ViperPilot 0 #26 December 23, 2005 QuoteOh. I see - but this only applies to non-Americans... No way, it applies to EVERYONE. If an American moves to Germany for several years by choice, but then refuses to learn the language, they're just as lazy as the next bastard and should go back to America. Quote"Oh, I get by with my English just fine" is the most common answer when someone asks about it... What a fuckin cop out. Yeah I like the fact that you can get by with English in many countries; that's fine and dandy for trips and such, but when you move to a country for an extended period, I don't care how much they speak English, take some damn time to learn the language at least half way decent. QuoteOh, and if you don't like it down in Florida, you could always stay away from there, or try to learn some Spanish. I'm not from Florida. But yeah, Florida can be nice here and there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,033 #27 December 23, 2005 >I'm talking about people who choose to go to another country, >and CHOOSE to not learn the language. You are choosing to post on a Canadian system. Shall we require you to know French and English? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #28 December 23, 2005 QuoteIf you live in this country, learn it, love it, live it, or get the fuck out. That is all. I suggest taking a United States history course. And you might want to take a Spanish course at the same time. It'll save some time later when you realize how wrong you are. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #29 December 23, 2005 Well what are some points? I'd like to hear one good, justified point as to why someone who moves to a country for several years cannot take the time to at least half way learn the native language. I don't think there's one justified reason...maybe if the person was mentally handicapped and had a learning disability; I'll accept that, but there's no other good reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #30 December 23, 2005 Obviously English is the "official" language of this site. If it was French, I'd either learn French or not post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #31 December 23, 2005 QuoteWell they're forced to be there, I'm talking about people who choose to go to another country, and CHOOSE to not learn the language. I bet you can concoct excuses that cover ALL SORTS of Americans-in-other-countries situations. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,033 #32 December 23, 2005 >Well what are some points? 1) The great majority of immigrants _do_ learn English. 2) Having a few non-English-speakers in a household keeps people in that family bilingual; that is a good thing overall 3) Having _no_ heritage-language speakers in a family causes rapid loss of that family's ability to speak the heritage language >I'd like to hear one good, justified point as to why someone who > moves to a country for several years cannot take the time to at > least half way learn the native language. Because she is 70 years old, deaf and almost never leaves the house? Because he runs a store that caters to mexican workers who don't speak english either? Because he is about as lazy as most americans who go to foreign countries? Doesn't really matter, because no one is obliged to do what you request of them. It certainly makes _their_ lives easier to learn english. But to demand that they learn it makes about as much sense as demanding they get circumcised because you think they should. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #33 December 23, 2005 Way to not read my post 5 above yours. It's ok to be lazy...isn't that what this thread is all about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #34 December 23, 2005 Quote1) The great majority of immigrants _do_ learn English. 2) Having a few non-English-speakers in a household keeps people in that family bilingual; that is a good thing overall 3) Having _no_ heritage-language speakers in a family causes rapid loss of that family's ability to speak the heritage language 1) Well that's good to know, but growing up in SoCal blows that one out of the water (at least for that area). 2) True, bilingualism is a good skill and should be kept alive. Guess what...people who move to America DON'T need to drop their native language for English, they should become, as you said, BILINGUAL! We agree! 3) Yep, keep the heritage language going, be bilingual and learn your new national language! QuoteBecause she is 70 years old, deaf and almost never leaves the house? That's acceptable, but what % of immigrants come into the country in this state? QuoteBecause he runs a store that caters to mexican workers who don't speak english either? Still a terrible excuse for not at least half learning his new country's language. QuoteBut to demand that they learn it makes about as much sense as demanding they get circumcised because you think they should. Everyone should learn the language of their country, whether native or not, out of respect and to help themselves and others in their community. Yeah I'm not gonna hold a gun to their head, but I damn well will label them lazy for not doing so. Because that's al l it comes down to for 95% of them. RECAP: Bilingualism is great; but does bilingualism not include English Bill? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,033 #35 December 23, 2005 >1) Well that's good to know, but growing up in SoCal blows that >one out of the water (at least for that area). I live in San Diego, which is about as close to the border as you can get - and 99% of the people here speak english. At Perris, Joe Mama is one of the bilingual instructors who can teach AFF in Spanish, and he is not often needed for non-english-speakers (although there are quite a few students more comfortable speaking spanish than english.) >2) True, bilingualism is a good skill and should be kept alive. Research has shown that the best way for that to happen is for there to be a need to speak the heritage language within the family. In most families where english is spoken, the heritage language is not, and is lost within a generation. That's a good reason to have at least one non-english-speaker in a household. >Everyone should learn the language of their country, whether native or not, out of respect . . . I was born here, and I don't see someone speaking english as a matter of respect or not. It is for their convenience. If they can't communicate that they need an egg and not a squash? They're the ones who end up with the squash, not you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #36 December 23, 2005 QuoteWay to not read my post 5 above yours. It's ok to be lazy...isn't that what this thread is all about? Do you have to practice to be so bitter and nasty? I only ask because it comes naturally to some whereas others should be honored for achieving it through hard work. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #37 December 23, 2005 Viper, Have YOU learned the native language of all the all the countries you've been deployed to? How well have you learned their language? Conversationally fluent is extremely difficult. From my travels throughout the world, I gotta say, it's americans who are the least patient with people trying to speak english. OTOH, I've been very impressed with the patience of the Thai's, Koreans, Germans, French (yes, THEM), and the Italians who have all smiled patiently as I fumble with "Hello", "Thank You", "Where's the Bathroom", "Beer?" and "Where is the place that lets people jump from the airplanes?" Hell, I've been deployed to the UK and am still wondering why they call "soccer" "football" -kjarv Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,536 #38 December 23, 2005 QuoteHell, I've been deployed to the UK and am still wondering why they call "soccer" "football" Because you hit the ball with your foot!! Ya don't throw it, ya don't carry hit, ya kick it! Foot meets ball - Football!! It really isn't a difficult concept Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #39 December 23, 2005 Quote Because you hit the ball with your foot!! Ya don't throw it, ya don't carry hit, ya kick it! Foot meets ball - Football!! It really isn't a difficult concept Ballocks! Explain Cricket then Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #40 December 23, 2005 I disagree with the statements of the original post. However, I think it is a very good idea to learn at least a little of a local language when you live there or even if you just travel there. Trying to communicate with locals in their language demonstrates respect. I used to travel a lot to France and often experienced the "arrogance" when trying to talk english with locals and rarely succeeded finding somebody who wanted to talk english (or german which I also speak). I then made the effort of learning som basic french and suddenly I was a) treated much nicer by locals b) people actually used their (limited) knowledge of english to help the communication.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #41 December 23, 2005 Ballocks! - HaHa - He's correct.. <> If you dont know, then there's little point trying Would you explain World Series.... LMFAO (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #42 December 23, 2005 QuoteTrying to communicate with locals in their language demonstrates respect. I used to travel a lot to France and often experienced the "arrogance" when trying to talk english with locals and rarely succeeded finding somebody who wanted to talk english (or german which I also speak). I then made the effort of learning som basic french and suddenly I was a) treated much nicer by locals b) people actually used their (limited) knowledge of english to help the communication. A funny thing i discovered about France: you don't need to speak french - as long as you don't try to speak english either! When i ask somebody there in spanish or russian, they will happily offer an answer in english. If i asked the same people the same question in english, i would only get a blank stare Once you figure this little trick out, France is awesome! bsbd! Yuri. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,536 #43 December 23, 2005 QuoteBallocks! Explain Cricket then We're better at it than Australia. That is all you need to knowDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,070 #44 December 23, 2005 QuoteQuote Because you hit the ball with your foot!! Ya don't throw it, ya don't carry hit, ya kick it! Foot meets ball - Football!! It really isn't a difficult concept Ballocks! Explain Cricket then Where would you like to start, "short square leg" or "silly mid off"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #45 December 24, 2005 QuoteWell they're forced to be there, I'm talking about people who choose to go to another country, and CHOOSE to not learn the language. Sure. The US is kinda special, with there being no official language and all. Now, a nation like Denmark is different. Here we should be able to purge the unwanted elements. Danes should be given certificate of language-mastery. Along with the certificate comes a gun and a mandate to use the fully loaded clip inside it. The test is simple: you walk up to someone and ask "Nu skyder jeg dig i hovedet. Har du noget imod det?" . If the person is somehow undeseriable to you, you may repeat the question five times and hope he or she stumbles on some words. Alternatively, you can pretend you didn't hear it properly or the pronounciation wasn't good enough. I'm gonna put this in my book when I get around to finishing it. Or starting it. It'll be goood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #46 December 24, 2005 Quote> People who move to a country for an extended amount of time and >refuse to learn the local language (at least somewhat decent, doesn't >need to be perfect) should just get the fuck out. I recommend the book "Why Don't They Learn English: Separating Fact from Fallacy in the U.S. Language Debate" by Lucy Tse. You may learn a few things that suprise you. Excellent book. Dr. Tse is a wonderfully articulate author writing about something that's very controversial, and she actually manages to answer the question of "why don't they learn English?". She's a really nice person too... taught at the univeristy where I went to grad school. Funks... I'd be happy to send you my copy of her book... if you promise to actually read it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,070 #47 December 24, 2005 I think bad spelling and poor grammar also should be punishable. They are so disrespectful of the reader and the language.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #48 December 24, 2005 Quote I think that bad spelling and poor grammar also should also be punishable. They are so disrespectful of toward both the reader and the language. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,070 #49 December 24, 2005 QuoteQuote I think that bad spelling and poor grammar also should also be punishable. They are so disrespectful of toward both the reader and the language. Thank you.It's poor style to boldly split "should" and "be" with "also".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #50 December 24, 2005 QuoteQuote I think that bad spelling and poor grammar also should also be punishable. They are so disrespectful of toward both the reader and the language. Just to learn a bit at German Christmas Eve: Is it 'toward' or towards'??? And BTW: I'd have put 'also' in same place like Kallend did But who am I, just a poor non-American Danke. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
