Sen.Blutarsky 0 #1 December 17, 2005 So much for our more civilized cousins. Shouldn't young offenders receive psychological treatments instead? From the Beeb: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4536358.stm Q&A: Indeterminate sentences An 18-year-old man has been given a life sentence for setting two bins on fire in north Devon. Although only causing a few pounds damage, Christopher Brown was given an indeterminate sentence after he threatened to commit more crimes if he was released. BBC News asks how such a seemingly minor offence can have such a grave consequence. What does indeterminate sentencing mean? The new power was instituted as part of so-called public protections measures in the Criminal Justice Act 2003 and has been used since April, 2005. In addition to being able to extend licence time for other crimes, judges were given the power to set indeterminate sentences. Under this sentence, a minimum tariff for incarceration is handed down but the defendant must satisfy the authorities that he or she is fit for release and does not pose any threat to the community. Why was the power introduced? The new sentence means that individuals considered to be a threat can be locked up even if their specific crime was not particularly serious. Although Brown set fire to two wheelie bins, the offence he was charged with, arson, carries a maximum life sentence. The new powers are triggered if this is the case. Because Brown said he was likely to commit more crime, the judge assessed he was a threat to the public. Does indeterminate effectively mean life behind bars? Not necessarily. Should the defendant no longer be considered to pose a threat to the public, then he will be released. But he faces life on licence meaning that, potentially, his movements will be subject to variety of conditions. Critics have dubbed these licensing conditions as "super ASBOs" (Anti Social Behaviour Orders). What rights do defendants have? They can appeal being on licence every 10 years and also have the usual routes of appeal. But they will serve the minimum tariff. What do the prison reform lobby think? There are concerns that vulnerable people who need help may find themselves locked up for years despite having not committed serious crimes. Tough licence conditions could see defendants going back to jail after release. Critics also fear spells in jail may make vulnerable cases even worse, where they become a potentially bigger threat to the public should they be released. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/4536358.stm Published: 2005/12/16 19:47:52 GMT © BBC MMV Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #2 December 17, 2005 1. As a former native you'll never see me calling them more civilized. 2. Previous to this there was a sentence "at her majesties pleasure" or something similar - it amounted to the same thing - you're staying there til we decide otherwise. I seem to recall it being under discussion at some point in the early 90s. There were a couple of young violent offenders trying to get out of that sentence. Thats about all i recall about it. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #3 December 17, 2005 I can see it coming: steal a loaf of bread and you get a free trip to a former colony.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #4 December 17, 2005 Do I get to pick the colony? I'll take a ticket to Australia or NZ please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adriandavies 0 #5 December 17, 2005 Tony Blair has also just been talking about a law which allows for action to be taken BEFORE a child commits a crime. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #6 December 17, 2005 i think the rising tide of ASBO's and anti social behaviour has shown that innocent until proven guilty just doesn't work________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #7 December 17, 2005 There's nothing to say he won't receive support toward rehabilitation during incarceration. Alternatively, he may "grow up" a bit & work out that setting fire to otherpeople's stuff isn't good. At present, the Guy (excuse the bonfire night pun!) has said he's going to keep setting stuff on fire 'cos he likes to! FINE! The Guy'll be kept out of the way until he changes his mind! In effect, how long he stays locked up is effectively up to him! It certainly sounds more flexible than ANOTHER COUNTRY'S "3 crimes means automatic life sentence!" Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 December 17, 2005 Hey, Sen....... our old fart judges make mistakes (just like they do in all countries) and in this case they may have appeared to throw away the key .... but at least they haven't thrown away a person (life).... this decision can be reversed at ANY TIME but a capital sentence NEVER CAN....... just my 0.02 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #9 December 18, 2005 in reply to "At present, the Guy (excuse the bonfire night pun!) has said he's going to keep setting stuff on fire 'cos he likes to! FINE." ............................................. Some-one should give this burner guy a job . If he likes lighting fires and is good at it then he'd be right at home as an Aussie firelighter ... er I mean firefighter. The Rural fire brigades in the OZ bush are responsible for more hectares burnt due to back burning than a natural fire could ever accomplish. Big bad fires over here are usually lit by pyro cattlemen or well meaning firebrigades.... or by payback from last years fires. Your incarcerated pyro dude would fit right in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #10 December 18, 2005 <> TeHe.... so would send our villans to Oz (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 December 18, 2005 Quote At present, the Guy (excuse the bonfire night pun!) has said he's going to keep setting stuff on fire 'cos he likes to! FINE! The Guy'll be kept out of the way until he changes his mind! In effect, how long he stays locked up is effectively up to him! It certainly sounds more flexible than ANOTHER COUNTRY'S "3 crimes means automatic life sentence!" But you have to commit felonies to get that life sentence. Burning trash is likely to stay in the misdomeanor category. The point of probationary release is to let people prove they've changed. But there's little tolerance for screwups in that period. This guy hardly seems so dangerous that it can't be used. Instead you have it set up that he must prove he's not a risk. Nothing to be happy about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #12 December 18, 2005 Quotein reply to "At present, the Guy (excuse the bonfire night pun!) has said he's going to keep setting stuff on fire 'cos he likes to! FINE." ............................................. If he likes lighting fires and is good at it then he'd be right at home as an Aussie firelighter ... er I mean firefighter. Your incarcerated pyro dude would fit right in. Great Idea... Regrettably, some time after YOUR forefathers sailed to Oz, the whole "Transportation - 7 years wiff hard labour!" was quietly dropped from the English Statute Books. The upside of this is that Ozzers can now re-integrate into civilised society... But we prefer this re-integration to be gradual & minimise the culture shock for all our former convicts! Hence we generally employ them as BarStaff so that they remain close to booze & drunks complaining about "T' Guvinmint" and thus feel at home. Mike. Edited to add to Kelpie: QuoteBut you have to commit felonies to get that life sentence. Burning trash is likely to stay in the misdomeanor category. Depends on whose trash it is! Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #13 December 18, 2005 Quotei think the rising tide of ASBO's and anti social behaviour has shown that innocent until proven guilty just doesn't work Your post is redundant, your posting history has already illustrated your point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #14 December 20, 2005 QuoteI can see it coming: steal a loaf of bread and you get a free trip to a former colony. Ha, like we'd accept them these days!! They don't bathe (we're in a really bad drought and still manage to shower once a day!), think they're God's gift to sport for having won a cricket competition only once in twenty-three years, and let's not even start on the monarchy (least we can say Princess Mary has good dress sense and is beloved!). But all digs and jokes aside, the largest group of illegal immigrants in Australia are UK citizens!! xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #15 December 20, 2005 QuoteThey don't bathe... Yes we bloody do - at least once a year whether we need to or not! Quote... let's not even start on the monarchy... Yeah... Better not! Considering that historians have traced the RIGHTFUL HEIR to British Throne! Quote... the largest group of illegal immigrants in Australia are UK citizens!! "Australian English" is famously limited in vocabulary. Perhaps you're confusing "Illegal Immigrants" wiff "Colonial Administrators"? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheebz 0 #16 December 20, 2005 I think something has to be done....a gang of little shits burgled my house then decided to steal my new car. Their self styled gang leader was electronically tagged and he had spray painted his nickname on my garage door, then a week later trashed my classic 1969 beatle because they couldn't get it started. Suffice to say the police said they couldn't prove the tagged lad was anywhere near my house I wash in a tin bath in the garden once a month...what's wrong with that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #17 December 20, 2005 I always thought that "Law .303"was used quite effectively by the British troops during the Boer war Good thing its kind of passe nowMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #18 December 23, 2005 Quote "Law .303" LMAO!xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
