you??? If not, it surely is time to come up with one, don't you think?

OK sweet cheeks. How about this. We continue to train Iraqi security forces until they can defend their country. Support elections so the Iraqis can self-govern. Start drawing down out troops slowly as Iraqi forces grow.

Oh, and it wasn't flag wavers like me that got us into the war. It was a concensus within the government. Democrats and Republicans. Unless you believe the line of bullshit being propogandized by the Dems. But certainly you are intelligent enough to see thru it, right?

It was those that used fear and hate ( the new patriots, the flag wavers ...you) to convince the citizens that we had to do this or be destroyed. OK, the public bought it.

I agree that now that you have 'US' in this mess, an immediate pullout would be disasterous so I'm kinda with you on what you propose. I see no good end for it all, however and doubt we will be out years from now.

BTW, my cheeks are sweet, indeed (my best feature), but I guarantee you'll never see them.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Gravitymaster 0]

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It was those that used fear and hate ( the new patriots, the flag wavers ...you) to convince the citizens that we had to do this or be destroyed. OK, the public bought it.

Oh, so now I use fear and hate, to convice citizens we had to do this or be destoyed?

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I agree that now that you have 'US' in this mess, an immediate pullout would be disasterous so I'm kinda with you on what you propose. I see no good end for it all, however and doubt we will be out years from now.

Well, I'm glad to see you think I have so much power. I'm still waiting to see the Dems "alternative" plan. Is it being kept a secret for some reason?

I wouldn't get to traumatized by how long we are oing to be in Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/

The Dems knew this was going to be released soon and now they can try to claim credit for forcing it. Pretty cheezy if you ask me. Just shows they will go to no end to politicize the war and endanger our troops.

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BTW, my cheeks are sweet, indeed (my best feature), but I guarantee you'll never see them.

I'm sure they are but I got a pretty nice pair around here that I'm kinda fond of and I'm not looking.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Rejected 403-3. Who wudda thunk?

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/19/D8DVBPO85.html