Rebecca 0 #176 December 9, 2005 I apologize - it was an insensitive remark made without benefit of knowing more about the situation. I hereby retract it and change it to say: "Bet he didn't think going off his meds would end this badly..." It really does suck that he died, but there was a chain of events which precipitated the shooting, starting with him (apparently) stopping his meds and getting on a plane. Had he not done either or both, things would have ended differently. Then, the bag. Odds are he wouldn't have made it through security with an actual bomb, but that's no guarantee that the guy standing in front of that air marshal DIDN'T have some kind of IED in there. Had he left it in the plane in his (apparent) panic to deboard, things would have ended differently. Then, he was (apparently) told to drop the bag - yes, he's off his meds and not up to taking orders, but the guy with the gun in front of him didn't know that. Had he dropped the bag, things would have ended differently. He didn't deserve this, not at all. But the guys doing their jobs according to their training handled the situation properly, and this was an unfortunate consequence. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #177 December 9, 2005 Edit: Not worth getting banned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #178 December 9, 2005 Ian, the fuckers responsible for 9/11's events went through security. The fucker with the shoe bomb went through security. Millions of people go through "security" every day. They don't get paid or trained anywhere close to enough for me to trust my life to them. It's not paranoia if someone really is out to get you. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #179 December 9, 2005 QuoteIan, the fuckers responsible for 9/11's events went through security. The fucker with the shoe bomb went through security why don't you look at your security proceedures instead of shooting innocent people dead then?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #180 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteIan, the fuckers responsible for 9/11's events went through security. The fucker with the shoe bomb went through security why don't you look at your security proceedures instead of shooting innocent people dead then? Gee, never thought of that... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #181 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteIan, the fuckers responsible for 9/11's events went through security. The fucker with the shoe bomb went through security why don't you look at your security proceedures instead of shooting innocent people dead then? You seem to have a solution for everything. Tell us, what would you do to make security better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #182 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteIan, the fuckers responsible for 9/11's events went through security. The fucker with the shoe bomb went through security why don't you look at your security proceedures instead of shooting innocent people dead then? You seem to have a solution for everything. Tell us, what would you do to make security better? do you say that your favourit football team needs a new coach sometimes? how can you say that if you don't know yourself how to do it better? You can know something needs to be improved, wihout knowing how to improve it yourself________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #183 December 9, 2005 Your right, TSA is a flippen joke, the training is medicore at best... they have alot of things they are looking for, and they have little time to look... what they are looking at is a few seconds of a xray .... plenty of things get past them, but alot doesnt... thats why TSA budget should be focused more to technology, instead of what they are doing.... Attached is a pic of what they see .... they have just a few seconds to scan the contents... how many of us could have a 100% success rateSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #184 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIan, the fuckers responsible for 9/11's events went through security. The fucker with the shoe bomb went through security why don't you look at your security proceedures instead of shooting innocent people dead then? You seem to have a solution for everything. Tell us, what would you do to make security better? do you say that your favourit football team needs a new coach sometimes? how can you say that if you don't know yourself how to do it better? You can know something needs to be improved, wihout knowing how to improve it yourself You implied we weren't doing anything to improve it. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #185 December 9, 2005 That COULD be a bag full of flash-bangs for all I can tell... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #186 December 9, 2005 Gee, didn't the BRITISH police recently shoot an unarmed man in a subway station because they thought HE had a bomb? Please spare me the superiority bit. The entire world is in the grip of paranoia and yes, in response to someone else, this does mean that the terrorists have won because we will never again be able discount the seriousness of a bomb threat. When it comes to bombs on airplanes, the authorities will shoot first and ask questions later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #187 December 9, 2005 QuoteEdit: Not worth getting banned. say what you want, i'll make a case to the mods for anybody who insults me not to get banned... i don't want anybody to get banned for what they say, its all good to me________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #188 December 9, 2005 QuoteGee, didn't the BRITISH police recently shoot an unarmed man in a subway station because they thought HE had a bomb? Please spare me the superiority bit. The entire world is in the grip of paranoia and yes, in response to someone else, this does mean that the terrorists have won because we will never again be able discount the seriousness of a bomb threat. When it comes to bombs on airplanes, the authorities will shoot first and ask questions later. correct, the difference is that there has been an out cry of damnation about this... the chief of police was almost forced to resign, and its just been announced that the officers involved will probably face murder charges... yet you applaud things like this________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #189 December 9, 2005 Yes because they did their job, they saved thousands of lives based on the information they had, and in the short amount of time they had to react to this information. They warned him at least 3 times... Id much rather have one dead man then thousands dead and people complaining because the marshalls let him detonate the bomb... I dont care what his problem is, his family should have not allowed him at the airport if his lack of medication was a issue... We are warned of what will happen if threats are made esp on federal govt property... the cops are trained "if you pull your weapon, be prepared to shoot" and "if you shoot, shoot to kill" .... there is no such thing as shoot to stop, so long as a man has a pulse he may have the ability to moveSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #190 December 9, 2005 I don't applaud things like this, nor do most people. The shooting is being investigated. But so far the evidence and witness testimony seems to support that the marshalls acted correctly based on the information they had at the time. Still, I feel its tragic and my heart goes out to this man's family. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #191 December 9, 2005 It's the same old shit. I was watching the Today Show this morning and Katie the dipshit was asking the "can't they shoot them in the arm" stuff. The marshalls are people of action, they reacted as they were trained, plain and simple. It's a shame the guy was shot and killed. It's an even greater shame that the guy essentially died because of his mental illness. But that doesn't change the fact that the guys actions warranted the use of deadly force. If anyone would like to discuss the use of deadly force, I'd be more than happy to, some of us live this stuff every day. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #192 December 9, 2005 QuoteI don't applaud things like this, nor do most people. The shooting is being investigated. But so far the evidence and witness testimony seems to support that the marshalls acted correctly based on the information they had at the time. Still, I feel its tragic and my heart goes out to this man's family. the difference between our system and yours is that the police who shot John Charles Demenenes (the bloke who got shot on the underground) will probably now face charges for killing an innocent man, the air marshall i suspect will not face charges for killing an innocent man________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #193 December 9, 2005 If he stated he had a bomb in the bag and refused to listen to police orders then he isnt a innocent man....Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #194 December 9, 2005 >If he stated he had a bomb in the bag and refused to listen to police >orders then he isnt a innocent man.... Crazy people are innocent even if they spout gibberish and stop listening to people. You may have to kill them anyway to prevent a (perceived) greater harm, but that doesn't mean they are guilty of anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #195 December 9, 2005 QuoteIf he stated he had a bomb in the bag and refused to listen to police orders then he isnt a innocent man.... refusing to listen to police orders doesn't get you shot in this country... i know you seem to hold the police in such high esteem in your country that they are almost gods who every word must be obeyed...but thankfully, we don't________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #196 December 9, 2005 There's more to each story. It's been longer since the London Underground shooting, so there has been more time for the police's story to be contradicted (some say he was already restrained, and was not acting suspiciously other than being dark and wearing a jeans jacket on a hot day). Give some time for more facts to come out. There were a lot of people assuming the police did the right thing with the wrong result in London too. The facts may not bear that out. After interviews with witnesses, it may well end up that they acted precipitously here, too. Or maybe not. In both cases, scared people (which can include police) making decisions in a very small amount of time are probably trying to do the right thing. But they probably won't all of the time. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #197 December 9, 2005 he can still be guilty, mentally ill people can and have been proven guilty in courts of law and they can and have and should be held accountable for their actions depending on the severity of the illness... even if he had bi-polar , this doesnt seem like a bi-polar manic attack... granted I am not a doctor, but from what I have been reading, manic attacks are generally extreme drepression that can lead to suicide or extreme highs... with way this man regardless of his mental illness acted against the law, and if he is not accountable for himself then who is?Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #198 December 9, 2005 QuoteIn both cases, scared people (which can include police) making decisions in a very small amount of time are probably trying to do the right thing. But they probably won't all of the time. You make a very valid point Wendy.... But why are they scared? Essentially, because the terrorism hype. It's been blown(!) out of all proportion and it's doing the work of the terrorists for them.... We need to step back from the edge... and fast. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #199 December 9, 2005 ......sigh...... We may not have a perfect system here but ALL police involved shootings are investigated and criminal charges are filed when deemed appropriate. This shooting is also being investigated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #200 December 9, 2005 The terrorism "hype" is the work of terrorists. Their goal is terror and the disruption of "our" way of life. They succeed more and more every single day. But, there's no easy answer that I can see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
