Radical Islam Opinion

[bertusgeert 1]

I never post in here - I hope this is not a repost.

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ClipMediaID=60227&ak=null

In a day and age where you can't trust much I can only hope that I'm not lied to about the translation.

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[Gawain 0]

But, but...but...Islam is a religion of peace and harmony...

I find it funny how he compares the Jews to AIDS, spreading across the world, when it's Islam which "rules the roost" in terms of numbers, what is it? 1.5 Billion kneeling to the east five times a day?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Michele 1]

Hrm. That's interesting...sad, and not unusual, but the first time I've seen nearly 5 minutes of it. The jews are vilified yet again, targeted yet again. I haven't other comments (at this time) except perhaps the guy in Austria would like this.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[waltappel 1]

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I never post in here - I hope this is not a repost.

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ClipMediaID=60227&ak=null

In a day and age where you can't trust much I can only hope that I'm not lied to about the translation.

That's pretty funny. A Muslim calling a Jew bad names is a clear case of a pot calling the kettle black. In a dipshit contest it would be a very close race indeed.

The really funny part is that the guy talking that crap is doing it with a straight face and the people in the audience are keeping a straight face too. Either they are all in on the joke or they're all braindead. Nobody is going to accuse anyone in that crowd of being a world-class independent thinker.

I would not be surprised to see video of some Jew guy talking the same sort of BS about Muslims. After all, they are the "chosen people".

Walt

[SudsyFist 0]

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But, but...but...Islam is a religion of peace and harmony...

But, but...but...a single radical individual is representative of the entire mindset of a whole group...

[Gawain 0]

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But, but...but...Islam is a religion of peace and harmony...

But, but...but...a single radical individual is representative of the entire mindset of a whole group...

Come on man, my tongue was in my cheek...to a point anyway.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Michele 1]

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A Muslim calling a Jew bad names is a clear case of a pot calling the kettle black. In a dipshit contest it would be a very close race indeed.

(snip)

I would not be surprised to see video of some Jew guy talking the same sort of BS about Muslims. After all, they are the "chosen people".

Um, maybe I'm reading this wrong...but are you an antisemite? If so, I'd be curious as to why. If not, forgive me for thinking so from your post(s).

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[waltappel 1]

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A Muslim calling a Jew bad names is a clear case of a pot calling the kettle black. In a dipshit contest it would be a very close race indeed.

(snip)

I would not be surprised to see video of some Jew guy talking the same sort of BS about Muslims. After all, they are the "chosen people".

Um, maybe I'm reading this wrong...but are you an antisemite? If so, I'd be curious as to why. If not, forgive me for thinking so from your post(s).

Ciels-
Michele

Anti-semite? Not so much that as anti-religion in general. Throughout history, people have rationalized all sorts of vile acts via their religion.

I'd much rather see people be absolutely truthful about why they are doing evil things instead of coming out with bullshit excuses.

People in that part of the world hate each other because of hundreds or even thousands of years of animosity that saturates the cultures they are raised in. Add to that events over the past 100 or so years fueling the fire and you have a volatile mix.

I think if the religious veneer were stripped away, they would seem like a bunch of retarded three year olds fighting over toys in a sandbox.

I don't think either side is better than the other because I don't buy into their basic beliefs that they are right because some made-up spook in the sky says so.

"This land is ours because it is HOLY!!!"

Let's be real. The land is historically significant to a great many people and should be treated with respect by all, not fought over like a mere piece of property.

The whole concept of people "owning" land is kind of a joke anyway. We are all but temporary stewards and should behave accordingly and responsibly.

"Allah Akbar!!!" [as the explosive is detonated]

The only thing that's more retarded than that is that the people detonating the explosive are considered heroes.

Jews are not a virus. Neither are radical Muslims. They are people who will not or cannot get along with each other.

Does all that make me anti-semetic? Decide for yourself.

edited to add:
If you want me to add my thoughts on Christians, let me know, but I think you already get my general drift.

Also, please do not ever apologize to me for misinterpreting anything I post. Reaching common understanding is a beautiful thing and the process needs no apology.

Walt

[Michele 1]

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please do not ever apologize to me for misinterpreting anything I post. Reaching common understanding is a beautiful thing and the process needs no apology.

Good deal. And thanks for understanding where I'm coming from.

As to the fighting, I wish it would stop. As to why it's being fought over, it's less the religious aspect from the Jewish perspective but rather a guarantee that the Holocaust will never happen again. Can't speak to the Muslim perspective of the Jews; none of the muslims I've asked has ever had a clear answer (and no, I don't mean an answer I agree with; just one which is cogent and based in reality). While there are some who scream "It's the HOLY Land, and it's OURS!!!" mostly I don't think it's considered in that respect by the majority of those in Israel and elsewhere.

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People in that part of the world hate each other because of hundreds or even thousands of years of animosity that saturates the cultures they are raised in. Add to that events over the past 100 or so years fueling the fire and you have a volatile mix.

Agreed wholeheartedly. So....what to do about it? How to change the almost cellular hatred that is expressed by those who hate the Jews? How to show them that under the skin, all is the same; we all bleed red, we all worry about the next meal getting to the table whether it's kosher or not, and we all worry about how to clothe ourselves, be it leiderhosen or jeans. How to we bring people who are so volitile back to the basics of reality?

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The land is historically significant to a great many people and should be treated with respect by all, not fought over like a mere piece of property.

The whole concept of people "owning" land is kind of a joke anyway. We are all but temporary stewards and should behave accordingly and responsibly.

Again, agreed.

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Anti-semite? Not so much that as anti-religion in general. Throughout history, people have rationalized all sorts of vile acts via their religion.

All the way back throughout the ages. It didn't start with judaism, nor with islam. it started waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when the Bear was worshipped, and clans fought each other because their clan totems were fighting, and/or needed to hunt in a new area (the totems, that is...).

I am not terribly fond of organized religion for that reason. I also feel that religion serves a purpose - and it's not fighting - of allowing great groups of people to reach past the apparent and into the numinous. I am pretty spiritual, but I'll see the inside of a church maybe 4 times a year - and that is likely to be spread between synagogue and a catholic church when I go with friends.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[waltappel 1]

Ok, I will admit here that I have no understanding whatsoever why Jews continue to scream so much about the Holocaust instead of focusing on the present. Jews are not the only people to have been victimized. The Holocaust is not even close to being the biggest in numbers of people killed at the hands of a government led by a psychopath.

It annoys me when I hear Jews harping about the Holocaust. Sometimes it really annoys the piss out of me. I think in general if people want to stop being victims, then they should quit acting like victims. I don't care what their religion or ethnicity is.

Walt

[Michele 1]

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Ok, I will admit here that I have no understanding whatsoever why Jews continue to scream so much about the Holocaust instead of focusing on the present. Jews are not the only people to have been victimized. The Holocaust is not even close to being the biggest in numbers of people killed at the hands of a government led by a psychopath.

It annoys me when I hear Jews harping about the Holocaust. Sometimes it really annoys the piss out of me. I think in general if people want to stop being victims, then they should quit acting like victims. I don't care what their religion or ethnicity is.

You're right; there have been other ethnicities that were brutalized - even in the last few years we've heard about them.

As for why you don't like hearing about it, or why it annoys you to the extent that you state they "harp" about the holocaust, only you can answer that. I think that the Anus still harp on it; so do the American Indians. The Blacks, the Mexicans, the Chinese, the Mongolians, the Chechyns, and so on, and so on.

Man has been brutal to man since time immemorial...so why only limit your disdain to the jews?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[waltappel 1]

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Ok, I will admit here that I have no understanding whatsoever why Jews continue to scream so much about the Holocaust instead of focusing on the present. Jews are not the only people to have been victimized. The Holocaust is not even close to being the biggest in numbers of people killed at the hands of a government led by a psychopath.

It annoys me when I hear Jews harping about the Holocaust. Sometimes it really annoys the piss out of me. I think in general if people want to stop being victims, then they should quit acting like victims. I don't care what their religion or ethnicity is.

You're right; there have been other ethnicities that were brutalized - even in the last few years we've heard about them.

As for why you don't like hearing about it, or why it annoys you to the extent that you state they "harp" about the holocaust, only you can answer that. I think that the Anus still harp on it; so do the American Indians. The Blacks, the Mexicans, the Chinese, the Mongolians, the Chechyns, and so on, and so on.

Man has been brutal to man since time immemorial...so why only limit your disdain to the jews?

Ciels-
Michele

Believe me, my disdain for groups playing the victim card is nowhere near being limited to Jews. My comments were specific to Jews only because you asked me about my views toward Jews.

As to why it annoys me so much, I know the answer, and that is that people who harp on the Holocaust like it is the only massive case of inhumanity that has ever happend and that Jews are the only people who have ever been oppressed are, IMO, being very dishonest by not acknowledging the suffering of others.

Just for grins, I'll run down your list:

The Anus: I've never thought of the anus as an ethnic group. Is this a typo?

American Indians: They don't harp on it so much in my experience. The Native Americans I have been around (mostly Navajo) seemed like very dignified people.

The Blacks: Specifically, American blacks harping on slavery. Don't get me started on that. As a group, they give Jews one hell of a run for the money on playing the victim card. Jews have a bit of an edge because of their international distribution and influence, though.

The Mexicans: Another group that in my experience doesn't play the victim card all that often--at least not publicly.

Chinese: I haven't been around many Chinese, so I really can't say.

Mongolians: I haven't been around any Mongolians that I know of.

Chechyns: Haven't met any personally, but judging by what I've seen in the news, they don't complain, they get even--in a really big way.

If you get the impression that I specifically hate jews, I really don't. Whiners, in general, though, really annoy the piss out of me.

Not all Jews are whiners. Not all whiners are Jews. But all whiners are annoying (at least to me). When I find myself whining, it annoys me far more than hearing anyone else whine.

I think that's enough on this topic unless you want me to expound or clarify. If so, just let me know.

Walt

[beowulf 1]

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As to the fighting, I wish it would stop. As to why it's being fought over, it's less the religious aspect from the Jewish perspective but rather a guarantee that the Holocaust will never happen again.

I call bullshit on this one. You need to read up on the history of Zionism and the Jews struggle to create a national home. It started waaaay before the holocaust. The holocaust just helped accelerate it.

[beowulf 1]

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none of the muslims I've asked has ever had a clear answer (and no, I don't mean an answer I agree with; just one which is cogent and based in reality). While there are some who scream "It's the HOLY Land, and it's OURS!!!" mostly I don't think it's considered in that respect by the majority of those in Israel and elsewhere.

The Palestinians are upset because the Jews basically immigrated there in mass and took over their country. During 1917 to 1948 Palestine was under British mandate and they mostly favored the Jews. This allowed the Jews to immigrate there and build business and prosper much more then the Palestinians. I would not be too happy if I were a Palestinan, but that in no way gives them the right to do what they have done. Terrorism is never the right thing to do.

[pajarito 0]

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The Palestinians are upset because the Jews basically immigrated there in mass and took over their country. During 1917 to 1948 Palestine was under British mandate and they mostly favored the Jews. This allowed the Jews to immigrate there and build business and prosper much more then the Palestinians. I would not be too happy if I were a Palestinan, but that in no way gives them the right to do what they have done. Terrorism is never the right thing to do.

The Jews were there and held rightful claim 2000 years before the rise of Islam. They didn't just "walk back in" in 1948.

[SudsyFist 0]

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The Jews were there and held rightful claim 2000 years before the rise of Islam. They didn't just "walk back in" in 1948.

Of course not. Those Jews were dead well before 1948.

Have you been watching those zombie movies again?

[beowulf 1]

That is a bullshit argument. By that reasoning we should give all the land we stole from Native Americans back to the Native Americans. YES they did just walk back in and take what they perceived as theirs. They should have wiped out the people already living there if they didn't want a prolonged fight.

[AlexCrowley 0]

I have.

I dotn remember any jews. There's a hare krishna zombie though.

Should I convert?

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Darius11 12]

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Good deal. And thanks for understanding where I'm coming from.

As to the fighting, I wish it would stop. As to why it's being fought over, it's less the religious aspect from the Jewish perspective but rather a guarantee that the Holocaust will never happen again. Can't speak to the Muslim perspective of the Jews; none of the muslims I've asked has ever had a clear answer (and no, I don't mean an answer I agree with; just one which is cogent and based in reality). While there are some who scream "It's the HOLY Land, and it's OURS!!!" mostly I don't think it's considered in that respect by the majority of those in Israel and elsewhere.

LOL Michele there is many of us who have pointed out why we don’t agree or support Israel, but I guess people decide to see what they want.

I have never seen any one on here who shares the same views as me to give this “It’s a HOLY land” as the reason.


This is as simple as I can put it, Israel did not exists 50 years ago the land was occupied by Palestinian (not just Muslim Palestinians but Christians as well), With our support Israel was able to have settlements and when they had the military power again thanks to us they decided to take more and more land.
I am so sick of the Boo Hoo whining. You wonder why people kill Israelis simple they kill Palestinians. Why they Palestinians kill Israeli children simple Israel has killed many Palestinian children.


If you ever want to know who is right or get a better idea of the conditions the Palestinians are forced to live in just google it. You can read accounts from Christians and Jews who have posted the diaries on line.
They treat the Palestinians like dogs odd how a race who seem to bring up their unjust treatment that occurred more then 50 years ago has no problem doing it to others.

IMOP If the Israelis were allowed to live in peace that would be a huge injustice they do not deserve it until they change there ways.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[mnealtx 0]

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they do not deserve it until they change there ways.

When was the last time you heard of an Israeli blowing himself up in the middle of a Palestinian shopping mall?

The Palestinians won't be taken seriously until they make an effort to stop the suicide bombers, IMO.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SudsyFist 0]

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When was the last time you heard of an Israeli blowing himself up in the middle of a Palestinian shopping mall?

The Palestinians won't be taken seriously until they make an effort to stop the suicide bombers, IMO.

When was the last time you heard of an Palestinian helicopter firing anti-tank missiles into the middle of a crowded Israeli street?

The Israelis won't be taken seriously until they make an effort to stop their militant rule of the Palestinians, IMO.


Hint: These arguments are circular for a reason. Hate begets hate. Violence begets violence. Injustice begets injustice. And so on.

No shit?

No shit.

[mnealtx 0]

You mean this one?

The one where the Israelis fired on a vehicle that was carrying people that had just fired rockets into Israel?

I understand you're playing devil's advocate, Suds... and yes, the violence can beget more violence, but I still feel that after years of deliberate suicide bombings targeted against civilians, that the Palestinians will have to rein them in before anyone will take them seriously.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Dolph 0]

Darius, what is your opinion on the matter of Muslim occupied Palestinian land?

A huge slab of land is under the control of Muslim neighbors (Jordan I believe). They don't seem too keen on allowing autonomy on the territory they first occupied and then annexed.

The violence so far has been directed at Israel - it's a sore spot on an otherwise Muslim area of the world, and to make matters worse it's a powerful little nation. Losing three wars to it probably hasn't made things better.

Do you believe an Intifada, complete with suicide attacks against civilians is warranted (against Jordan, that is)? They occupy land, the Palestinians are rather unwanted there and are treated comparatively worse.

I understand your perspective - I consider the Israeli treatment of Palestinians in the occupied zones disgraceful.I am not blind however to the environment the Israelis are in - they've been to three wars in their short existence and their neighbors have called for their total annihilation. And tried to ensure it. there is as always two sides of the coin and wrongs are made on both.

One really has to get outof the vicious tit for tat thing. Someone killed someone. The other side retaliates. A retaliation follows. And so on. Doesn't even matter who started it, it has its own momentum until someone puts the foot down. The blame game ain't helpful here. The Iraelis want the terror to stop and the Palestinians want control of their territory. Extremist groups in both camps don't want peace at all and continue to wreck the efforts of a valiant few.

I still wonder though; why no suicide attacks in Jordan?

[Darius11 12]

Just do a search under Palestinian children killed by Israeli attacks you will see for your self.


Suds makes a great point. A kill is kill no matter how it is done it is still murder.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Michele 1]

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The Anus: I've never thought of the anus as an ethnic group. Is this a typo?

Not anus as in rectal. Anu as in the tribe; I mayn't have pluralized it properly, thus the confusion.

I'm clear that you don't see yourself as an anti-semite. I'm clear that you see yourself as anti-whiner. But I'd suggest you hang out with some jews; you'll find they are far less "whiney" than you believe...and a tad more dignified about things than you perceive.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~