Michele 1 #1 December 11, 2005 Apparently, the word is out on the streets that if Stanley "Tookie" Williams is executed by lethal injection next Tuesday, there will be rioting. http://www.pensitoreview.com/2005/11/23/america-turns-blue/?p=1506 From the link: The LA Weekly reports that the word is out in the “gang-osphere” that if Crips founder Tookie Williams is executed on Dec. 13, angry mobs are set to riot once again in Los Angeles: “Took die, the city fry,” said Raymond “The Hatchet Man” Locket, a member of the West Side Harlem Crips, who says he knew Tookie back in the day. “That’s the word on the streets.” http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/12/10/WILLIAMS.TMP From the San Francisco Chronicle: "If they kill him, there is going to be a riot," said hair stylist Shelton Carter, 43, as he stood at the checkout counter of the West-Vern Liquor & Deli store in an area known as the "Rolling 40s" or "40 Crips," gang lingo that has been adopted even by the police. "I know that he was wrong, but he wrote books and has taken up the cause of stopping gang violence. How is he going to do that if he is dead" Williams was convicted of murdering 4 people in the late 70's, and was sentenced to death during his trial in 1984. He has run his appeals, and the clemency appeal is in front of Governor Schwarzenegger. A group of celebrity activists, including such "luminaries" as Bianca Jaggar, have been protesting outside San Quentin in hopes of...well, doing something. Williams has, you see, been nominated for the Nobel Peace prize for his work in trying to prevent gang violence, and has written 9 children's books. What's also true is that he is the undisputed founder of Los Angeles' notorious "Crips" street gang, which has not only been responsible for thousands of murders, but also has spread to other states, bringing their own special brand of violence with them. Schwarzenegger has not yet ruled on the clemency request, having a hearing with attorneys both pro and con last Thursday. I likely wouldn't have given this story too much credence, but with recent radio appearances by some local 'representatives' calling for rioting, as well as city leaders requesting calm should Williams be executed, I am no longer too sure the riots won't happen. It's Christmas. There are lots of goods in the stores and in people's homes. There is ample opportunity for crime at this time of year, let alone a riotous mob. Having lived here through the 92 riots, I can honestly say that I am not at all looking forward to next week...I will have a full tank of gas, as well as a stocked fridge, should the worst occur. And I most certainly hope that we don't handle it like a) 92's riots or b) France's riots a few months ago. But I was wondering what you all thought about the rumors of rioting. It might be nothing more than some scaremongering...but it might not be. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #2 December 11, 2005 Silly negroes. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #3 December 11, 2005 QuoteSilly negroes. Walt Tricks are for kids! mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #4 December 11, 2005 bunch of apes________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #5 December 11, 2005 Quote Williams was convicted of murdering 4 people in the late 70's, I find it interesting that no news outlet mentioned just how he murdered those 4 people. Murder 1 QuoteCoward and Sims then followed Williams and Darryl to the 7-Eleven market located at 10437 Whittier Boulevard, in Pico Rivera, California. The store clerk, twenty-six year old Albert Lewis Owens, was sweeping the store parking lot. When Darryl and Sims entered the 7-Eleven, Owens put the broom and dust pan he was using on the hood of his car and followed them into the store. Williams and Coward followed Owens into the store. As Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens, pulling the sawed-off shotgun from under his jacket and told Owens to “shut up and keep walking.” While pointing the shotgun at Owens’ back, Williams directed him to a back storage room. Not long after, Williams blew out a security camera and then killed Owens, shooting him twice in the back at point blank range as he lay prone on the storage room floor. The pathologist who conducted the autopsy on Owens testified that the end of the barrel was “very close” to Owens’ body when he was shot. One of the two wounds was described as “a near contact wound.” After Williams murdered Owens, he, Darryl, Coward and Sims fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. The robbery netted Williams and his associates approximately $120.00. Once back in Los Angeles, Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens. Williams said that he “didn’t want to leave any witnesses.” Williams also said he killed Owens “because he was white and he was killing all white people.” Coward claims that Williams bragged about killing Owens. Williams said, “You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him.” Williams then made gurgling or growling noises and laughed about Owens’ death. Murders 2,3,4Quote The Yang family, who were immigrants from Taiwan, included husband Yen-Yi Yang and wife Tsai-Shai Yang who were well above their sixties. One of their children, Yee-Chen Lin had recently joined them from Taiwan. The family worked together operating and maintaining a motel called the Brookhaven in South Central Los Angeles. At approximately 5:00 am on March 11, 1979, court transcripts show that Stanley Williams entered the Brookhaven Motel at 10411 South Vermont Avenue. After entering the public lobby area, Williams broke down the door that led to the private office. Once inside the private office, Williams, using his shotgun, killed seventy-six year old Yen-I Yang; Williams also killed Yang’s wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang; lastly, Williams killed Yang’s daughter, forty-three year old Yee-Chen Lin. Williams then removed the currency from the cash register and fled the location. Robert Yang, son of Yen-Yi and Tsai-Shai, was asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the Brookhaven Motel when he was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel’s office. This sound was immediately followed by the sound of his mother or sister screaming, followed by gun shots. When Robert entered the motel office he found his mother, his sister, and his father had all been shot. Robert observed that the cash register was open and money was missing. It was later determined that the robbery of the Brookhaven Motel and the murder of the three members of the Yang family netted Stanley Williams approximately one hundred dollars. According to the forensic pathologist, Yen-I Yang suffered two shotgun wounds. One shotgun wound was to his left arm and abdomen. This wound shredded Yen-I’s left arm, fractured his ribs, and shattered his spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. The other shotgun wound was to the lower left chest. This wound also fractured ribs and shattered the spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. Moreover, a plastic shotgun shot container and associated wadding were recovered from the base of Yen-I’s liver. The pathologist further explained that both of the Yen-I Yang’s wounds were inflicted when the end of the muzzle was only feet from Yen-I’s body. Yee-Chen Lin was shot once in the upper left face area at a distance of a few feet. She was transported from the scene by paramedics to Centinela Hospital where she died at 7:36 am. Tsai-Shai was shot twice at close range. The pathologist explained that one shotgun wound was to the coccyx or tail bone. Based on the physical characteristics of the wound and the fact that wadding, along with the plastic shot container, were recovered just beneath the skin of this wound, the muzzle of the gun must have been just inches from her body when she was shot and killed. The other shotgun wound was to the anterior abdomen with the charge entering at the navel. At trial, the pathologist testified that the muzzle of the gun was a few feet from Tsai-Shai’s body when the shot that caused this wound was fired. Williams referred to the victims in conversations with friends as "Buddha-heads", although there was no evidence that the murders were religiously motivated. If anybody is a candidate for the death penalty, it's this guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #6 December 11, 2005 I was aware of how he murdered and made fun of his victims, similarly to Karla Fay Tucker. I also agree that he is a prime candidate for the death penalty. I further agree that his deeds since his incarceration do not ameliorate his actions. And lastly, I also contend that the Gov. needs to uphold the law... What I find interesting is the threat of rioting from those in my city if he does, indeed, get executed. It is, imho, a form of blackmail which can be deadly...and it indeed does incite violence (which is against the law). Perhaps the threats are empty...and perhaps they are not. Gov. Schwarzenegger has apparently announced he will make a decision today...I suppose we will see what happens. I just don't like considering my city in flames again, with innocent people getting killed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #7 December 11, 2005 I'm glad you posted that. I searched for that info and couldn't find it. Michele's posting deserved a more thoughtful response than what I posted but this is a very difficult case to discuss intelligently. The guy is a scumbag. I don't think anyone could seriously question that. He's not convicted of being a scumbag, though. He is convicted of murder. Was the evidence truly compelling enough to not only convict the guy but give him the death penalty? I don't know. I have very mixed feeling about the death penalty because of my feelings toward the government that hands it out. That's not what most of Wiliams' supporters seem to be arguing, though. They are arguing that Williams, who founded the Crips gang, is now a really great guy because he is has changed his views to being anti-gang. Does it occur to these people that what they are saying is the equivanlent of claiming that someone beating them with a bat is an ok guy as soon as he stops? People threatening to riot if Williams dies are scumbags like Williams. They are trying to hold the State of California hostage with threats of violence. That cannot be tolerated. Let 'em riot. Let them suffer the consequences. One thing is for sure. If Williams is executed, the last moments of his life will be a real walk in the park compared to the last moments spent by those people he is convicted of killing. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #8 December 11, 2005 Quotebunch of apes That is really insulting toward the apes of the world. They are criminals threatening violence in retaliation for the execution of a convicted murderer. They are hardly better than Williams. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #9 December 11, 2005 Here is another article with more information about him. Quotehttp://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20380 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #10 December 11, 2005 surely the "crips" and the other gang (name escapes me) aren't still going are they? how cute lots of silly kids running around in bandanas, thinking they're rappers, all talking in that hackneyd way that rappers do...with the pretend lisp and the yankey drawl silly little boys________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveStMarys 0 #11 December 12, 2005 OOOOOH they are out there and badder then ever. The guy should fry, but its interesting how much press he is getting. You do the crime, you do the time whether it is here on earth or in the here after. I do realize that people change while waiting, how many odd years(?), for the sentence to be played out, but.................. BobbiA miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #12 December 12, 2005 Makes as much sense as the rioting after the Rodney King verdictMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #13 December 12, 2005 QuoteQuotebunch of apes That is really insulting toward the apes of the world. They are criminals threatening violence in retaliation for the execution of a convicted murderer. They are hardly better than Williams. Walt Actually the current term would be terrorists. Treat them as terrorists that they are and there will be no riots. Why with the Patriot Act, we don't even need to charge them with a crime, just detain and hold indefinately.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #14 December 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotebunch of apes That is really insulting toward the apes of the world. They are criminals threatening violence in retaliation for the execution of a convicted murderer. They are hardly better than Williams. Walt Actually the current term would be terrorists. That is a very interesting observation. They are threatening civilian populations to further their political agenda. I think they meet the criteria for being considered domestic terrorists. QuoteTreat them as terrorists that they are and there will be no riots. Why with the Patriot Act, we don't even need to charge them with a crime, just detain and hold indefinately. I'm not sure that's true, but the US government seems absolutely frightened of dealing with angry minorities so it doesn't matter whether they can legally detain them without charging them with a crime. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #15 December 12, 2005 Without a doubt they meet the definition of terrorist. If we can outlaw the ELF, surely we can take the same actions against those that threaten to burn down a city, kill many, and destroy property just to prevent the lawful (right or not) execution of a POS.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #16 December 12, 2005 >Without a doubt they meet the definition of terrorist. And thus we see how the Patriot Act provisions creep into mainstream law. Hey, if we can imprison terrorists without a trial, why not domestic terrorists? After all - why wait until they actually burn the city down before we take action? Why not protect the law-abiding citizens and take action BEFORE they do something like this? It only makes sense. And those people protesting outside the courthouse - some of THEM are the same people who said they would burn the city. Why not arrest them where we can find them, at least until after the execution? That would be safer for all involved. No reason to give people like that more rights than terrorists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #17 December 12, 2005 Considering the overflow in our local jails, I'm not sure that it's a feasible solution...but I also think that it should work. Does anyone know if that's a local jurisdiction or a federal one? It would seem to me to be a federal one, but I just don't know. At the very least, it is against the local law of inciting a riot. Schwarzenegger has not yet made public his decision. Should he refrain from deciding, or decide to not overturn the sentence, then Stanley "Tookie" Williams will be executed at 12:01 tonight/Tuesday morning. Schwarzenegger might be withholding his decision until late this evening so as to not inflame those who would riot...allowing people to get home from work to perhaps prevent another Reginald Denny situation...but I am in pure speculation mode. The California Surpeme Court has denied the last minute appeals, and the 9th Curcuit has not yet ruled on the appeals before them. Additional city council members have made an appeal to their constituants to remain calm, and have asked that churches and other centers of gathering remain open tonight so people can "talk" rather than riot. And I've heard the rumor that all leave and vacation has been cancelled for the cops, so as to have as many officers on the street as possible. I just dunno. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #18 December 12, 2005 BillV get's it. Michele, there is no need to worry about the local jails. We can send them to Eastern Europe, via secret CIA transport and we'll really be able to get the info out of them there.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #19 December 12, 2005 Quote And those people protesting outside the courthouse - some of THEM are the same people who said they would burn the city. Why not arrest them where we can find them, at least until after the execution? That would be safer for all involved. No reason to give people like that more rights than terrorists. Hey, if they're not with us they're against us, so they ARE terrorists. They have no rights - ship 'em off to the Gulag.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #20 December 12, 2005 i just find it hilarious that Arnold swartzen..whatever is actually the governor of California. Are the people of California so fucked in the head that they seriously think its a good idea to have that meat head in power? please tell me they are in on the joke themselves and just did it for a laugh The Terminator actually now has the power of life and death for real... only in America ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 December 12, 2005 Quotei just find it hilarious that Arnold swartzen..whatever ....that meat head Yup, strange and hilarious - Since I don't know the man personally like the rest of you, I'll have to make some guesses based on what little I know of the man (not of the characters he played) - an immigrant - worked hard to be the best in his work (bodybuilding) - worked hard to be one of the best in his later work (action actor). This is validated by how some people can't seem to separate who he is from the roles he played - he must have been very convincing for the average joe to think he's actually a terminator from the future - was able to be successful in Hollywood without having to pose falsely to their political litmus test - thought it would be good to serve the public in government - seems to be working to do his best even in that role in a very divisive political arena like California Yup, whatever your politics, I can see how an immigrant that's shown his success in his various life endeavors would be a terrible person to be in government. Much better that that the people of california have some career politician or ex-reverend leading the way. Next thing you know, we'll be voting in farmers and engineers and doctors and laborers. Help us, helps us, the government will be overrun with real working class people trying to do their best.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #22 December 12, 2005 Right on, Rehmwa. Regardless of politics, Ahnold is an impressive guy who's had his eye on the ball the whole way. He knew before he ever got here that Hollywood was his land of opportunity, and he made it work for him. I say rock on. The "American Dream" is alive and well in this guy, though I do not envy him the position he's in right now... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 December 12, 2005 Thanks, but he's hardly 'working class' - that was a wild stretch of anyone's imagination. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #24 December 12, 2005 QuoteThanks, but he's hardly 'working class' - that was a wild stretch of anyone's imagination. No, he's not working class NOW, but he wasn't exactly born with a silver spoon in his mouth, groomed for a life of politics among the upper-crusties. He had to work. Besides, I never said anything about class.. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #25 December 12, 2005 Terminator has denied Tookie's request for clemency. Bluto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
