SudsyFist 0 #26 December 5, 2005 QuoteDo you think I should do anything more like putting a disclaimer or making some other symbolic gesture that its just a joke? I wouldn't want to be accused of over estimating anyones intelligence. Oh...almost forgot...... AlexCrowley had quite the gem of a post recently that summed this up. Funny, but sad. Perhaps if we had a laughing icon wearing a hockey helmet and sitting in a wheelchair bibbed with a beach towel in front of a cafeteria table with a plate of shitty-excuse-for-food... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #27 December 5, 2005 Quote I love my Prius! Tell me exactly what you mean by this. Do you love it because of the 5.1 Dolby surround sound system? Is it because of the Ferrari type cornering? How about the smoothness of the ride like a Lexus or the acceleration of a Porche? What is it exactly that you love about your Prius? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #28 December 5, 2005 >What is it exactly that you love about your Prius? I'll tell you what I like about mine. It uses very little gas, and runs well on E50 (50% ethanol/50% gas.) It's quiet at highway speeds. It has loads of torque when you need it for passing/starting (a property of electric motors; flat torque band.) It is silent when you first turn it on, and you can run on battery only for a few miles if you just want to move the car or something. Doubles the life of the exhaust system, and the neighbors with the 18 month old like the lack of noise. It has a LOT of room inside. We've hauled 2x4's from Home Depot, spent a week living out of it, and had no problems. It has a 2" receiver for bike racks and coolers etc. A/C and heat are ready instantly, even when the engine is off. Braking is very smooth due to the regen starting before the brake pads touch. Sound system is quite good - 9 speaker JBL system, 6 CD changer, integrated XM radio. Nav system is also quite good. Electrically boosted steering is effective and quiet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alison 0 #29 December 5, 2005 I can echo most of what billvon said he loves about his Prius... except I don't have the Nav System in mine. As far as actual driving, it's a nice ride, extremely quiet, and the fact that it's a very roomy hatchback makes it convenient for anything I might want to carry along. But mostly I love the fact that with no extra effort on my part, I am able to minimize, to the extent currently commercially possible, the amount of gas that I consume while driving. I am one of those people who believes that we are going to be in desperate need of alternate energy sources sooner rather than later, and I think that the responsible thing to do is conserve what we have as much as possible. I can't stand seeing people drive around town in huge SUVs that get 10 miles to the gallon - personally I think it's extremely wasteful. The fact that I can go 400 miles for only $15 of gas is also definitely a bonus, but not the main reason I bought the car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #30 December 5, 2005 QuoteI can't stand seeing people drive around town in huge SUVs that get 10 miles to the gallon. See,,, that's where the line is crossed. This was fine in that the author was happy to save money, enjoyed the ride of the vehicle, and also had some (real or not) feeling of being 'natural resource responsible', right up until it crossed their space and entered judging of everyone else's choices. Why can't the damn car just sell itself on the basis of 'nice ride, uses less gas'? Why should the whole "global enviromentalistic" aspect even matter? That comes automatically (side effect) with a car that should be fine on it's performance and cost of use metrics alone. Making it more fuel efficient means it's a cheaper car to operate. period. what's in it for the user that's tangible, The practical reasons to buy one are sufficient to make a decision, the emotional sell seems a waste of energy and a hook for those wanting some kind of self validation. edit: I guess feeding the self satisfaction/superior need of the enviro market isn't any worse or better than feeding the similar ego response of owners of Hummers or big engine sport cars either. Different flavored ego, same stroking. Me? I'd buy one if I'm looking to reduce my PERSONAL expenditures in terms of my monthly gas bill. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #31 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteI can't stand seeing people drive around town in huge SUVs that get 10 miles to the gallon. See,,, that's where the line is crossed. This was fine in that the author was happy to save money, enjoyed the ride of the vehicle, and also had some (real or not) feeling of being 'natural resource responsible', right up until it crossed their space and entered judging of everyone else's choices. Why can't the damn car just sell itself on the basis of 'nice ride, uses less gas'? Why should the whole "global enviromentalistic" aspect even matter? That comes automatically with a car that should be fine on it's performance and cost of use metrics alone. The practical reasons to buy one are sufficient to make a decision, the emotional sell seems a waste of energy and a hook for those wanting some kind of self validation. Which is why I asked the question. I see many who drive hybrids as sneering at those who don't. An "I'm cooler than you mentality". Good post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #32 December 5, 2005 Nothing wrong with emotions. Maybe with saying it out loud (after all, it bugs you that it bugs her). But hey -- it might bug some people to see someone running around in a small car. I only get pissed at the big SUVs when they pull well out into the intersection blocking my view, so they HAVE to go before I do. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #33 December 5, 2005 >Why can't the damn car just sell itself on the basis of 'nice ride, uses > less gas'? Why should the whole "global enviromentalistic" aspect > even matter? It matters to some people. Heck, some people like to fly the flag, or contribute to charity, or work at homeless shelters, or help neighborhood kids get off drugs and alcohol. It doesn't mean they will make more money. It may not even improve their overall life, or may improve it so infinitesimaly that it doesn't matter. But it matters to them. I can also understand someone who helps kids get off drugs and alcohol getting really pissed off at a local bar that tries to attract 21 year old kids by making it a very big deal that it's cool to drink. Nothing legally wrong with that, but it might really bug _him_ because it hampers what he's doing. >The practical reasons to buy one are sufficient to make a decision . . . Indeed. Most people consider more than that when purchasing a vehicle, though. If people only drove what was practical, we wouldn't see any hybrids OR SUV's for the commuter crowd. Everyone would have a Geo Metro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 December 5, 2005 QuoteWhich is why I asked the question. I see many who drive hybrids as sneering at those who don't. An "I'm cooler than you mentality". Good post. Don't let the 'cosmetic' enviros turn your stomach. There are also the real thing out there and they are pretty decent people that mean well. There's also people driving Hummers and 'muscle cars' with the same attitude. I like Wendy's post. She'll do what she thinks is right, the others don't affect her enough to bother her unless they 'directly' are rude to her. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #35 December 5, 2005 Quote>If people only drove what was practical, we wouldn't see any hybrids OR SUV's for the commuter crowd. Bull - the 'commuter' crowd has more to life than just the commute. I work in the yard, landscape, and have a camper to haul a few times a year. And I can't afford to have one vehicle to commute, and another for this other stuff. How can you tell just be seeing my truck on the road to work that I'm hauling lumber, topsoil, etc in the bed 10% of the time. If I pull my camper to the boogies with a GEO Metro a few times a year, I'd have to replace the Metro yearly. That's a lot of scrap metal and waste going into the landfills ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #36 December 5, 2005 Have you ever done a cost comparison analysis to see how much you would save if you had a car with great fuel economy for commuting and rented a truck when you needed it? Maybe carpool or use public transit to offset your increased consumption over a more reasonable commuter vehicle? I'm not judging and saying you should be doing anything differently than you are now. But don't pretend you are doing only what is practical and aren't also considering your personal convenience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #37 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuote>If people only drove what was practical, we wouldn't see any hybrids OR SUV's for the commuter crowd. Bull - the 'commuter' crowd has more to life than just the commute. I work in the yard, landscape, and have a camper to haul a few times a year. And I can't afford to have one vehicle to commute, and another for this other stuff. How can you tell just be seeing my truck on the road to work that I'm hauling lumber, topsoil, etc in the bed 10% of the time. If I pull my camper to the boogies with a GEO Metro a few times a year, I'd have to replace the Metro yearly. That's a lot of scrap metal and waste going into the landfills I don't think many of the Hummers commuting into downtown Chicago every day (and there are lots) are driven by landscapers. The farthest off road they have ever been is the parking lot at the country club, and the most "stuff" hauled is Buffy's sleepover kit.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #38 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteI Why can't the damn car just sell itself on the basis of 'nice ride, uses less gas'? Why should the whole "global enviromentalistic" aspect even matter? That comes automatically (side effect) with a car that should be fine on it's performance and cost of use metrics alone. Making it more fuel efficient means it's a cheaper car to operate. period. what's in it for the user that's tangible, . It would be quite possible to have great gas mileage, a good ride and good performance while producing very large quantitiies of NOx - they are not exclusive attributes. According to you, this would be quite satisfactory?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #39 December 5, 2005 Yes you are judging. But that's ok. But don't pretend you can read my mind and accuse me of pretending - I haven't done any of that because I'm not in the market for a vehicle right now. Also, I get a satisfaction driving my truck that's strictly just a 'feel good' response. And I like the personal convenience. That's a factor - no pretending - didn't you read the last few posts on this page? But - when the gas prices hit a certain point, I started commuting with the car instead (same time as the wife quit her job though, else we'd still have 2 vehicles with the same monthly miles to drive), and I did look into renting a truck for at least hauling the camper Our public transit sucks - it was designed by liberals and only serves the center of the metro area, not the entire metro equally for all tax payer. Wouldn't touch it with a 20 foot token. pretty high horse on this one today, afterbirth? this is important to you. I like that. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #40 December 5, 2005 QuoteIt would be quite possible to have great gas mileage, a good ride and good performance while producing very large quantitiies of NOx - they are not exclusive attributes. According to you, this would be quite satisfactory? whatever John - Others are the masters of putting false words into other's mouths, you should stick with what you do well ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ReBirth 0 #41 December 5, 2005 I just see a lot of people justifying their choice by what they do use it for 1% of the time. WHILE trying to claim they can't do anything to be more conservative of resources. Personally, I walk to work, ride my motorcycle anywhere further, and if I really need a car, I rent something like a focus....if I really need a truck, I rent one of them. Sure, occasionally I'll rent a Viper while I'm in Vegas and burn gallons a minute tearing through the desert for fun. Not using the most fuel efficient vehicle for commuting is kind of silly though, IMO. Why waste all that gas? You're right, I guess I am judging. But I don't think anyone should make you change your vehicle, other than yourself. Just trying to provoke thoughts about alternatives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #42 December 5, 2005 QuoteHave you ever done a cost comparison analysis to see how much you would save if you had a car with great fuel economy for commuting and rented a truck when you needed it? Maybe carpool or use public transit to offset your increased consumption over a more reasonable commuter vehicle? I'm not judging and saying you should be doing anything differently than you are now. But don't pretend you are doing only what is practical and aren't also considering your personal convenience. In my case, I have my Expedition, an Acura TL and the Harley. The cost of owning all 3 isn't an issue, but the "sneerers" who only saw me driving the Expedition would jump to the conclusion that I didn't care about the environment. How would Rehmwa's renting a truck instead of owning one have any effect on the environment or reducing fuel consumption? One of the problems is people tend to think others have the same financial means as themselves. I could really give a rats ass about spending $25. more to fill the Expedition than the Acura, but drive the Acura because it's fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #43 December 6, 2005 >Bull - the 'commuter' crowd has more to life than just the commute. And some of us think there's more to life than what good _we_ get out of something. >How can you tell just be seeing my truck on the road to work that I'm >hauling lumber, topsoil, etc in the bed 10% of the time. I've never seen your truck on the road. I can tell here because the pickups parked in lots around here have immaculate beds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #44 December 6, 2005 QuoteI don't think many of the Hummers commuting into downtown Chicago every day (and there are lots) are driven by landscapers. The farthest off road they have ever been is the parking lot at the country club, and the most "stuff" hauled is Buffy's sleepover kit. Maybe they enjoy driving them for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane? ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites miked10270 0 #45 December 6, 2005 QuoteMaybe they enjoy driving them (Hummers) for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane?... Err... This is a SKYDIVING board!!!! Should you REALLY be criticising folk for making wasteful & unneccessary airplane rides? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #46 December 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteMaybe they enjoy driving them (Hummers) for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane?... Err... This is a SKYDIVING board!!!! Should you REALLY be criticising folk for making wasteful & unneccessary airplane rides? Mike. If they are hypocrits about it, yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #47 December 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don't think many of the Hummers commuting into downtown Chicago every day (and there are lots) are driven by landscapers. The farthest off road they have ever been is the parking lot at the country club, and the most "stuff" hauled is Buffy's sleepover kit. Maybe they enjoy driving them for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane? ... I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per mile and per year than my airplane.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #48 December 6, 2005 ...Quote I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per year than my airplane. Oh, yeah? How much you want to bet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #49 December 6, 2005 Quote ...Quote I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per year than my airplane. Oh, yeah? How much you want to bet. A gallon of gas.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #50 December 6, 2005 QuoteQuote ...Quote I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per year than my airplane. Oh, yeah? How much you want to bet. A gallon of gas. Oh shit!! Last of the big spenders, huh? OK, I drove my Expedition 300 miles in the last year. It gets about 13 MPG. All of it was hauling stuff like 5000lbs of top soil, mulch etc, and various tools like a roto-tiller. Not one drop of gas has been used on anything that could have been done with an automobile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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rehmwa 2 #39 December 5, 2005 Yes you are judging. But that's ok. But don't pretend you can read my mind and accuse me of pretending - I haven't done any of that because I'm not in the market for a vehicle right now. Also, I get a satisfaction driving my truck that's strictly just a 'feel good' response. And I like the personal convenience. That's a factor - no pretending - didn't you read the last few posts on this page? But - when the gas prices hit a certain point, I started commuting with the car instead (same time as the wife quit her job though, else we'd still have 2 vehicles with the same monthly miles to drive), and I did look into renting a truck for at least hauling the camper Our public transit sucks - it was designed by liberals and only serves the center of the metro area, not the entire metro equally for all tax payer. Wouldn't touch it with a 20 foot token. pretty high horse on this one today, afterbirth? this is important to you. I like that. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #40 December 5, 2005 QuoteIt would be quite possible to have great gas mileage, a good ride and good performance while producing very large quantitiies of NOx - they are not exclusive attributes. According to you, this would be quite satisfactory? whatever John - Others are the masters of putting false words into other's mouths, you should stick with what you do well ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #41 December 5, 2005 I just see a lot of people justifying their choice by what they do use it for 1% of the time. WHILE trying to claim they can't do anything to be more conservative of resources. Personally, I walk to work, ride my motorcycle anywhere further, and if I really need a car, I rent something like a focus....if I really need a truck, I rent one of them. Sure, occasionally I'll rent a Viper while I'm in Vegas and burn gallons a minute tearing through the desert for fun. Not using the most fuel efficient vehicle for commuting is kind of silly though, IMO. Why waste all that gas? You're right, I guess I am judging. But I don't think anyone should make you change your vehicle, other than yourself. Just trying to provoke thoughts about alternatives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #42 December 5, 2005 QuoteHave you ever done a cost comparison analysis to see how much you would save if you had a car with great fuel economy for commuting and rented a truck when you needed it? Maybe carpool or use public transit to offset your increased consumption over a more reasonable commuter vehicle? I'm not judging and saying you should be doing anything differently than you are now. But don't pretend you are doing only what is practical and aren't also considering your personal convenience. In my case, I have my Expedition, an Acura TL and the Harley. The cost of owning all 3 isn't an issue, but the "sneerers" who only saw me driving the Expedition would jump to the conclusion that I didn't care about the environment. How would Rehmwa's renting a truck instead of owning one have any effect on the environment or reducing fuel consumption? One of the problems is people tend to think others have the same financial means as themselves. I could really give a rats ass about spending $25. more to fill the Expedition than the Acura, but drive the Acura because it's fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #43 December 6, 2005 >Bull - the 'commuter' crowd has more to life than just the commute. And some of us think there's more to life than what good _we_ get out of something. >How can you tell just be seeing my truck on the road to work that I'm >hauling lumber, topsoil, etc in the bed 10% of the time. I've never seen your truck on the road. I can tell here because the pickups parked in lots around here have immaculate beds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #44 December 6, 2005 QuoteI don't think many of the Hummers commuting into downtown Chicago every day (and there are lots) are driven by landscapers. The farthest off road they have ever been is the parking lot at the country club, and the most "stuff" hauled is Buffy's sleepover kit. Maybe they enjoy driving them for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane? ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #45 December 6, 2005 QuoteMaybe they enjoy driving them (Hummers) for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane?... Err... This is a SKYDIVING board!!!! Should you REALLY be criticising folk for making wasteful & unneccessary airplane rides? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #46 December 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteMaybe they enjoy driving them (Hummers) for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane?... Err... This is a SKYDIVING board!!!! Should you REALLY be criticising folk for making wasteful & unneccessary airplane rides? Mike. If they are hypocrits about it, yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #47 December 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don't think many of the Hummers commuting into downtown Chicago every day (and there are lots) are driven by landscapers. The farthest off road they have ever been is the parking lot at the country club, and the most "stuff" hauled is Buffy's sleepover kit. Maybe they enjoy driving them for the same reason you waste gas by flying your own airplane? ... I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per mile and per year than my airplane.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #48 December 6, 2005 ...Quote I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per year than my airplane. Oh, yeah? How much you want to bet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #49 December 6, 2005 Quote ...Quote I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per year than my airplane. Oh, yeah? How much you want to bet. A gallon of gas.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 December 6, 2005 QuoteQuote ...Quote I bet your Expedition wastes more gas per year than my airplane. Oh, yeah? How much you want to bet. A gallon of gas. Oh shit!! Last of the big spenders, huh? OK, I drove my Expedition 300 miles in the last year. It gets about 13 MPG. All of it was hauling stuff like 5000lbs of top soil, mulch etc, and various tools like a roto-tiller. Not one drop of gas has been used on anything that could have been done with an automobile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
