Radical Islam Opinion

[pajarito 0]

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Right but that doesn't mean it was ok to setup such a one sided Gov. that only favored the Jews.

It's a Jewish state. If they don't like it, they can go squat elsewhere.

[lurch 0]

Can anyone explain to me wtf is humanity's problem with the jews? Why the fuck have they been singled out for ongoing nonstop endless hatred by whoever the fuck, wherever the fuck they go?
I mean look, hate or pc-ism aside, different race/cultural groups have generalities which apply loosely to the group, and may or may not apply to individuals within that group. I.E. Japanese are small, fierce, want to take over Asia and have a big cultural thing for small complicated gadgets, Italians tend to have big noses and fiery passionate personalities, Irish love to drink, Mexicans tend to hot spicy food and grab crotches at each other as a form of greeting, Russians love to build big shit and take things over, Bantu-descended African negroes have oversize genitalia, Germans are big on authority und ordnung, French are big on culture, wine and dining and declining to go to war in favor of staying at home and getting laid, etc.
And jews have a lot of money, big noses, and tend to get picked on a lot.
WHY?
I'm familiar with at least the general outline of their history as a culture and racial group and I just don't understand what has made them targets for thousands of years. If it ain't the Romans its the Arabs, or the Germans, or whoever, but theres always someone out there who wants to kick their asses and kill them off.
I know a few jews. They're just people. Whatever it is, I can't see it. My most recent prolonged interaction with a guy I knew was jewish consisted of him loaning me a rig for several months when I didn't have a canopy. Yeah, thats real offensive and deserves persecution.
They don't even have any offensive or obnoxious cultural habits, for christs sake. They don't have it on their agenda to force everyone to submit to their religion or die, (arabs, islam), they don't tend to try to forcibly export their ideology or form of government or take over other countries and use them as pawns or weapons, (Americans, British, Russians...) They don't have a built-in tendency to internal genocide and self-slaughter over internal differences, (Africans,(Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Somalia etc), Russians, (think Stalin's purges+ 10 million dead) Balkans/eastern Europeans, (Kosovo, ethnic Albanians, "ethnic cleansing").
Follow my drift here? There are some groups that are just kind of like leave me alone to do my own thing, don't seem to feel collectively entitled to just take someone else's shit, and don't have a hate-on for anyone else in particular. Tibetans, Buddhist types in general, Laotians, American Indians, Roma, Eskimos, Aleuts, Amish and a number of similar small harmless self-contained and slightly eccentric christian subsects come to mind. Jews seem to fit in that category. The palestinians currently would disagree with me on that one, but prior to the artificial creation of the Israeli state (the jews didn't take over the region loosely referred to as palestine, the freakin' UN did, said now its Israel and said hey jews thats your homeland we made it official now go there if you want) and the current conflict caused by its existence the Jews weren't a force to be reckoned with, didn't have an official unified representative national presence, (Israel itself). Just a racial identity and a set of cultural feeding and family habits with an optional religious component. Which in itself recommends them highly since with most religious groups tied to race, religious participation isn't optional. Try being an atheist arab in any country that identifies itself as islamic. Penalty for simply deciding I don't want to BE a muslim is death, lot of places. Used to be the same with christianity too, although last century or so christianity seems to have matured a little bit and currently does acknowledge atheists and other religions' right to exist without bending knee to the cross. Jews seem to have a lot of internal tolerance...You're not big on all that God stuff? Fine, you're still family, here have some gefilte fish and matzo balls.
So what the fuck is the problem? Jews are one of the less-offensive human subspecies, certainly less than my own, far more harmless than most and with a tendency to boosting the local economy whereever they go. You'd think they'd be welcome.
End irritated rant.
-B
Postrant: Or is my perception here flawed and a mere reflection of media representation and incomplete awareness of history? Educate me here.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[Michele 1]

Lurch, I haven't an answer. I agree with your entire post, and I haven't an answer.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[waltappel 1]

Uh, maybe it's their persecution complex.

Walt

[Gravitymaster 0]

Very good post, Lurch. I have friends I knew for years and didn't even know they were Jewish. The best explaination I have for you is that jewish people, IMO have a very good work ethic and tend to be more successful as a culture. It's not anything genetic, it's just their ethic, instilled by their parents. I think this leads to a lot of envy and jealousy by those who aren't as motivated and want to take away from them what they have worked hard for. Nothing historically new, just depends on where the envy happens to be aimed.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Uh, maybe it's their persecution complex.

Walt

Yeah, thousands of years of persecution just might do that. There has argueably not been one racial group that has not had itself as singled out as much over all of history for persecution.

And yet I fail to see the complex of which you speak. THere are those who want rememberance but I don't see many with the "why me? attitude. I do not see it from the MAJORITY of jews I know. And I know quite a few.

So it is not say that a FEW might have a complex, but I dare you to find ANY group which has none like that.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[waltappel 1]

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Uh, maybe it's their persecution complex.

Walt

Yeah, thousands of years of persecution just might do that. There has argueably not been one racial group that has not had itself as singled out as much over all of history for persecution.

A complex? maybe. Too bad, I do not see it from the MAJORITY of jews I know. And I know quite a few.

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm older than most people around here and I just have not seen any significant targeting of Jews in my lifetime. Am I just not seeing it?

I have definitely seen targeting of blacks and, to a lesser degree Mexicans, but Jews?

When I've run accross propaganda from groups like the KKK ragging on Jews, it just strikes me as being comical. I have never seen any consequence from it.

I've never seen any Jew race riots. I've seen some really get-down persecution, but not against Jews.

What am I missing?

Walt

[pajarito 0]

It was predicted in Deuteronomy that the people of Israel would be scattered among the nations and persecuted.

[lurch 0]

Chicken and egg, man. The complex is a result of the persecution not the cause. My own ancestry includes old-school royalty and nobility a few centuries back, vikings even further back. My ancestors did the conquering ruling ass-kicking and name taking. The only persecution my line has had to deal with was several of my great x5 grandmothers got hanged as witches by whacked out locals a while ago.
The autobiography of every jew's ancestors for the last 3000+ years has included "Ran like hell to escape the current jew-stomping" at some point in their lives. With a background like that, I'd be a bit paranoid about people persecuting me, too. Hindsight is always 20/20, and if you use a mirror with your hindsight it tells you the future. If I was a jew, here, now, I'd be like "Well, I'm not being attacked right now which means watch out! Someone is about to appear to try to kill me! Every moment of peace for the last 3000 years was the calm before the pogrom, whos the next attacker?"
You've never had to personally deal with prolonged forced cohabitation with truly violent people, have you? It makes you jumpy.
Edit:
If it'll give weight to my point, consider the fact that jew-stomping is such a popular sport a word was coined just for the occasion? Pogrom.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[waltappel 1]

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Chicken and egg, man. The complex is a result of the persecution not the cause. My own ancestry includes old-school royalty and nobility a few centuries back, vikings even further back. My ancestors did the conquering ruling ass-kicking and name taking. The only persecution my line has had to deal with was several of my great x5 grandmothers got hanged as witches by whacked out locals a while ago.
The autobiography of every jew's ancestors for the last 3000+ years has included "Ran like hell to escape the current jew-stomping" at some point in their lives. With a background like that, I'd be a bit paranoid about people persecuting me, too. Hindsight is always 20/20, and if you use a mirror with your hindsight it tells you the future. If I was a jew, here, now, I'd be like "Well, I'm not being attacked right now which means watch out! Someone is about to appear to try to kill me! Every moment of peace for the last 3000 years was the calm before the pogrom, whos the next attacker?"
You've never had to personally deal with prolonged forced cohabitation with truly violent people, have you? It makes you jumpy.
Edit:
If it'll give weight to my point, consider the fact that jew-stomping is such a popular sport a word was coined just for the occasion? Pogrom.

Interesting post--thanks. I hadn't run across the word pogrom before, but here' an interesting link.

Thanks again for the post.

Walt

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I've never seen any Jew race riots. I've seen some really get-down persecution, but not against Jews.

What am I missing?

Walt

The persecution complex you were talking about. Because if they had one as a group, might there not be a riot at some point?

Until you meet every Jew, perhaps you should stop saying they all have one.

I edited my pervious post
(probably around the time you replied), so read it again.

But I think lurch summed it up better than I.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 2,991]

>One thing I've never figured out though is why many Jews
>wave their Jewishness like a flag.

Same reason people plaster flags all over their cars to show that they are proud to be american, or wear T-shirts and closing pins to prove that they are proud to be skydivers. Heck, I know a lot of people who wear crosses and talk all the time about how Jesus saved them or whatever. Some people are proud of who they are. Nothing wrong with that.

[waltappel 1]

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>One thing I've never figured out though is why many Jews
>wave their Jewishness like a flag.

Same reason people plaster flags all over their cars to show that they are proud to be american, or wear T-shirts and closing pins to prove that they are proud to be skydivers. Heck, I know a lot of people who wear crosses and talk all the time about how Jesus saved them or whatever. Some people are proud of who they are. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with anyone being proud of their heritage. I'm just more interested in what makes a person unique. Ancestry just doesn't narrow it down very much, so I wonder why they bother.

If some proudly says, "I'm Jewish, Lutheran, 3rd generation Polish-American", or whatever, and do so with a real zeal, it seems kind of quirky to me. Kind of like I want to say, "Yeah ok, you and five zillion other people, what's special about YOU?"

Beyond that, it seems kind of silly for someone to get really hung up on their ancestry when NOBODY has a choice of where, to whom, or within what family or ethnic group they are born. Kind of like they are taking credit for something they had absolutely nothing to do with.

"Whoa, you were born 5th generation Mexican-Cuban?!!! Wow, you really made an outstanding choice!!!"

I'm not saying it's wrong somehow, it just seems kind of odd to me.

On the other hand, if someone says they are a skydiver, that narrows things down quite a bit. I'm just more interested with people who get down to the details of what THEY are about. And for me, if someone defines themself by their heritage or religion or any one thing--especially something that had little or nothing to do with exercise of free will--then my tendency is going to be to blow them off in a hurry. Maybe that's limiting, but it's just the way I tend to react.

My ancesters were from Germany/Russia. BFD. I am neither ashamed nor proud of it. They were interesting and good people in their own right, no matter where the hell they were born.

Ok, I'm rambling.

Walt

[SudsyFist 0]

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Beyond that, it seems kind of silly for someone to get really hung up on their ancestry when NOBODY has a choice of where, to whom, or within what family or ethnic group they are born. Kind of like they are taking credit for something they had absolutely nothing to do with.

Yup. Perplexing, isn't it?

[waltappel 1]

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Beyond that, it seems kind of silly for someone to get really hung up on their ancestry when NOBODY has a choice of where, to whom, or within what family or ethnic group they are born. Kind of like they are taking credit for something they had absolutely nothing to do with.

Yup. Perplexing, isn't it?

Maybe just perplexing to feeble-minded people like me, but perplexing for sure.

Walt

[SudsyFist 0]

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Maybe just perplexing to feeble-minded people like me, but perplexing for sure.

If that's the case, then I'm feeble right there with you. I've never understood nor related with personal pride in something over which the individual has absolutely no control or effect.

It's a big WTF as far as I'm feebly concerned.

[rickjump1 0]

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Maybe I'm naive, but I'm older than most people around here and I just have not seen any significant targeting of Jews in my lifetime. Am I just not seeing it?

Walt, I'm probably as old as you. I think our generation just missed this targeting you speak of or maybe we just did not see it growing up. Gregory Peck risked his career by playing the part of man who pretended to be a Jew in everyday America during the late 40's or early 50's. As I recall he could not find employment, join any clubs, and his children were ridiculed at school because people thought they were Jews. Yes it was just a movie but G. Peck wanted to show us just how Jews were treated. This country hated Jews so much we turned away a shipload from Germany in 1942 (a little before my time). Nobody would take them so they went back to Germany to die in the death camps. In addition, the US State Department used delaying tactics to avoid giving visas to Jews wanting to leave Germany when they could.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[SudsyFist 0]

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Walt, I'm probably as old as you.

And the award for Best Conversation Opener goes to...

[waltappel 1]

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Maybe I'm naive, but I'm older than most people around here and I just have not seen any significant targeting of Jews in my lifetime. Am I just not seeing it?

Walt, I'm probably as old as you. I think our generation just missed this targeting you speak of or maybe we just did not see it growing up. Gregory Peck risked his career by playing the part of man who pretended to be a Jew in everyday America during the late 40's or early 50's. As I recall he could not find employment, join any clubs, and his children were ridiculed at school because people thought they were Jews. Yes it was just a movie but G. Peck wanted to show us just how Jews were treated. This country hated Jews so much we turned away a shipload from Germany in 1942 (a little before my time). Nobody would take them so they went back to Germany to die in the death camps. In addition, the US State Department used delaying tactics to avoid giving visas to Jews wanting to leave Germany when they could.

That stuff seems very surreal to me. I have a hard time imagining it happening in the US, but times do change. Just becuase it didn't happen in my lifetime (48 years, in case you're wondering) it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just makes it very difficult for me to relate to.

Walt

[rickjump1 0]

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Maybe I'm naive, but I'm older than most people around here and I just have not seen any significant targeting of Jews in my lifetime. Am I just not seeing it?

Walt, I'm probably as old as you. I think our generation just missed this targeting you speak of or maybe we just did not see it growing up. Gregory Peck risked his career by playing the part of man who pretended to be a Jew in everyday America during the late 40's or early 50's. As I recall he could not find employment, join any clubs, and his children were ridiculed at school because people thought they were Jews. Yes it was just a movie but G. Peck wanted to show us just how Jews were treated. This country hated Jews so much we turned away a shipload from Germany in 1942 (a little before my time). Nobody would take them so they went back to Germany to die in the death camps. In addition, the US State Department used delaying tactics to avoid giving visas to Jews wanting to leave Germany when they could.

That stuff seems very surreal to me. I have a hard time imagining it happening in the US, but times do change. Just becuase it didn't happen in my lifetime (48 years, in case you're wondering) it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just makes it very difficult for me to relate to.

Walt

Well I'm just a tad older than you;13 years to be exact. Hard to believe, but this stuff actually happened, and a lot of older Americans don't like to be reminded of it. I was off on the date the ship arrived in this country according to this.http://www.humanities.uci.edu/~rmoeller/body/dublon_stlous.html

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[waltappel 1]

That's is sad indeed. Why were they denied entry into the US?

Walt

[lurch 0]

Excellent link, I just learned a shitload more about pogroms than I knew yesterday.
I just find it disturbing that "Lets go kill all the jews we can find" has been such an institution for so long it has its own jargon. GTA got it right... By virtue of the particular window in time in which you exist you haven't seen it because we're in that "calm before the pogrom" and there aren't any communities of jews anywhere except Israel itself who have to worry about their neighbors suddenly rising up and slaughtering them. It just isn't something people have been doing much lately, probably because the whole planet knows what happened to em under the Reich and even anyone pogrom-prone winds up deciding to leave them alone thinking they've taken enough of a beating already. Before the mid-20th it happened all the time, all over the place. Its why anti-semitic is a word you come across so often. Anti-semitism is an institution itself. Other races don't have to deal with this shit. You don't come across mention of antijapaneseism, antichineseism, antiitalianism, antigreekism. Lot of people got grudges against Russians what with them spending most of the last century going places Russians don't come from and notifying them that you are now our client state, please enjoy the tanks. But Russia kind of outgrew that shit and the anger will fade. My own exposure to Russians has been flight-loving friends in wingsuits, far cry from their media portrayal from my childhood as the bad guys. 2 centuries from now, people will still have "annihilate all jews" on their agendas. Some evil ideas just never die.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[waltappel 1]

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Walt, I'm probably as old as you.

And the award for Best Conversation Opener goes to...

ROTFLMAO!!!


Walt

[waltappel 1]

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I am equally clear that there are many people on this board who believe that the jews, as a whole, are people who should be anihilated and wiped from the face of the earth (as in let the state of Israel disappear).

What?!!!!

Michele, we have different points of view for sure, but does the above statement not seem at least a little paranoid?

In case you are wondering, I wish no harm whatsoever on Jews, but I think you already know that (at least I hope so).

Walt

[AlexCrowley 0]

I think the anti-Jew thing is pretty odd..my perception may be slightly skewed by friends working for pro-jewish non-profits...but it now seems that if you criticize Israel it is considered anti-jew and anti-semetic. I also think it rather weird that anything considered anti-jew is considered anti-semetic, which tends to cause the other semetic races to look up from what they were doing and utter a rather confused 'uhh?'.

Actually I find the whole concept of anti-semetism odd, but I find the whole Jewish kneejerk overreaction annoying.

That might be because my ancestry is an ethnic group that was also cleansed by the germans and is still hated by everyone :)

Or simply because im a heartless uncaring bastard.

I'm leaning towards the latter.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.