Brokeback mountain...

[AlexCrowley 0]

I'm substituting RhondaLee and suddenly feel a great deal less tolerant.

Save the sociopaths!

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[sundevil777 102]

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How silly of me not to realise that homosexuality and incest are intrinsically linked.

I understand that you think it is not a logical extension of gay rights.

Whether or not you think they ae linked, are you OK with it? Some are, I think the vast majority are not, including the vast majority of those who agree that all of the rights that gays demand should be granted.

Sarcasm is one way to avoid answering the question.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jakee 1,500]

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including the vast majority of those who all of the rights that gays demand.

What?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[sundevil777 102]

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including the vast majority of those who all of the rights that gays demand.

What?

I had a few missing words...post fixed.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[AlexCrowley 0]

dat dere is god fearing conservative talk. It's not like your liberal english.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Guest]

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You seemed to be obsessed with the idea that people who dissagree with your lifestlyle HATE you.

Tolerance <> Approval

Lack of approval <> Intolerance

That's something a lot of gays don't want to get.

It's you who does not get it.

I'm not gay, but I can speak as someone who makes certain choices of which others do not approve. I don't need your approval. Just don't interfere in the way I live my life. That's all. Just mind your own business, and don't pass any legislation that prevents me from doing things that have no effect on you.

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If they did, it would take a lot of the so-called "gay rights" agenda away, and we couldn't have that, now could we? If everybody got it, there wouldn't be an "oppressed victim of vicious, brutal society", or any poster children (see Jasper, WY incident) anymore.

You can write off Matthew Shepard as a "poster child"? With a straight face?

You've contradicted your own point, Mark, whether you realize it or not. Tolerance is not approval. Tolerance is minding your own fucking business and allowing others to live as they choose without your interference. Matthew Shepard not only did not get to live as he chose, he didn't even get to live.

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Riddle me this: say there is a constitutional amendment guaranteeing everything that this tiny, noisy minority wants. All of the special, preferential treatment that is being shrilly demanded is granted by it, and gays by law now have all the adoration they insist is their birthright (after all, they're such fashion-conscious contributors of culture [see Queer-Eye, et al, ad nauseam]) What happens then? What will they demand next?

mh

Being treated like every other lawful citizen of this country is not preferential treatment.

Using colorful and emotive language and more than a couple of fallacies doesn't make your point, btw, but it does make you appear to have an axe to grind.

So here's what I want you to do: substitute "skydiver" or "basejumper" for "gay." And then tell me if you want imposed on you the restrictions you would impose on someone else. Tell me if what you want is approval or just to be left alone to do as you will.

rl

I want what I believe the majority of people want - to be left alone, and not have my culture, religion, beliefs and way of life assaulted on a continuous basis by a noisy little minority that has a voice far out of proportion to its numbers, and as with many things in our society, has reverence and merit that they haven't earned and don't deserve.

Edit to add: I really couldn't care what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms - just get it out of my face, that's all I ask. But by default, that makes me "INTOLERANT! (tm), and THAT is what I object to, not private conduct.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[RhondaLea 4]

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Some will say that because this is not a common occurrence/people are not widely campaigning for this 'right', it is not a relevant/valid comparison. But I think it is a logical extension of gay rights.

Actually, exactly what it isn't is a "logical extension" of gay rights. What it is, exactly, is a fallacy in reasoning, although in this case, it's actually more than a single fallacy. I'm impressed.

Two links for you:

The Fallacy Files

and

Critical Thinking on the Web

But in the end, you're right. If it's between consenting adults, it may be a lot of things, but first and foremost, it is not your business.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Guest]

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Some will say that because this is not a common occurrence/people are not widely campaigning for this 'right', it is not a relevant/valid comparison. But I think it is a logical extension of gay rights.

Actually, exactly what it isn't is a "logical extension" of gay rights. What it is, exactly, is a fallacy in reasoning, although in this case, it's actually more than a single fallacy. I'm impressed.

Two links for you:

The Fallacy Files

and

Critical Thinking on the Web

But in the end, you're right. If it's between consenting adults, it may be a lot of things, but first and foremost, it is not your business.

rl

When it's getting in my face, to a point where I can no longer escape it, it becomes my business.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[sundevil777 102]

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dat dere is god fearing conservative talk. It's not like your liberal english.

You bother to ridicule me for a few missing words in my post, but can't bother to give us your opinion about the question I ask. Why not let us know where you stand?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[AlexCrowley 0]

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Critical Thinking on the Web

I'm gonna put on my hat, get my whip and play Indiana Jones and the Hunt for Critical Thinking on the Web. Rarer than finest green I daresay.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[sundevil777 102]

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Actually, exactly what it isn't is a "logical extension" of gay rights. What it is, exactly, is a fallacy in reasoning, although in this case, it's actually more than a single fallacy. I'm impressed.

When advocates of gay rights say use the argument that what goes on between two consenting adults in their own bedroom is nobody's business, then extend that to demand marriage rights, then I assert that my comparison applies.

Lots of things are not our business but still are still the subject of debate on this forum.

You say that it is not any of our business, but don't say if you're OK with it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[RhondaLea 4]

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I want what I believe the majority of people want - to be left alone, and not have my culture, religion, beliefs and way of life assaulted on a continuous basis by a noisy little minority that has a voice far out of proportion to its numbers, and as with many things in our society, has reverence and merit that they haven't earned and don't deserve.

Cool. I'm going to make my contribution by not replying to you anymore, and you can do a little self-help (if you believe in self-help, of course) by not reading or posting in this thread.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Guest]

We can agree to disagree. I'm cool with that.

Edit to add - I find it a little disturbing, however, that because I disagree with the militant homosexual agenda, my remarks are either perceived as intolerant (an error) or that there is now a lack of tolerance on the part of others for my remarks, to the point where I'm asked to depart the thread.

Now who's being tolerant?

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[sundevil777 102]

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you can do a little self-help (if you believe in self-help, of course) by not reading or posting in this thread.

Intolerance and oppression on display!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[RhondaLea 4]

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I'm substituting RhondaLee and suddenly feel a great deal less tolerant.

Save the sociopaths!

Y'know, baby, I'm gonna take that whip away from ya and use it where it will do the most good.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[sundevil777 102]

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Actually, exactly what it isn't is a "logical extension" of gay rights. What it is, exactly, is a fallacy in reasoning, although in this case, it's actually more than a single fallacy. I'm impressed.

Although I am not a professional logician, I did paid attention 24 years ago during my logic and reasoning class. I am quite sure that to argue against a position by doing nothing more than asserting that the position is a fallacy, is in itself a fallacy.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[RhondaLea 4]

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Actually, exactly what it isn't is a "logical extension" of gay rights. What it is, exactly, is a fallacy in reasoning, although in this case, it's actually more than a single fallacy. I'm impressed.

Although I am not a professional logician, I did paid attention 24 years ago during my logic and reasoning class. I am quite sure that to argue against a position by doing nothing more than asserting that the position is a fallacy, is in itself a fallacy.

I gave you the links so you could find all the fallacies yourself. I figured it would keep you busy for a couple of months (years, even), at least.



rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[AlexCrowley 0]

On what? whether we should consider ethnic cleansing of the gay community? I'm not thinking thats much of a final solution.

Make them wear pink triangles so we can be assured that any political opinions they hold can be taken into account with their gayness.

I think we should have a gay grading scale.

We can start at 'flaming queer' and finish at 'very definitely straight' and color code everyone. This will be a code you'll need to write on your voting card as its the only way to ensure the protection of OUR WAY OF LIFE.

Of course, we'll be enforcing sphincter examinations to make sure that no one is lying.

Now, I've read a lot from yourself and the other ...... umm i can't think of the word for your position that isnt a personal attack. to simplify.

Ok lets start again.

Two sides on the argument.

Ok. I'll be part of Team Slipperyslope. as in on the way to immorality

you can be Team RigidAHold. as in your hold on a strict morality

So you guys with your RigidAHolds would prefer that IT ISNT IN YOUR FACE!!! or whatever the panic of the moment is. Fair enough.

But Im not sure what the special stuff those rabid homos on the SlipperySlope are asking for.

I realize that being a RigidAHold is something you take seriously, and it must be discomforting to see your way of life, as RigidAHolds, being threatened. Which is tough for us SlipperySlopers to accept because we view the argument very differently.

It's like this:

I believe that everyone is human (even sociopaths) and has certain rights - inalienable ones even. The Slipperyslope lets people love whoever they want. You'll notice that us Slipperslopers never bring up beastiality, perversion, incest, pedophilia in our discussion of peoples rights. You'll also notice that us Slipperyslopers believe in EVERYONES universal right to be human - I realize its a tough concept for the RigidAhold side to understand.

From where the SlipperySlope is sat, we see the RigidAholds and we're confused. You describe a situation which is almost impossible to understand from our 'everyone is human and has the same rights' position. RigidAHold philosophy is obviously very different.

I understand that RigidAholds believe in morality. I understand that RigidAholds feel uncomfortable when faced with gay men. Naturally there's a fear that there will be some damage. We, on the SlipperySlope want to help you loosen up. A LoosenedAHold would feel less threatened by a gay man.

This is something where sitting down as a group and discussing this over beer would be easier. LubedAholds would have no problem with gay men and what you percieve as demands, but are in fact just very natural wants and wishes.

It really becomes a question of seeing a conflict where there isnt one. RigidAholds think its a fight, while the slipperyslope says relax, it really wont hurt as much as you think. Who knows, maybe we can all live together and it'll be something you'll enjoy guilt free.

This would be part #4 of 'ask a stupid question' for those of you collecting the set.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[narcimund 0]

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When it's getting in my face, to a point where I can no longer escape it, it becomes my business.

Oh you guys! I TOLD you not to handcuff markharju and drag him kicking and screaming to Brokeback Mountain then prop his eyelids open with toothpicks until the closing credits!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Guest]

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When it's getting in my face, to a point where I can no longer escape it, it becomes my business.

Oh you guys! I TOLD you not to handcuff markharju and drag him kicking and screaming to Brokeback Mountain then prop his eyelids open with toothpicks until the closing credits!

--and don't forget the eyedrops! hehehe

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[narcimund 0]

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in my face

But a little more seriously, I suspect what "in my face" really means is "as visible as my life is".

In other words, markharju (and many others) feel that everyone is entitled to do things they enjoy, but only markharju (and that other oppressive majority) are entitled to do them outside.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Guest]

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in my face

But a little more seriously, I suspect what "in my face" really means is "as visible as my life is".

In other words, markharju (and many others) feel that everyone is entitled to do things they enjoy, but only markharju (and that other oppressive majority) are entitled to do them outside.

Narci, I'm not sure what you mean. You don't mean screwing in public, do you? That's not sarcasm. I'm serious. What happened to the whole "privacy of the bedroom / behind closed doors" thing? When did that change? Or did I miss something?

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[wmw999 2,452]

Do you expect everyone to hold hands only in their bedrooms? Do you expect everyone to only kiss in their bedrooms? Are you grossed out by seeing a heterosexual couple in a passionate embrace?

Why is a mainstream movie about homosexual love different from a mainstream movie about heterosexual love?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AlexCrowley 0]

there wasnt enough cock in it.

Thats my first guess anyway.

Can I get another if I'm wrong?

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[billvon 2,998]

>The very existence of a commonly understood slang term
>like "breeder" is evidence.

You use the derogatory term "whuffo" to refer to non-skydivers. Are you discriminating against non-skydivers?

>Want first hand experience? I walked into a gay bar with a lesbian
>friend from college, and was pretty much harassed the whole time.

I used to get harassed at a local bar (the Long Island Exchange) all the time because we'd show up as a bunch of single guys, and they really wanted women there. They'd haggle us about the dress code, refuse to serve us after two beers or something, and actually asked us to leave a few times because we weren't spending money.

That's never happened to me at a gay bar. So from my experience straight bars are much more discriminatory than gay bars.

>Most groups shun those not conforming to their behavior pattern,
>gays are not immune.

Nor are skydivers, from that perspective. But I would say that most skydivers do not 'discriminate' against non-skydivers, even though they have derogatory terms for them and see them as 'outsiders.'