Michele 1 #226 December 10, 2005 Quote... even if he had bi-polar , this doesnt seem like a bi-polar manic attack... No it doesn't. Not at all. A person in a manic state doesn't walk unnoticed through an airport and then all the sudden claim to have a bomb. Just doesn't work that way. I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, Linz. It's been my experience that a manic attack can, in fact, be very quiet but frantic; those who know the symptoms may in fact miss them until it's just far too late, and intervention must occur. Granted, if he was running through the airplane yelling, waving his arms, then I'd say he's past the attack stage and in full blown crisis. Which can happen very quickly, should the stressors manifest in the right order in rapid succession. If he hadn't been taking his medication for a bit of time, or if it was a new med that he hadn't gotten the levels right on yet, then something can indeed go south very quickly. I've been there, I've seen it, and I've dealt with it. Not, of course, a bomb in a bag sort of situation, but I've seen the mood lability fluctuate within hours - and when the crisis point comes, it's loud, volitile, and often incredibly destructive. So again, I'm not quite sure what you meant with your above comment, and with all due respect to you as an MD. I've just had very different experience with the illness. What I don't know is how long he had been off his med, and indeed what, if any, hs illness was. What I do know is that it is not a condition which an Air Marshal can spot, or contain, with only the barest of moments to make the decision to either shoot or not shoot. Often, brain diseases like bi-polar and depression can be very, very difficult to spot, and equally difficult to treat, manage, and survive. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #227 December 10, 2005 Quote... even if he had bi-polar , this doesnt seem like a bi-polar manic attack... No it doesn't. Not at all. A person in a manic state doesn't walk unnoticed through an airport and then all the sudden claim to have a bomb. Just doesn't work that way. linz You say that authoritatively? What do you base this on?----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #228 December 10, 2005 Quote'd just like to hear some facts about what the guy said that are not in dispute. I'm not aware of anyone actually disputing that the guy said he had a bomb, just that they did not hear him say it, while others say they definitely did hear him say it._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #229 December 10, 2005 QuoteQuote'd just like to hear some facts about what the guy said that are not in dispute. I'm not aware of anyone actually disputing that the guy said he had a bomb, just that they did not hear him say it, while others say they definitely did hear him say it. However, the only ones that say they heard him say it are the same air marshals that shot him. If he said it in the plane as was claimed, then it's odd no passengers or flight attendants can corroborate it. From the original news link: Quote After he got off the plane in Miami and went through customs, he got on the Orlando-bound plane and said he had a bomb, Air Marshal Service spokesman Dave Adams said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #230 December 10, 2005 i find it staggering that anybody is allowed to carry a gun on a plane i'd not trust a trigger happy yanky air marshall thats for sure why is it (certainly to the people i know anyway) Americans have this image of being trigger happy? Why is it we seem to lose more of our own troops to "blue on blue" incidents with the yankies than any other country? Britain lost more troops in the first gulf war to our American "friends" than we did to eye-rack troops... just about sums it all up really, once trigger happy, always trigger happy ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #231 December 10, 2005 Quote<> - No it's not. At best it's the work of your media. Terrorism has been around for yonks but it's only after America gets its first bigy (11/9) that the world is s'posed to take notice. I'm not going to disagree with you entirely, but isn't TERROR the primary goal of terrorists? Not so much destroying all of us, just our way of life. In that respect, September 11 was a very good day for terrorists. Should we as Americans apologize for not having had to deal with the effects of terrorism on a daily basis before then? Maybe we just need a little time to catch up with the rest of the you, but the truth of the matter is, I think the whole world is a little jumpy these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #232 December 10, 2005 Hi <> - No definitely not. But we all need to put it into perspective... It's not as big a deal as some people would have us believe... But the security back-lash has had a massive effect on all of our lives.... someone is making BIG money out of the fear that's been generated from 'relatively' small number of security incidents. Remember, more people die from smoking, drink driving..... Maleria!! etc... etc... and we're not scared shitless by these. The terrorists have not had to do very much work at all.... they've left it to us and they must be laughing their tits off at us..... . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #233 December 10, 2005 QuoteQuote'd just like to hear some facts about what the guy said that are not in dispute. I'm not aware of anyone actually disputing that the guy said he had a bomb, just that they did not hear him say it, while others say they definitely did hear him say it. One passenger said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' " during the uproar as the Orlando-bound flight prepared to leave Miami on Wednesday." www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051210/NEWS06/512100408/1012 www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/feeds/ap/2005/12/09/ap2381208.html He said.... she said ....... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #234 December 10, 2005 Quote One passenger said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' " during the uproar as the Orlando-bound flight prepared to leave Miami on Wednesday." www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051210/NEWS06/512100408/1012 www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/feeds/ap/2005/12/09/ap2381208.html He said.... she said .... Hey, I didn't hear it either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #235 December 11, 2005 QuoteQuote... even if he had bi-polar , this doesnt seem like a bi-polar manic attack... No it doesn't. Not at all. A person in a manic state doesn't walk unnoticed through an airport and then all the sudden claim to have a bomb. Just doesn't work that way. linz You say that authoritatively? What do you base this on? 15 years of experience in various fields of mental health.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #236 December 11, 2005 Hey Michelle. I missed your post earlier, and that's why I didn't respond to you. Sure people with Bipolar can have hypomanic episodes. It's not uncommon at all. But a person in such an episode still has control over his/her behavior though he may be impaired--the quiet but frantic attack. I shouldn't have said that it didn't sound like a person with bipolar....because anyone could be a person with bipolar. BUT for a person to be in a manic state that was sufficient to render him incapable of controlling his behavior, then I would expect him to appear more than agitated. I would not expect him to be able to get onto an airplane unnoticed. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #237 December 31, 2005 Quotepssst - I think this was a subtle way of calling you gay... sorry it took so long to get back to you...I was booted for my play on the SWAT word... Anyway I don't think he was calling me gay. He might have been, but who knows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #238 December 31, 2005 QuoteTo me the following would indicate that caution should be used before using deadly force. 1. The bag had just been inspected, so probably did not have unauthorized items. The 9/11 hijackers all passed screening. Yes, you could claim the screening is better now, but it it worth it to risk it? Quote2. The wife informed them about why hubby was acting that way. People who suffer from mental illnesses do dangerous things. Maybe not more than the rest of the populace, but just claiming a person has an illness is not a free pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ragnarok 0 #239 December 31, 2005 In Iraq, we shot insurgents for much less than this guy. He was given a chance. I would have droped him at the first hint of 'bomb' - and slept like a log that night........ And if his wife just happened to be standing too close, she would have gotten a few rounds for good measure.....wether or not she may have been pregnant._________________________________________ Twin Otter N203-Echo,29 July 2006 Cessna P206 N2537X, 19 April 2008 Blue Skies Forever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #240 December 31, 2005 and people wonder where foreigners get their perception of Americans from...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #241 December 31, 2005 Quoteand people wonder where foreigners get their perception of Americans from...... Cute that you refer to yourself as a "foreigner". . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #242 December 31, 2005 Hi, Linz. Sorry for not replying sooner. I didn't see your reply to me, as well. While I don't have the clinical experience you do, and while I completely respect your education and knowledge, I've got to say that I've seen the mood lability appear within minutes, usually triggered by an argument and/or repressed rage, but also from a phobic reaction (plane travel, claustrophobia, et cetera in this particular situation). Sometimes the lability is not noticable to those who aren't aware of the diagnosis (in this case the Marshalls), especially since they don't have a lot of time to understand what's going on. And the warning signs could be easily concealed, or fought, until the explosion occurs. While it might not be a usual reaction, I've seen it, dealt with it, and thanked God I knew what was going on or I'd've been in serious jeopardy of exacerbating an already volitile situation. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #243 December 31, 2005 QuoteIn Iraq, we shot insurgents for much less than this guy. He was given a chance. I would have droped him at the first hint of 'bomb' - and slept like a log that night........ And if his wife just happened to be standing too close, she would have gotten a few rounds for good measure.....wether or not she may have been pregnant. Just curious - has anyone besides a marshal stated that they heard a bomb threat yet?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #244 January 3, 2006 Quoteand people wonder where foreigners get their perception of Americans from...... "Well traveled" liberals from big cities. According to them, no one else travels internationally. Not intelligent or sophistimuhcated enough. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
