MUNICH

[claneshark 0]

Has anyone here seen this yet? I went to see it last night and thought it was great, albeit somewhat long-winded. Golda Meir's character has a few great lines. "Every civilization finds it necessary to negotiate compromises with its own values."

[micro 0]

A friend of mine and I are going tonight.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[happythoughts 0]

There was another movie about the topic years ago. It is called Sword of Gideon.

It is about the same events and same people.
Worth renting.

A lot of the information in the book Vengeance has been shown to contain a lot of fiction, but the basic idea is correct. The writer just didn't know the "what and how" of the implementation and fabricated a lot.

[TheAnvil 0]

I want to see it. I also want to see Syriana. Anybody seen that?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[micro 0]

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A friend of mine and I are going tonight.

Ok, just back from the flick. It was damn long, but it didn't drag as much as I thought it would. Actually, it didn't really drag at all. It was intense. It was dark. It was very, very well done.

What it most certainly did was demonstrate the total futility of revenge. I left the theatre more convinced than ever of what Ghandi said...

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

I highly recommend the movie. It's a sobering look at the complicated, long-strained relationships b/t the israelis and palestinians in the early '70's. Incredible.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[claneshark 0]

Futility of revenge....wow. Such an appropriate sentiment for this movie, yet it was the furthest thing from my thoughts. I guess we get so caught up in the morality of it all, or lack thereof, and seek some sort of "responsible" party, that it is difficult to see how blatantly pointless all of this violence really is.

[tbrown 26]

I was just reading that Mohammed Daoud, the mastermind of the Munich massacre, is complaining from his rathole in Syria that Spieberg should have consulted HIM about HIS side of the issues. Sure, maybe then we'll understand why it's perfectly understandable to kidnap and slaughter an entire Olympic team ? Never mind that the ancient Greeks suspended whatever wars were going on at the time and guaranteed safe passage to athletes coming and going to the games.

The only "consulting" this alledgedly human piece of shit needs is to ask him why the fuck he's still alive, and would he think a 9mm or a .45 would do a better job on his head.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[micro 0]

interesting isn't it how the jews are saying the movie isn't sympathic enough, or AT ALL, and the palestinians want to be consulted about "their" side of the story. sheesh.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[kallend 2,027]

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interesting isn't it how the jews are saying the movie isn't sympathic enough, or AT ALL, and the palestinians want to be consulted about "their" side of the story. sheesh.

Which suggests that the movie is probably pretty well balanced in its treatment of the issues.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sundevil777 102]

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that it is difficult to see how blatantly pointless all of this violence really is.

Unfortunately, the use of force to achieve political objectives is still common.

Fortunately, we can apply more force than others.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[micro 0]

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interesting isn't it how the jews are saying the movie isn't sympathic enough, or AT ALL, and the palestinians want to be consulted about "their" side of the story. sheesh.

Which suggests that the movie is probably pretty well balanced in its treatment of the issues.

Only being three at the time of the actual events, I can't say so much one way or the other, but IMO, it appeared to be pretty balanced. It was very good.

Have you seen it?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[TheAnvil 0]

What a piece of shit. I agree dude. I vote for the .45

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[sundevil777 102]

Charles Krauthammer's take on the movie:



Spielberg makes case for Palestinian terror

'Munich' contends Israeli cause is morally bankrupt

Charles Krauthammer



If Steven Spielberg had made a fictional movie about the
psychological disintegration of a revenge assassin, that
would have been fine. Instead, he decided to call this
fiction "Munich" and root it in a real historical event: the
1972 massacre by Palestinian terrorists of 11 Israeli
athletes at the Munich Olympics. Once you've done that, you
have an obligation to get the story right.

The only true part of the story is the few minutes spent on
the actual massacre. The rest is invention, as Spielberg
delicately puts it in the opening credits, "inspired by real
events."

By real events? Rubbish. Inspired by Tony Kushner's belief
(he co-wrote the screenplay) that the founding of Israel was
a "historical, moral, political calamity" for the Jewish
people.

Munich Glossed Over

It is an axiom of filmmaking that you can only care about a
character you know. In "Munich," the Israeli athletes are
not only theatrical but historical extras, stick figures.
Spielberg dutifully gives us their names -- Spielberg's List
-- and nothing more: no history, no context, no
relationships, nothing. They are there to die.

The Palestinians who plan the massacre and are hunted down
by Israel are given -- with the concision of the gifted
cinematic craftsman -- texture, humanity, depth, history.
The first Palestinian we meet is the erudite poet giving a
public reading, then acting kindly toward his Italian
shopkeeper -- before he is brutally shot in cold blood by
the Jews.

Then there is the elderly Palestine Liberation Organization
man who dotes on his 7-year-old daughter before being blown
to bits. Not one of these plotters is ever shown plotting
Munich or any other atrocity for that matter.

But the most shocking Israeli brutality involves the Dutch
prostitute -- apolitical, beautiful, pathetic -- shot to
death, naked, of course, by the now half-crazed Israelis
settling private business. The Israeli way, I suppose.

Even more egregious than the manipulation by character is
the propaganda by dialogue. The Palestinian case is made
forthrightly: The Jews stole our land and we're going to
kill any Israeli we can to get it back.

Those who are supposedly making the Israeli case say ... the
same thing. The hero's mother, the pitiless committed
Zionist, says: We needed the refuge. We seized it. Whatever
it takes to secure it. Then she ticks off members of their
family lost in the Holocaust.

Director plays on Holocaust

Spielberg makes the Holocaust the engine of Zionism and its
justification. Which, of course, is the Palestinian
narrative. Indeed, it is the classic narrative for
anti-Zionists, most recently the president of Iran, who says
Israel should be wiped off the map. And why not? If Israel
is nothing more than Europe's guilt trip for the Holocaust,
why should Muslims have to suffer a Jewish state in their
midst?

It takes a Hollywood ignoramus to give flesh to the argument
of a radical anti-Semitic Iranian. Jewish history did not
begin with Kristallnacht. The first Zionist Congress
occurred in 1897. The Jews fought for and received
recognition for the right to establish a "Jewish national
home in Palestine" from Britain in 1917 and from the League
of Nations in 1922, two decades before the Holocaust.

Ancient claim to homeland

But the Jewish claim is far more ancient. Israel was their
ancestral home, site of the first two Jewish commonwealths
for a thousand years -- long before Arabs, long before
Islam, long before the Holocaust.

The Roman destructions of 70 A.D and 135 A.D. extinguished
Jewish independence but never the Jewish claim and vow to
return to their home. The Jews' miraculous return 2,000
years later was tragic because others had settled in the
land and had a legitimate competing claim. Which is why the
Jews have for three generations offered to partition the
house. The Arab response in every generation has been
rejection, war and terror.

And Munich. Munich, the massacre, had only modest success in
launching the Palestinian cause with the blood of 11 Jews.
"Munich," the movie, has now made that success complete 33
years later. "Munich" now enjoys high cinematic production
values and the imprimatur of Steven Spielberg, no less,
carrying the original terrorists' intended message to every
theater in the world.

This is hardly surprising, considering that "Munich's" case
for the moral bankruptcy of the Israeli cause -- not just
the campaign to assassinate Munich's planners but the entire
enterprise of Israel itself -- is so thorough that the movie
concludes with the lead Mossad assassin, seared by his
experience, abandoning Israel forever. Where does the hero
resettle? In the only true home for the Jew of conscience,
sensitivity and authenticity: Brooklyn.

Charles Krauthammer writes for the Washington Post. His
column is distributed by the Washington Post Writers Group,
1150 15th NW, Washington, DC 20071.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kallend 2,027]

Charles Krauthammer is so far to the right as to be out of sight.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Darius11 12]

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It is an axiom of filmmaking that you can only care about a
character you know. In "Munich," the Israeli athletes are
not only theatrical but historical extras, stick figures.

Yea I have a little bit of a feeling this guy might be just be a bit biased.

I wish the Israelis would talk about the children they have killed by “mistake” and talk about the potential of every single inocent life they have taken and how it effected the family to lose a child, wife, husband, EC.…………..Of course there is not enough time in the world for that is there?


If you kill the inocent people of others with no remorse how and why would you expect sympathy for the murder of your inocent people?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gravitymaster 0]

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If you kill the inocent people of others with no remorse how and why would you expect sympathy for the murder of your inocent people?

Is this question for the Palestinians?

[Darius11 12]

It’s a question for the ones who start the killing in this case that would be the Israelis.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gravitymaster 0]

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It’s a question for the ones who start the killing in this case that would be the Israelis.

I see. "They" started it. Seems like a pretty immature attitude doesn't it? How would you react if you had two children who justified beating each other over the head with......but..but..he hit me first.

[Darius11 12]

I woukld grap the one who DID start it and punish him/her.

Believe it or not it does matter who started it. Many countries including us have used the THEY STARTED IT reason for starting wars and we feel justified about it as well.

Now if the world is going to change great but so far it hasn’t we just call the people we don’t agree with or ones that have no economical value wrong.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I woukld grap the one who DID start it and punish him/her.

Speaking metaphorically here, who should do the grabbing? What if you didn't see who started it? Whose word would you take? If it was your son and a neighbors son, would you automatically side with your son?

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Believe it or not it does matter who started it. Many countries including us have used the THEY STARTED IT reason for starting wars and we feel justified about it as well.

I don't think it's "they started it." I think it's more of a need to defend against further attacks.

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Now if the world is going to change great but so far it hasn’t we just call the people we don’t agree with or ones that have no economical value wrong.

I see the Israelis taking the lead to better relations and the Palestinians continuing with no real commitment.

[likearock 2]

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I woukld grap the one who DID start it and punish him/her.

Believe it or not it does matter who started it. Many countries including us have used the THEY STARTED IT reason for starting wars and we feel justified about it as well.

Now if the world is going to change great but so far it hasn’t we just call the people we don’t agree with or ones that have no economical value wrong.

The struggle between Jews and Muslims has been going on for thousands of years in the Middle East. Exactly how far back do you want to go to determine "who started it"?

[ViperPilot 0]

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Exactly how far back do you want to go to determine "who started it"?

Good point.

If we only look at the isolated case of Munich, then it was obviously the Palestenians who started it. But if you want to look at the whole relationship, then it's exactly like likearock said.

[Darius11 12]

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Speaking metaphorically here, who should do the grabbing? What if you didn't see who started it? Whose word would you take? If it was your son and a neighbors son, would you automatically side with your son?

Well in the case of Israeli and Palestinian finding out who invaded who first, or who killed a whole bunch of Muslims at there place of worship might be a good start

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I don't think it's "they started it." I think it's more of a need to defend against further attacks.

Well that’s is about who started it isn’t it.

When you get attacked it is usually blamed on the first aggressor when you retaliate you are defending your self. So I think it is about who started it because if no one would have started it there would be no reason to go to war.

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I see the Israelis taking the lead to better relations and the Palestinians continuing with no real commitment.

I think it’s hard to have your home taken from you then have the takers give you back the basement and expect your appraisal.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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I woukld grap the one who DID start it and punish him/her.

Believe it or not it does matter who started it. Many countries including us have used the THEY STARTED IT reason for starting wars and we feel justified about it as well.

Now if the world is going to change great but so far it hasn’t we just call the people we don’t agree with or ones that have no economical value wrong.

The struggle between Jews and Muslims has been going on for thousands of years in the Middle East. Exactly how far back do you want to go to determine "who started it"?

I have mention this many times before. To me it has nothing to do with Jews or Muslims it has to do with a land dispute. There are many Palestinians who are Christians.

For Palestine we only need to go back what is it 51 or so years I think.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

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Charles Krauthammer's take on the movie:

The only true part of the story is the few minutes spent on
the actual massacre...

But the most shocking Israeli brutality involves the Dutch
prostitute -- apolitical, beautiful, pathetic -- shot to
death, naked, of course, by the now half-crazed Israelis
settling private business.

I have to wonder if he even saw the darn movie.

The massacre of the athletes wasn't shown just in the first few minutes of the movie, but done in flashbacks throughout.

And the prostitute was an assassin working for the enemy that killed one of the Israeli men after luring him into bed for sex. She got what she deserved when they shot her to death in retaliation. And the Israelis weren't "half crazed" when they did it - they were very calm and deliberate, and even hesitant.