DNA database - Big Brother in the UK

[shropshire 0]

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DNA profiles of 24,000 juveniles who have never been cautioned, charged or convicted of an offence are stored on the UK database, an MP has revealed. clicky

I've just seen this on the news and heard someone say something along the lines that .. ' If you've done nothing wrong, then you've got nothing to worry about...'

Except for me that's exactly what we should be worried about - attitudes like that... (Oh so similar to 'Your either with us or against us' - crap).


Thoughts......


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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Skyrad 0]

With 3000 DNA matches a month I think its not a bad thing. Already all our electronic communication (including phone conversations) is filtered. Oyster cards and CCTV can monitor our journeys. The government wants to bring in vechical survellance for the entire population. If this can catch the little shits that are ruining this once great country then good. Pity we don't birtch the scum. If you haven't committed a crime you have nothing to fear.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[crozby 0]

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If you haven't committed a crime you have nothing to fear.

Yeah, right.

Belmarsh?

Gitmo?

We're talking the real world here, not some fantasy made-up place where the people in charge actually give a heartfelt shit about the people they rule.

[kbordson 8]

The spirit of that program does sound suspicious, but it's hard to know what the true goals of the database were/are.

You could also look at the advantanges of such a database.

Not just the ability to convict the guilty based on DNA, but also better resources to track and find victims. Giving investigation groups the ability to determine identity if they have some DNA at a crime scene but no body.... .

The military here has DNA samples of all personnell.

[Samurai136 0]

Giving investigation groups the ability to determine identity if they have some DNA at a crime scene but no body.... .

Huh? Not certain I'm following the benefit here. Depending on the scene, Information from DNA would only generate a list of people who probably have no association to the actual crime.

Kind of like a tipster hotline generating more false leads than useful information.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[shropshire 0]

I agree, those sort of comments really grip my shit too

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

But maybe... just maybe it would lead to lazy policing.... no need to do any real investigating (customer facing) - just sit in an office post whoring and eating doughnuts untill the computer spits out the name and location (because of the GPS implant) of a victim/suspect and the associated warrant/sentence. .... they could even phone them up and get them to turn them selves in to the nearewst gaol........ welcome to the brave new world.


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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,070]

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The spirit of that program does sound suspicious, but it's hard to know what the true goals of the database were/are.

You could also look at the advantanges of such a database.

Not just the ability to convict the guilty based on DNA, but also better resources to track and find victims. Giving investigation groups the ability to determine identity if they have some DNA at a crime scene but no body.... .

The military here has DNA samples of all personnell.

It doesn't matter what the stated goals are. It's the potential for abuse under an authoritarian government that's the problem.

Don't ANY of you young people know what happened in the 1930s in Germany?

Governments simply cannot be trusted with information like this.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

Any time anyone (especially in government) says something like..
(a) it's for your own good..
(b) to help you....
(c) for your safety and security
(d) etc....

vote for the other guy....

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,070]

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Any time anyone (especially in government) says something like..
(a) it's for your own good..
(b) to help you....
(c) for your safety and security
(d) etc....

vote for the other guy....

.

Absobloodylutely.

NEVER trust any government to have your best interests at heart. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

I agree that we have problems in this country but I cannt agree with the government (and all those that they sell the information to ... oh it will happen) having my DNA on file...
What if they find a lazy gene or that that I pre-disposed to some illness that my insurance company doesn't like or anything else that could effect my chances of getting a job (or a passport or as Mr Kallend hinted .... makes me wear a big Yellow Star!!!).... Very Slippery slope we're on peeps......


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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Newbie 0]

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I agree that we have problems in this country but I cannt agree with the government (and all those that they sell the information to ... oh it will happen) having my DNA on file...
What if they find a lazy gene or that that I pre-disposed to some illness that my insurance company doesn't like or anything else that could effect my chances of getting a job (or a passport or as Mr Kallend hinted .... makes me wear a big Yellow Star!!!).... Very Slippery slope we're on peeps......


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Oh come on, how can you draw a parallel between the UK and what went on in Nazi Germany under Hitler. I think that's blowing this whole thing WAY out of context. Also you have nothing to fear, as the article states this info is not publically available so work/insurance issues are nullified.

Let me tell you what you may not know - this country is being destroyed from within by CHILDREN. We have kids with nothing to do, dropping out at a higher rate than ever before, killing each other over nothing, disaffected and disillusioned. I work with inner London school children, i see it all the time and it's not just something going on in the cities either.

This is a CRIME FIGHTING tool - and i quote:

"Of the three million samples held at present, 139,463 are from people never charged or cautioned.

The Home Office says the number of samples stored will rise to 4.25 million by 2008.

There are also samples from more than 15,000 volunteers, including victims of crime, who responded to police appeals.

However, the number of crimes solved through DNA technology has quadrupled over the past five years.

Police can now track down offenders by matching samples with other family members who may be on the database.
"
If they can utilise DNA technology to implicate and catch the offenders, instead of allowing them to go unpunished, that is fantastic and i hope this gets rolled out further. And as for lazy policing, you should look into what it takes to first of all collect, then analyze dna found at a crime scene - to capture and process that sort of evidence is far more time consuming that you might like to believe.

Bring it on - if parents won't police their kids, let the police do it.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Sen.Blutarsky 0]

A similar thing is happening here in the states already. Without open debate or significant press coverage, state drivers licensing authorities have been selling their records in bulk to commercial enterprises over a period of years.

For a relatively low fee today you can often get your hands on a person’s blood type, willingness to donate organs, height, weight, eye color, drink driving record and other personal-identifying information such as where they currently live and who to notify in the event of accidents -- through the Internet.

I guess tax revenues simply aren’t enough to feed the perpetual hunger of government for ever greater budgets and power. Just another part of daily living in the land of the free ...


Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners!

[shropshire 0]

It's the thin end of the wedge... IMHO

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Let me tell you what you may not know - this country is being destroyed from within by CHILDREN. We have kids with nothing to do, dropping out at a higher rate than ever before, killing each other over nothing, disaffected and disillusioned. I work with inner London school children, i see it all the time and it's not just something going on in the cities either.

Blaming the poor kiddies is such a cop out... try blaming the parents!

Agh poor likkle kidies today have nothing to do -- BOLLOCKS they have oh sooo much more now than anyone in the past and I dont care how far you go back.

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Also you have nothing to fear, as the article states this info is not publically available so work/insurance issues are nullified

- Yeah Right.... I dont trust those fuckers one little bit..... No on-line database is secure.. and someone WILL sell [or loose] the data


P.S please dont pick on me... it's me burfday.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Skyrad 0]

Grip your shit? How revolting

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 2,070]

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I agree that we have problems in this country but I cannt agree with the government (and all those that they sell the information to ... oh it will happen) having my DNA on file...
What if they find a lazy gene or that that I pre-disposed to some illness that my insurance company doesn't like or anything else that could effect my chances of getting a job (or a passport or as Mr Kallend hinted .... makes me wear a big Yellow Star!!!).... Very Slippery slope we're on peeps......


.

Oh come on, how can you draw a parallel between the UK and what went on in Nazi Germany under Hitler. I think that's blowing this whole thing WAY out of context. Also you have nothing to fear, as the article states this info is not publically available so work/insurance issues are nullified.

.

Nazi Germany became a totalitarian state little by little, with the people cheering on practically every step of the way as they willingly gave up their freedoms.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

One cold night, as an Arab sat in his tent, a camel gently thrust his nose under the flap and looked in. "Master," he said, "let me put my nose in your tent. It's cold and stormy out here." "By all means," said the Arab, "and welcome" as he turned over and went to sleep.

A little later the Arab awoke to find that the camel had not only put his nose in the tent but his head and neck also. The camel, who had been turning his head from side to side, said, "I will take but little more room if I place my forelegs within the tent. It is difficult standing out here." "Yes, you may put your forelegs within," said the Arab, moving a little to make room, for the tent was small.

Finally, the camel said, "May I not stand wholly inside? I keep the tent open by standing as I do." "Yes, yes," said the Arab. "Come wholly inside. Perhaps it will be better for both of us." So the camel crowded in. The Arab with difficulty in the crowded quarters again went to sleep. When he woke up the next time, he was outside in the cold and the camel had the tent to himself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kbordson 8]

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P.S please dont pick on me... it's me burfday.

Happy B-day.... but don't spit when you blow out the candles. Cuz then they could look at the DNA

(kidding)

Karen

[shropshire 0]

- F.Y.I it was a chocy cake too

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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DNA profiles of 24,000 juveniles who have never been cautioned, charged or convicted of an offence are stored on the UK database, an MP has revealed. clicky

I've just seen this on the news and heard someone say something along the lines that .. ' If you've done nothing wrong, then you've got nothing to worry about...'

Except for me that's exactly what we should be worried about - attitudes like that... (Oh so similar to 'Your either with us or against us' - crap).


Thoughts......

That's exactly the type of moronic attitude that is being carefully cultivated, and is flourishing -- particularly in U.K., it seems, where people are told that it's GOOD to be under constant surveillance by the authorities, GOOD to be watched by a suspicious government, GOOD to be regarded as a criminal-waiting-for-an-opportunity.

Your country is reaping what it's been sowing these long years. It's been disgusting us across the pond for a while now. Lie back and take it. It's the future you've all been agreeing to build.

Every fucking time the argument has been made that government has the solution to your country's problems, and that rights have to be curtailed for safety's sake, it's been met with cheering in your society.

At least in America, there is a core of people who say, "No fuckin' way!" and try to stand up against this kind of shit.

Where's the resistance in U.K.? Who's gonna have the balls to tell the government that the people want their liberty back?


-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Skyrad 0]

You've got to be kidding me! Look at the erosion of civil liberties since 9/11.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[crozby 0]

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Your country is reaping what it's been sowing these long years. It's been disgusting us across the pond for a while now. Lie back and take it. It's the future you've all been agreeing to build.

Jeffrey, you sound like a muslim fundamentalist.

[Skyrad 0]

I've been giving it some real thought, and I've changed my mind. I don't think it is acceptable. I saw a young french guy on tv this morning who was stopped three times in one month because he looked like a Arab. The police searched his home and took finger prints, palm prints and DNA which they will keep on record. He was charged with noting and not even cautioned. Thats not acceptable and wide open for abuse. I also am pissed off that the US now fingerprints UK citizens entering the US. One reason I have not been to the US in a couple of years. I'd rather spend my money where I'm welcomed as a visitor rather than a suspect.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[JohnRich 4]

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Jeffrey, you sound like a muslim freedom fundamentalist.

There, I fixed that for you.

[shropshire 0]

Hi

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He was charged with noting ..

You've got to watch out for people taking notes Could be an undercover journalist and they really should be watched.... (couldn't, but should have resisted - sorry).

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I also am pissed off that the US now fingerprints UK citizens entering the US. One reason I have not been to the US in a couple of years. I'd rather spend my money where I'm welcomed as a visitor rather than a suspect.

- Yeap - that's stopped me going over the pond too...... kind of counters Jeff's rant above...

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Scoop 0]

If someone has been arrested for an offence and been processed. ie fingerprints, DNA taken etc then they probably have been done so for a good reason.

However the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS aka Criminal Protection Service) charging standards are very high. They require lots of evidence to charge someone.

A funny story for you...

There was once a big fight in a pub and a male was arrested for affray. CPS threw the job out saying it wasnt affray it was mearly a 'disturbance in a public place' err Thats what affray is you idiots.

99% of people brought into custody are because they are scumbags that enjoy robbing your houses and attacking you for no reason.

I couldnt give a shit if my DNA was on file, my fingerprints already are. But I dont go commiting burglary, asasaulting people, commiting rape or murder either.

As someone else stated I think DNA doesnt give you an exact match it only gives you possibilities. This could at least narrow down the suspects and couldnt be used on its own to secure a conviction but would provide a starting point for investigation. I fail to see how it can be abused.

I, as you can probably tell, am 100% behind a national DNA database and ID cards (but thats a different debate)

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