An open letter to Jerry Fawell.

[Tink1717 2]

Copied from, Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

AN OPEN LETTER TO JERRY FALWELL
December 2005

Dear Jerry:

Here’s some news: There is no “war on Christmas!”

I’ve seen you on various television news shows claiming that there is but, in fact, there simply isn’t. Even as I write this, millions of Americans are erecting Christmas trees and nativity scenes at their homes, and thousands of churches are planning special Christmas services.

And, if I might say so, most of them are planning their lives without getting permission or encouragement from you.

I am deeply disappointed that you have chosen a time that Christians observe as a season of peace and good will and turned it into a time of religious divisiveness and community conflict. Your “Friend or Foe” campaign may be great for fund-raising and publicity, but it has sown discord unnecessarily.

Contrary to your wild allegations, Jerry, neither Americans United, nor any other civil liberties organization that I know of, is waging any kind of war on Christmas. The First Amendment of our Constitution ensures every American’s right to observe religious holidays or to refrain from doing so. We can wish each other a “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays,” and it’s really none of your business which term we choose. We can call our decorated tree a “Christmas tree” or a “holiday tree,” and that’s our right. (We can observe the holidays of other traditions as well.)

I think we all know what’s really going on with your campaign. You want an America where there is no separation of church and state and where your rather narrow interpretation of Christianity is forced on everyone. If you can convince Americans that their cherished Christmas traditions are under fire, you think maybe they will join your nefarious crusade to tear down the protective church-state wall that guarantees our freedoms.

Well, it won’t work, Jerry. Americans are, by and large, a tolerant lot, and they are quite unlikely to join forces with someone like you who is so far out on the political and religious fringes. Many people remember the outrageous comments you made after the 9/11 terrorist assaults, suggesting that America had it coming because of our (in your opinion) sinful ways. They also remember your dire warning that Tinky Winky, a kids’ TV character, was brainwashing our children into homosexuality! You can’t rehabilitate an image like that by trying to depict yourself as Father Christmas.

I am particularly outraged that you are attacking our public schools as part of your misguided project. Our public schools serve children from 2,000 different faith traditions and some who follow no spiritual path at all. They generally do a tremendous job of helping each of these students without imposing any particular religious viewpoint. They steer a careful course, broadly allowing student religious expression while trying to avoid school endorsement of specific faiths. That means there are sometimes disagreements about what songs should be sung in the winter concert or what decorations should go in the hall. We can work through those decisions by applying common sense, the Constitution and plain old civility.

Thanks to the crusade by you and your allies, however, some of these schools are being targeted for venomous attacks. After the Alliance Defense Fund unfairly maligned a public school in New York for its holiday observance policies, education officials there received hateful mail of all sorts. One e-mail said "You are either bigoted Jews who hate Christians or mindless secularists."

Since I debated you about the Christmas issue on Fox News Channel’s “O’Reilly Factor,” I have received 66 nasty e-mails, including two death threats. Observed one of my correspondents, “Hope you die soon. Merry Christmas.”

Jerry, this is the kind of interfaith and community hostility that you are stirring up, and I implore you to stop it now. You are polluting the public square with animosity and anger. And at Christmas, of all times!! Have you no decency?

You’ve dubbed your latest round of antics a “Friend or Foe” campaign. Well, Jerry, I am a friend of the Constitution and a foe of intolerance. You should be too.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.



Let the shitblizzard begin.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[rushmc 23]

They are right! There is no war on Christmas. What is really going on is a war against Christians.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ReBirth 0]

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They are right! There is no war on Christmas. What is really going on is a war against Christians.

Yes...the Christians are being persecuted again. Probably the filthy jews behind it all.

I love the cries of the persecuted majority.

[narcimund 0]

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a war against Christians.

The word "war" used to mean something important like thousands of people killing thousands of other people.

Now it applies whenever someone feels slightly put upon or wants to use their victimhood for political propoganda.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[wmw999 2,534]

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You want an America where there is no separation of church and state and where your rather narrow interpretation of Christianity is forced on everyone

I think the deal is that a lot of people want "normal" to be "people like them." That way everyone else, be they Jewish, Muslim, whatever, is not normal or usual, which means that you don't have to know or learn as much about them. It's comfortable when you have your coat wrapped around you, and part of that coat is an acknowledgement that what is important to you is important to the country.

Everyone likes to be special.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,070]

>What is really going on is a war against Christians.

Right! That poor, defenseless, oppressed majority is really being slaughtered. Churches are being burned, people are being stoned, christians are being fed to lions and crosses are being taken down and replaced by big pictures of Al Franken and Michael Moore.

[Channman 2]

>I love the cries of the persecuted majority.

Hey, you should know how it feels with that big Red Nose, people laughing and calling you names.

I'm going to set up a manger scene in down town Houston, just because I can. HEEEHEEEHEEE. See it turns out its not who you are but who you know. ACLU look what I'm doing...what are you going to do about it. NOTHING

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

[wmw999 2,534]

As an individual, who is paying for it himself, on private property you have permission to use -- wonderful.

There's a hobby shop locally that is closed on Sundays so their employees can enjoy the Sabbath with their families. Nothing wrong with that, either.

You have the right to pay for most religious expressions you want to (sacrifice is probably frowned on). But you don't have the right to have every single person accept it as normal, usual, etc, and to not be offended by it. If they come and harangue you, they're being asshats. Just as you would be if you were to harangue someone from some other religion under similar circumstances.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[miked10270 0]

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The word "war" used to mean something important like thousands of people killing thousands of other people.

Now it applies whenever someone feels slightly put upon or wants to use their victimhood for political propoganda.

Yep! Welcome the the "New English"!

Words change. Take "SLIGHTED" as an example; Now it means a small insult or being ignored. It used to mean destroyed or rendered useless back in medieval times whan castles were "Slighted".

Languages change.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[narcimund 0]

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Languages change.

That aphorism is true but the comparison is lousy.

The problem with your analysis is that when someone uses "slighted" in a sentence, there's no ambiguity. "War" on the other hand has a clear modern meaning which is NOT what this speaker is actually describing.

This is just ridiculous hyperbole. Nothing more interesting than that.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[miked10270 0]

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Languages change.

That aphorism is true but the comparison is lousy.

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No, the comparison is accurate. Slighted is a word whose use has changed over time from it's original very serious meaning to something almost completley diluted. It appears that war (like many other words) may be undergoing a similar dilution or change of meaning.

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The problem with your analysis is that when someone uses "slighted" in a sentence, there's no ambiguity.

No ambiguity NOW! But would you admit to a time between when "Slighted" meant utter destruction and now when it means a minor insult? Is it possible or even likely that the word "WAR" is in a similar period of change?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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[narcimund 0]

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Is it possible or even likely that the word "WAR" is in a similar period of change?

Whether it is or isn't is not relevant. This is a case of intentional hyperbole. Nothing more or less.

If 25 years from now everyone uses the word "war" to sincerely mean something minor like a papercut is academic but has nothing to do with this man's 2005 usage which is ridiculous.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[quade 4]

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Whether it is or isn't is not relevant. This is a case of intentional hyperbole. Nothing more or less.

Are you kidding me?!?

THAT'S THE ABSOLUTE BIGGEST PIECE OF HYPERBOLE THAT HAS EVER EXISTED SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME!!!!!!1111ONE11111!!!!OMFGWTFBBQ!!!!1111!!!!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Falwell is despicable.

Hate pays and this man prays and preys on hate.

While I do believe in the First Amendment and a clear wall between Church and State, I wish there was SOMETHING that could be done to silence this fraud.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pirana 0]

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***
Everyone likes to be special.

Wendy W.

Yep. Everybody wants to be special, just like everybody else. Or, put another way:

When everybody is somebody,
Nobody is anybody.

The next stage is war.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rushmc 23]

Not looking for pitty or anything else so keep your sarcasm........

It is happening if you care to look at the facts. Just because the extreem seperationists have been allowed (and supported by the media) to frame the debate in thier favor doesn't change the facts......which are out there...........if you care to open your eyes to see them..........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,070]

>Just because the extreem seperationists have been allowed (and
>supported by the media) to frame the debate in thier favor doesn't
>change the facts......

Here are the facts.

Stores can call christmas whatever they want. They call it christmas if it makes them more money. They call it the holidays if THAT makes them more money. That's capitalism, not a "war on Christmas."

People can call christmas whatever they want. If they call it christmas, they are not right wing nuts. If they call it a holiday, they are not militant christmas-hating secularists. That's free speech, not a "war on Christmas."

The government can call the holiday whatever it wants. It can call it christmas if it wants; it can call it the holiday season if it wants - AS LONG AS they don't force anyone to _do_ anything about it. That's our First Amendment at work, not a "war on Christmas."

But them facts don't do much for your cause if you want to appear like a poor, downtrodden minority, bullied by the mean secularists. So people like O'Reilly make it out to be a WAR ON CHRISTMAS. Another case of free speech in action! He's free to say it even if it's idiotic.

[narcimund 0]

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Here are the facts....

This rampant reasonableness must be STOPPED immediately!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Erroll 80]

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Here are the facts....

This rampant reasonableness must be STOPPED immediately!

Are you suggesting a war on reasonableness???

[rehmwa 2]

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The word "war" used to mean something important like thousands of people killing thousands of other people.

Now it applies whenever someone feels slightly put upon or wants to use their victimhood for political propoganda.

Nice point, this is a practice used by nuts all across the political spectrum that drives me nuts, personally. A position can important without having to pose it as THE GREAT SOCIAL ISSUE OF OUR TIMES

Let's make a list of very strong words that had deliberate and strongly defined meanings which are frequently misapplied in order to solicit emotional unreasonablenss on subjects that aren't nearly worthy of using those words or phrases.

"War" (against Christmas)
"Rape" (of the environment)
"Refugees" (from a bad restaurant)
"Torture" (etc, etc, etc)
"Addiction"
"Tragedy"
"Disenfranchise"
"Freedom of Speech"
"Civil Rights"
"Racism"

All of these have very important meanings and the nutbags keep diluting them by using them to overstate their cases.

oh, THE HUMANITY

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Tink1717 2]

Yeah, right. You X-tains are in control of the house, senate, white house and SCOTUS. You are in control of the most powerful military in human history, could vaporize then planet at the push of a button, and yet you're persecuted wherever you go. Boo fucking hoo.

You stand as the principal enemy of all social, moral and scientific progress and when called on it, cry persecution. Yeah, right. Your religion authored the crusades, the inquisition, the holocaust, northern Ireland and the thirty years war, and you have the the balls to cry persecution 'cause you can't use the secular state as a recruiting tool for your church? WTF? You guys have been the persecutors for over 1500 years now. When will you have enough?

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[pajarito 0]

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Your religion authored the crusades

I'll just pick one part of your rant. The Crusades were not "authored" by Christians. They began in defense against Islamic agression. What they did with it is another story but they did not start it.

[billvon 3,070]

>They began in defense against Islamic agression.

You're kidding, right? I know you are a better student of history than that.

From about 600-1000AD, Muslims controlled the Holy land, but allowed Christians to make pilgrimages to Jerusalem. In the 11th century, the Seljuk Turks took over Jerusalem and stopped the pilgrimages.

Pope Urban II didn't like this, and called for a crusade to go and wrest control of the Holy Land back from the Turks. He convinced Emperor Alexus to support him, and the Crusades began.

The equivalent today would be Mexico closing its borders, and the US invading so they still had access to Cancun - then calling it "a defense against Mexican aggression."

[pajarito 0]

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The Crusades were something very different. From its beginnings Christianity has always forbidden coerced conversion of any kind. Conversion by the sword, therefore, was not possible for Christianity. Unlike jihad, the purpose of the Crusades was neither to expand the Christian world nor to expand Christianity through forced conversions.

Instead, the Crusades were a direct and belated response to centuries of Muslim conquests of Christian lands. The immediate event that sparked the First Crusade was the Turkish conquest of all of Asia Minor in the 1070s through 1090s.

The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II in 1095 in response to an urgent plea for help from the Byzantine emperor in Constantinople. Urban called the knights of Christendom to come to the aid of their Eastern brethren.

What the Crusades Were Really Like

[GTAVercetti 0]

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The Crusades were something very different. From its beginnings Christianity has always forbidden coerced conversion of any kind. Conversion by the sword, therefore, was not possible for Christianity. Unlike jihad, the purpose of the Crusades was neither to expand the Christian world nor to expand Christianity through forced conversions.

Instead, the Crusades were a direct and belated response to centuries of Muslim conquests of Christian lands. The immediate event that sparked the First Crusade was the Turkish conquest of all of Asia Minor in the 1070s through 1090s.

The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II in 1095 in response to an urgent plea for help from the Byzantine emperor in Constantinople. Urban called the knights of Christendom to come to the aid of their Eastern brethren.

What the Crusades Were Really Like

Gee, catholic.org saying the crusades were not that bad.

I guess the books I read about the horrible atrocities committed by Christians during them were all wrong.

Now, personally, I don't hold any christians today accountable but come on, they were not a good thing, even if most of them were failures.

There is simply no reason to defend them or many other actions of the early church. A simple, 'that was stupid, glad we learned from that" will suffice.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.