Dear Valued Hybrid Customer....

[Gravitymaster 0]

Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...
November 30, 2005; Page A19

We at the Toyota Motor Corporation are writing to address certain misconceptions that have arisen about your Toyota Prius model, which we are proud to note is driven by many celebrities, including Prince Charles and HBO's Larry David.

Our pioneering gasoline-electric hybrid, introduced in 1999, has become an object of adoration to the world's enlightened car buyers. Our competitors, including America's Big Three, are rushing out hybrid vehicles of their own. Unconfirmed media reports say that we at Toyota intend to double our hybrid output to 500,000 vehicles next year. Along with other members of the auto industry, we will be lobbying for tax breaks and HOV privileges for hybrid vehicles.

However, any romance entering its seventh year tends to go stale. Some purchasers have begun to question the practical value of our Hybrid Synergy Drive technology. You may be aware that a survey by Consumer Reports found that our vehicles achieve considerably less mileage (some 26% less) than the sticker rating implies. This has led to some unflattering media stories.

Let us assure you that the Prius remains one of the most fuel-efficient cars on the road. Toyota applauds your willingness to spend $9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle for the privilege of saving, at current gasoline prices, approximately $580 a year.


And should the price of gasoline rise to $5, after 10 years and/or 130,000 miles of driving, you might even come close to breaking even on your investment in hybrid technology.

We recognize that our customers have an "emotional" relationship with their vehicles. This transcends even the regrettable truth that driving a fuel-efficient car does not yield any substantial benefits for society if it doesn't save the owner money.

Contrary to any loose statements made by our marketing partners in the environmental community and media, petroleum not consumed by Prius owners is not "saved." It does not remain in the ground. It is consumed by someone else. Greenhouse pollutants are released. Also, please note that the warranty and owner's manual say nothing about reducing America's dependence on foreign oil. This is not an oversight. The Prius is an "oil-dependent" vehicle. It runs on gasoline, supplied by the same world market that fuels other vehicles.

The Toyota Corporation regrets any misunderstanding our marketing may inadvertently have caused (or may cause in the future).

We share your belief that the days of the internal combustion engine are numbered. Further research by our economists suggests this will happen when the price of gasoline rises high enough to make alternative technologies cheaper than gasoline-powered cars.

We at Toyota want you to know we recognize this effect and have taken steps to compensate with the rest of our vehicle lineup.

Our 2006 Tundra pickup will be equipped with Toyota's new eight-cylinder engine, making it every bit as much of a gas guzzler as any American pickup. We are also redirecting our efforts to use our Hybrid Synergy Drive to increase power output rather than reduce gasoline consumption.

Take our new hybrid SUV, which produces 38 more horsepower but gets the same mileage as our conventional version. A New York Times reviewer wrote, "One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX400h: How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits?"

We hope this corrects any misimpression caused by our latest slogan ("Commute with Nature"). Hybrid technology is not "green" technology. Like heated seats or flashy exterior trim, it's merely an expensive option that generates large markups for the Toyota Corporation and its dealers.

You will share our pride in the latest figures from J.D. Power & Associates, which show that the Prius continues to move off a dealer's lot in just eight days, compared to 36 days for a Honda Civic hybrid. Clearly, our customers are willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of showing themselves behind the wheel of so conspicuously virtuous a vehicle.

But we are also a far-seeing corporation. We recognize that the Prius's distinctiveness may be a wasting asset for reasons outlined in this letter. Other motorists may see the Prius operator and think "sucker." Our lawyers advise us this may affect your car's resale value. Toyota regrets any inconvenience.

We want you to know that Toyota remains committed to advancing hybrid technology just as long as our customers are willing to make it worth our while. Our esteemed competitor, Nissan's Carlos Ghosn, was recently quoted saying, "There's such a buzz today that no CEO of a car manufacturer dares to say his real opinion of hybrid because he's accused of being retarded."

Another esteemed competitor, GM, has suggested that hybrid technology is best deployed in city buses, where large fuel consumption and stop-and-go driving might actually make it economically sensible.

These are just two examples of the short-sighted, stick-in-the-mud marketing instincts of our fellow automakers that are helping to make Toyota the largest car company in the world.

Yours Truly, the Toyota Corporation.

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Ah.. finally the truth.

[billvon 2,998]

I counted five of them in the DZ parking lot this weekend. People are starting to realize they're a good investment - one of the few cars out there that can be resold at a higher price one paid for it. (The 2005 Prius sells for $21,440 base. An average 2004 Prius has a blue book value slightly _over_ its base cost of $21,510.)

Ford has gotten its act together and is launching hybrid vehicles as well. GM can't seem to get there - they have one hybrid truck that gets 1mpg better than its gas-only counterpart.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I counted five of them in the DZ parking lot this weekend. People are starting to realize they're a good investment - one of the few cars out there that can be resold at a higher price one paid for it. (The 2005 Prius sells for $21,440 base. An average 2004 Prius has a blue book value slightly _over_ its base cost of $21,510.)

Ford has gotten its act together and is launching hybrid vehicles as well. GM can't seem to get there - they have one hybrid truck that gets 1mpg better than its gas-only counterpart.

The resale value is artificially high because some people don't want to wait for a new one. Heck my 2002 Harley Davidson has only dropped in value slightly for the same reason. As more and more manufacturers make the hybrids, that will change. I also think as repairs and the actual saving history makes for a more valid comparison, the hybrids will become less in demand. Right now being Green is cool because it gives people a reason to be snobbish, much in the same way as someone who owns a Ferrari.

[mirage62 0]

Don't argue with a "greenie" besides Bill HAS TO SAY SOMETHING positive it's in his contract.

Gas $1.96. Will it go back up - yep.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 2,998]

>The resale value is artificially high because some people don't want to wait for a new one.

Which is because they are in high demand. Which, in turn, makes them valuable in a free economy.

>I also think as repairs and the actual saving history makes for a
>more valid comparison, the hybrids will become less in demand.

Right, and hybrids should have lower maintenance costs over the life of the vehicle, since 1) the engine doesn't run very often, 2) most hybrids have no conventional transmissions, clutch or torque converter, 3) the brake pads aren't the primary means of stopping, and 4) because they lack things like fan belts, air conditioning compressor belts, and power steering fluids/pumps/belts.

>Right now being Green is cool because it gives people a reason to be snobbish . . .

Good article on this attitude:

------------------------
In May, 2005, Edmunds.com did an analysis for USA Today, and concluded the cost for advanced hybrid technology isn't "completely offset by gas savings and federal tax credits over the five years that owners typically keep their vehicles." The story proclaims, with dramatic flair, that hybrid owners would have to drive tens of thousands of extra miles a year, or gasoline would have to hit $5.60 a gallon before reaching the break-even point with a comparable gas-powered model. Their study reportedly considered purchase price, taxes, financing, insurance and maintenance over five years.

The Vast Left-Wing Hybrid Conspiracy

The Edmund.com-USA Today analysis is only the most sober and rational of criticisms of the hybrid purchase. As we’ve discussed on this site, there is plenty of anti-hybrid invective to go around. According to the detractors, satisfied hybrid drivers are "stupid enviro-weenies." Dan Neil, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist of the Los Angeles Times, found numerous examples of writers and pundits dismissing the technology as "an emotional sop for liberals, pure tree-hugging feel-goodism for the 'Save the Whale' and 'Free Tibet' folks."

Neil’s analysis goes further. He wrote, "Energizing all of these objections is a larger, darker, suspicion that hybrids represent some sort of fraud—'magical thinking,' one calls it—and the insufficiently critical mainstream journalist are complicit." Sally Pipes, president of the Pacific Research Institute, calls hybrid cars "a ruse for environmentalists and eco-fascists." Is a hybrid conspiracy being plotted? Does the hybrid-pushing cabal of the L.A. Times, the Prius-driving Hollywood elite, and perhaps others gather in a dark and hidden lair in Los Angeles—not coincidentally the U.S. corporate headquarters for Toyota and Honda. Or maybe economic realities have simply tilted in favor of hybrids?

Gas Prices and Enhanced Tax Credits

The calculus of hybrid payback periods shifted in Aug. 2005, when gas prices shot past three bucks and President Bush signed enhanced tax incentives into law as part of the Energy Act (which goes into effect Jan. 1, 2006.) As Neil indicated, perhaps hybrids didn’t pay for themselves two years ago when gas was $2 per gallon, but "it’s a much closer call now that gas is roughly $3 per gallon."

When you add the new tax credit—which for a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid will put about $2,100 back in your pocket—you will come out "about $1,200 ahead" over a five year-period by choosing the Civic Hybrid over the conventional model, according to Neil.

Costs and Value Overlooked

Calculating relative maintenance costs is tricky. The regenerative braking system should actually reduce wear and tear and reduce costs. In an L.A. Times story (not authored by Neil) about the maintenance costs for a Prius, Auto technician Gus Heredia of Anaheim, Calif., said "We get an average of about 100 cars a day through the service department." He added, "Maybe three or four are Priuses, and they're usually just in for an oil change. I'd go broke if the Prius was all I worked on."

The obvious flaw with most hybrid cost assessments is the limitation to five years, not the lifetime of the vehicle. You might wonder what good it does you to have value wrapped up in the car, if you decide to sell at the five-year mark. The answer: resale value.

The May 23 issue of Automotive News carried a story entitled "Used Prius Costs Same As New One." Using data from Toyota’s reports on certified-used Priuses, we learn the following:

The base price of the 2005 Prius is $21,440, including shipping.
Kelly Blue Book data shows that a used 2004 Prius typically sells, at wholesale, at or above the original base sticker price of $21,510.
Dealers add $1,000 to $3,000 to the price of used Priuses at retail. (Sell a Prius for yourself, and you can get as much as $25,000.)
Used Priuses usually stay on a used car lot for just a day or two.
Toyota expects U.S. sales of certified-used Priuses to nearly double this year, compared with 2004.

Most people say, "You lose a couple thousand dollars as you soon as you drive off the lot." Hybrids may be an exception to this rule.

Some hybrid advocates think the "you’ll never recoup your extra investment" argument is entirely beside the point. Steve Lancaster of Atmore, Ala., explained, "There is no such thing as recouping cost for a car. All cars are horrible investments, so the concept of recouping cost is irrelevant." He looks at a $60,000 Corvette driven by a frat boy—a mid-lifer in crisis would also work—and wonders if the frat boy’s feeling of coolness and social superiority ever exceed the cost his father put into the car. He added, "The guy who buys a stick shift to save $2000 at purchase, does he break even on gas mileage and resale? I know this answer is no.”

Lancaster’s views on car economics, or any calculation which yields a reasonable payback period for hybrids, is unlikely to put a stop to the steady stream of articles that try to convince car shoppers that hybrids are a waste of money. Anti-hybrid car executives are also not likely to be dissuaded. Detroit understands that cars are an emotional purchase when it comes to size and speed, but somehow can’t understand the emotional appeal of a hybrid. Dan Neil advises us to put away our calculators, "because the point is not whether I, or you will recoup penny-for-penny the hybrid investment, since the compensations are not exclusively monetary."

Ultimately, the litmus test is whether or not hybrids are selling in greater numbers to satisfied customers—on its path to economies of scale and significant reductions in the hybrid premium. There’s little doubt on that question. Neil hit the nail on the head:

"The reason hybrid cars are flying off dealers' lots is not because they make such a galvanizing financial brief. It's because people of goodwill, conservative and liberal, are growing weary of the moral calculus of gasoline. What people are learning is that private choices have public consequences. Sure, I'll make my money back, but the more important thing is the 643 gallons of liquid crack I will save. Now that's conservative."

[quade 4]

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Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...
November 30, 2005; Page A19
(snipped for brevity)

Ah.. finally the truth.

The "truth" is that this is a satrical piece by HOLMAN W. JENKINS published in The Wall Street Journal.

This is NOT actually from Toyota.

Here's the original;

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113332075479109882-lMyQjAxMDE1MzMzMDMzMjAwWj.html

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

Cars are an emotional purchase. If someone wants a hybrid, more power to them - they have some neat features for energy recovery, etc. Puarchasing cars is good for the economy. That's what I hear anyway, keeps the money moving.

Giving tax breaks for any particular kind of car is out of line though (another let down from GWB), and I wish we'd stop manipulating the economy in that way. Keying or burning up a whole dealer lot of Hummers is out of line, too. But the second group of people would applaud both actions.

I think some people who are 'green' in attitude are the genuine thing too. It's not all about being trendy or judgmental. Just have to figure out which are which. There are a lot of both. Comes from having too much disposable income.

Gas prices - now they are back to the pre-hurricane levels (just under $2 around here). I suspect they'll continue to climb slowly like before.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ReBirth 0]

Quade....give him some credit, man. After all, it's not like he thought it was a legitimate newsmax article.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Too bad that article was written before Consumer Reports came out with the article about what a fraud the MPG ratings are. IIRC the Prius actually got 19MPG city, less than the EPA rating.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...
November 30, 2005; Page A19
(snipped for brevity)

Ah.. finally the truth.

The "truth" is that this is a satrical piece by HOLMAN W. JENKINS published in The Wall Street Journal.

This is NOT actually from Toyota.

Here's the original;

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113332075479109882-lMyQjAxMDE1MzMzMDMzMjAwWj.html

I thought that was pretty obvious.

[ReBirth 0]

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the Prius actually got 19MPG city

Really? That's suprising. I thought part of the draw was that they got better mpg in the city than hwy, because of the brakes recharging it.

[billvon 2,998]

>before Consumer Reports came out with the article about what a
>fraud the MPG ratings are.

Sorry, no dice. I have one of these things. EPA ratings are 60 city 51 highway. I've gotten 65mpg coming home from Perris (hilly, highway driving, doing 55mph) and I've also gotten 38mph (driving 85+MPH.) In suburbia (I don't generally drive in the city; we barely have one) I get 55mpg or so.

Perhaps Consumer Reports have not yet figured out that how you drive affects gas mileage, or has not realized that EPA estimates were based on a driving schedule put in place when the speed limits were 55mph.

>IIRC the Prius actually got 19MPG city . . .

You have to drive with the emergency brake on to get mileage numbers that low. I've tried, and the lowest I could get was about 25mpg - and that was with flooring it at every light, panic braking at the last second etc.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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the Prius actually got 19MPG city

Really? That's suprising. I thought part of the draw was that they got better mpg in the city than hwy, because of the brakes recharging it.

My mistake, I meant the city rating was 19 mpg less than the EPA estimate.

[billvon 2,998]

>My mistake, I meant the city rating was 19 mpg less than the EPA estimate.

That I can easily believe. Driving without regard for efficiency would get you such a number in a suburban setting.

To me, EPA estimates are like canopy sizes. You'd think that something that easy to measure (after all, you just use a measuring tape and some math!) should give you an exact number. But it doesn't since different people measure different canopies different ways. The PD126R, for example, measures 137 sq ft when measured to Sandy's PIA standard.

What is important there is that people know how a Sabre2 150 flies, and they know that the Sabre2 135 is approximately 10% smaller, so it will be a bit faster, a bit less forgiving etc. They don't really care that a Sabre2 150 is really 162 square feet - provided that ratio is maintained. As long as manufacturers use a similar standard, people can judge the relative size of canopies.

In a similar vein, even if EPA estimates don't tell you what gas mileage _you_ will get based on your driving style, they will tell you that if you get a car with an EPA estimate of 50mpg vs 25mpg you'll spend about half as much on fuel - everything else being equal.

[Gravitymaster 0]

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/buyingleasing/most-fuelefficient-cars-1105.htm

Remember CU is very pro-hybrid. They use the same criteria for testing hybrids as they do for gasoline only cars so I don't see why the hybrid ratings would be so far off compared to the gasoline models.
Perhaps you have a magic car?

[ViperPilot 0]

If I wantd a castrated vehicle, I'd drive a Prius...luckily, I drive a real car...and no, I don't care that it doesn't get as good mileage!

[billvon 2,998]

>If I wantd a castrated vehicle, I'd drive a Prius...

You've never seen Amy drive the thing when she's late for a 4-way event!

[ViperPilot 0]

haha, ok...but I can still hear the whine of the engine now as she slams her car to a blazing 80 mph.

[quade 4]

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Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...
November 30, 2005; Page A19
(snipped for brevity)

Ah.. finally the truth.

The "truth" is that this is a satrical piece by HOLMAN W. JENKINS published in The Wall Street Journal.

This is NOT actually from Toyota.

Here's the original;

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113332075479109882-lMyQjAxMDE1MzMzMDMzMjAwWj.html

I thought that was pretty obvious.

I thought not. I thought it was potentially deceptive.

To avoid confusion and to maintain credibility in the future, quote if you must, but please put links to the original if possible.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Quote

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Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...
November 30, 2005; Page A19
(snipped for brevity)

Ah.. finally the truth.

The "truth" is that this is a satrical piece by HOLMAN W. JENKINS published in The Wall Street Journal.

This is NOT actually from Toyota.

Here's the original;

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113332075479109882-lMyQjAxMDE1MzMzMDMzMjAwWj.html

I thought that was pretty obvious.

I thought not. I thought it was pretty deceptive.

To avoid confusion and to maintain credibility in the future, quote if you must, but please put links to the original if possible.

Are you fucking serious? You actually read the whole thing and truely believed it was a real letter from Toyota? I'm speechless. (and that doesn't happen very often)

[billvon 2,998]

>. . . as she slams her car to a blazing 80 mph.

Like I said, you've never seen her late. Suffice to say that it's a good thing they had that third digit for the digital speedometer.

[quade 4]

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Quote

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Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...
November 30, 2005; Page A19
(snipped for brevity)

Ah.. finally the truth.

The "truth" is that this is a satrical piece by HOLMAN W. JENKINS published in The Wall Street Journal.

This is NOT actually from Toyota.

Here's the original;

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113332075479109882-lMyQjAxMDE1MzMzMDMzMjAwWj.html

I thought that was pretty obvious.

I thought not. I thought it was pretty deceptive.

To avoid confusion and to maintain credibility in the future, quote if you must, but please put links to the original if possible.

Are you fucking serious? You actually read the whole thing and truely believed it was a real letter from Toyota? I'm speechless. (and that doesn't happen very often)

Piffle . . . not ME . . . others.

All one need do is actually Google this and you'd be AMAZED how stupid some people are out there.

This "letter" has actually caused quite a stir.

For example;

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=453195&page_number=1

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SudsyFist 0]

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All one need do is actually Google this and you'd be AMAZED how stupid some people are out there.

One needs Google for this???

I got the joke (without a hint of deceptiveness), and thought it was freakin' hilarious. Even though it would sour the humor a bit, I can see the good a link would do, though.

[alison 0]

I also drive a Prius and can vouch for the high (50+ mpg) gas mileage if you drive efficiently (i.e. accelerate & decelerate gradually, etc). In warmer weather I average about 55 mpg, and that includes both highway and "city" driving. Now in the cold weather I am getting closer to 50 mpg. Still much better than any regular gas engine. I love my Prius!

• Quote

[Gravitymaster 0]

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All one need do is actually Google this and you'd be AMAZED how stupid some people are out there.

One needs Google for this???

I got the joke (without a hint of deceptiveness), and thought it was freakin' hilarious. Even though it would sour the humor a bit, I can see the good a link would do, though.

Had I thought this would be difficult for people to see it's obvious humor, I would have and will in the future post a link. Do you think I should do anything more like putting a disclaimer or making some other symbolic gesture that its just a joke? I wouldn't want to be accused of over estimating anyones intelligence.


Oh...almost forgot......