DNA database - Big Brother in the UK

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"what can you, I, or anyone we know actually DO to prevent our government from doing whatever the fuck it wants to -- no matter which asshole party is running it?"

Umm, those are your words, Jeffers.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[shropshire 0]

Nice post mate... but it doesn't sway me.

ID cards will, IMHO, solve nowt and I dont want people asking for my 'papers'........ still on that slippery slope......

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[JohnRich 4]

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DNA... I fail to see how it can be abused.

Famous last words.

It takes humans to collect, process and analyse DNA evidence. Therefore, it can and will be abused, either through negligence or intention.

Just search the news for crime lab scandals here in the U.S. There are people who ignore evidence that goes against the way the prosecuters want it, others who create evidence to support foregone conclusions, those who mishandle it, corrupt it, and so on.

It's not a question of "will" it be abused, but rather "how often" and "how bad".

There are far too many people enamored with the infallability of DNA evidence. All new technologies start out this way. And then decades later, we find out that things aren't nearly as great as everyone has been claiming.

[shropshire 0]

You're right John and also (as I wrote earlier) the information will be passed to insurance companies and employers.... it's just a mater of time.

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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You've got to be kidding me! Look at the erosion of civil liberties since 9/11.

Yes, look at it.
Very few Americans are CHEERING the notion of being put under surveillance by the government, and losing individual liberty.

I get the sense that Britons CHEER the notion of being under surveillance "for the good of society." You have a suspicious government that does not differentiate between those who should be watched, and those who have not been doing anything suspicious and don't deserve to be monitored as though they are criminals. Yes, ours may be starting to function that way, but we have an overall DISapproval of such practices, whereas Brits seem to be fine with it.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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It doesn't matter what the stated goals are. It's the potential for abuse under an authoritarian government that's the problem.

Same argument we make against the idea of having the government render us gun-less.

They STATE that it's to "make society safe from gun violence." The potential for an unarmed populace to fall under the bootheel of an authoritarian government has been demonstrated in blood-drenched fact over and over across the globe, and still "gun control" has its cheering squad.

"Those who support the idea of a police state envision themselves running it, not living under it."

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Don't ANY of you young people know what happened in the 1930s in Germany?

Yeah. They disarmed the Jews, and then they took them, unarmed and helpless, off to be exterminated.

But not before working them until they were emaciated and half-dead already.

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Governments simply cannot be trusted with information like this.

It took a while, but now you're catching on...


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I also am pissed off that the US now fingerprints UK citizens entering the US. One reason I have not been to the US in a couple of years. I'd rather spend my money where I'm welcomed as a visitor rather than a suspect.

I'm also pissed off that the U.K. prohibits people from carrying ordinary lock-blade pocket knives on one's person under the guise that it promotes public safety and crime control. I carry a knife for its utility, and will not be made to feel like I'm a danger to others just because I do so.

I'd rather spend my money where they don't treat me as a suspect, and disarm me as though I'm a psychopath.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Hi

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He was charged with noting ..

You've got to watch out for people taking notes Could be an undercover journalist and they really should be watched.... (couldn't, but should have resisted - sorry).

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I also am pissed off that the US now fingerprints UK citizens entering the US. One reason I have not been to the US in a couple of years. I'd rather spend my money where I'm welcomed as a visitor rather than a suspect.

- Yeap - that's stopped me going over the pond too...... kind of counters Jeff's rant above...

You don't have a right to come to the U.S., it's a privilege to be let in -- just as your country can assert if I wanted to go there. So you can opt not to come if you don't want to be bothered by the rules that apply to your visiting.

I have seen many of the same people here gripe about this "intrusion" (the fingerprinting of visa recipients) but support the idea that, "You don't HAVE to do if you don't like the rules that apply." It's been said about working at places that drug test. It's been said about working or shopping at places that won't let you carry a gun. Suddenly when it applies to YOU, you don't like it?

Double serving of double-standard on your plate, there.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Dolph 0]

Welcome to DNAInfo.com.

Enter nickname: Scoop
Other criteria: Skydiving, dropzone, DNA
Enter area of interest: medical

1 Match found. Details:

32% chance of heart problems
19% chance of depression
17% chance of alcoholism
87% chance, dependency personality
99% authoritarianism

Select your option:
Fire individual
Hire individual
Recommend indvidual for RFGP (Removal From Gene Pool)

This person currently has 1123 votes for RFGP and has had his PoP (Priviledge of Procreation) withdrawn due to genetic deficiencies.

Search again? Yes/No

(c) DolphWarez 2007
Licensed to the British Government

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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32% chance of heart problems
19% chance of depression
17% chance of alcoholism
87% chance, dependency personality
99% authoritarianism

Well, hell yeah, anyone with a 99% likelihood of being authoritarian should be removed from the gene pool, and I don't give a shit about whether he might be depressed or alcoholic.

Funny (in a sick way) post, though.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Scoop 0]

Quote

Welcome to DNAInfo.com.

Enter nickname: Scoop
Other criteria: Skydiving, dropzone, DNA
Enter area of interest: medical

1 Match found. Details:

32% chance of heart problems
19% chance of depression
17% chance of alcoholism
87% chance, dependency personality
99% authoritarianism

Select your option:
Fire individual
Hire individual
Recommend indvidual for RFGP (Removal From Gene Pool)

This person currently has 1123 votes for RFGP and has had his PoP (Priviledge of Procreation) withdrawn due to genetic deficiencies.

Search again? Yes/No

(c) DolphWarez 2007
Licensed to the British Government

Hehe, thats actually very funny!

[Scoop 0]

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Well, hell yeah, anyone with a 99% likelihood of being authoritarian should be removed from the gene pool, and I don't give a shit about whether he might be depressed or alcoholic.

Funny (in a sick way) post, though.

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For the record, no depression or alcholism (sp?) but in my police role I was promoted last night! You probably already know but I am Special Constable, which in the UK is a voluntary officer. ('that explains alot' I hear you cry) I'm now acting Section Officer, which in my role is kinda like a Sergeant so I look after 8 or so of my officers and get a stripe on my shoulder . Thank fuck you dont live in the UK huh?!

[crozby 0]

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I get the sense that Britons CHEER the notion of being under surveillance "for the good of society." You have a suspicious government that does not differentiate between those who should be watched, and those who have not been doing anything suspicious and don't deserve to be monitored as though they are criminals.

Not sure exactly what you are referring to here, but if its CCTV cameras then, yes, those things are popular in many locations (buses, trains, shopping centres) because they deter crime and they help bring criminals to justice.

I think one can be against the use of DNA testing and for the use of CCTV cameras. I am.

[britboynz 0]

The Big Brother state is already happening - Prescott plans to use a database of satellite photos of every dwelling in the UK to calculate council tax. Add a small extension, or a new shrubbery and you'll be taxed on it:

Story here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1965307,00.html

When you also think about the govts ID card scheme, this DNA database (that will, no doubt over time, cover the whole population), the Police Automatic Number Plate Recognition system that was introduced VERY quietly and future developments such as facial recognition software linked to CCTV cameras, then we will most definitely be living in a big brother society where every move you make could be tracked, monitored, taxed from the day you are born to the day you die.

I am soo glad I moved to New Zealand!

[Dolph 0]

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For the record, no depression or alcholism (sp?) but in my police role I was promoted last night! You probably already know but I am Special Constable, which in the UK is a voluntary officer. ('that explains alot' I hear you cry) I'm now acting Section Officer, which in my role is kinda like a Sergeant so I look after 8 or so of my officers and get a stripe on my shoulder . Thank fuck you dont live in the UK huh?!

My software doesn't lie! Well, it won't when I get about do make it.

But doesn't it scare you a bit to have such options available to people that do not have your best interest at heart?

If someone would pay me to make such a system, I'd do so. Only way to be sure there'll be a back door :D

[kallend 2,070]

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Quote

You've got to be kidding me! Look at the erosion of civil liberties since 9/11.

Yes, look at it.
Very few Americans are CHEERING the notion of being put under surveillance by the government, and losing individual liberty.

You reckon? I've read plenty of Americans right here on this forum who seem to be cheering on the loss of rights as long as they perceive that they aren't personally affected (they are affected of course)..

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Scoop 0]

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But doesn't it scare you a bit to have such options available to people that do not have your best interest at heart?

It doesnt scare me now, but maybe in 20 years when they have found out even more and can extract useful information from DNA, at the moment, I couldnt give a damn. If it was the norm no-one would know any different anyway. Whilst you might have one generation of whiny cry babies, the rest wouldnt know any different. I think it'll happen globally. Its just a matter of when.

[kallend 2,070]

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Well, hell yeah, anyone with a 99% likelihood of being authoritarian should be removed from the gene pool, and I don't give a shit about whether he might be depressed or alcoholic.

Funny (in a sick way) post, though.

-

For the record, no depression or alcholism (sp?) but in my police role I was promoted last night! You probably already know but I am Special Constable, which in the UK is a voluntary officer. ('that explains alot' I hear you cry) I'm now acting Section Officer, which in my role is kinda like a Sergeant so I look after 8 or so of my officers and get a stripe on my shoulder . Thank fuck you dont live in the UK huh?!

So you don't even have the excuse that you do it for pay. You just like being authoritarian FOR FUN!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Scoop 0]

You got it Actually there is something satisfying about catching people in the act and making my area a better place to live ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

I tried asking offenders politely to kindly refrain from punching and robbing people but, surprisingly, it doesnt work. You have to be a little bit 'authoritarian'

[billvon 3,033]

>Very few Americans are CHEERING the notion of being put
>under surveillance by the government, and losing individual liberty.

You haven't listened to FOX lately, have you? Many conservatives are indeed supporting the loss of individual liberties, primarily because they want to be seen as supporting Bush and being 'tough on terra.'

Trent Lott recently said "I want my security first. I’ll deal with all the details after that." Which is odd considering that the oath he swore when he entered office includes:

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic . . ."

Apparently that has now been amended to "unless I feel insecure."

[Dolph 0]

Don't underestimate the power of civil disobedience.

If you were a policeman in Denmark and you tried to get a DNA sample from me without any cause, I'd have little choice but to fight you about it.

The government would have to do it by stealth (which is easy enough).

But there are consequences for the government. Many consider the government omnipotent and it does have lots of powers and lots of lackeys to carry out its will, for good and bad.

Any society consists of a number of individuals who, once joined against a common foe, can be a formidable enemy to the state. Rebellions have happened before and will happen again. Our current governments are trying to erode our rights little by little rather than big steps at a time.

Sooner or later people are gonna say "dude, WTF?".

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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For the record, no depression or alcholism (sp?) but in my police role I was promoted last night! You probably already know but I am Special Constable, which in the UK is a voluntary officer. ('that explains alot' I hear you cry) I'm now acting Section Officer, which in my role is kinda like a Sergeant so I look after 8 or so of my officers and get a stripe on my shoulder . Thank fuck you dont live in the UK huh?!

Why? You're not armed. You're under orders to run away if someone's armed. Why the fuck should I be scared of you?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Not sure exactly what you are referring to here, but if its CCTV cameras then, yes, those things are popular in many locations (buses, trains, shopping centres) because they deter crime and they help bring criminals to justice.

I think one can be against the use of DNA testing and for the use of CCTV cameras. I am.

So you're against Big Brother in one sense... and for Big Brother in another sense.


Those cameras don't deter crime -- they relocate it. To where there aren't cameras.

And Britain's crime rate has increased to the point where a person is more likely to be a crime victim there than in the U.S. How is it, again, that those cameras have caused crime to decrease? Is it actually just a slowing of the increase that would have been occurring that you mean?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

The Big Brother state is already happening - Prescott plans to use a database of satellite photos of every dwelling in the UK to calculate council tax. Add a small extension, or a new shrubbery and you'll be taxed on it:

Story here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1965307,00.html

When you also think about the govts ID card scheme, this DNA database (that will, no doubt over time, cover the whole population), the Police Automatic Number Plate Recognition system that was introduced VERY quietly and future developments such as facial recognition software linked to CCTV cameras, then we will most definitely be living in a big brother society where every move you make could be tracked, monitored, taxed from the day you are born to the day you die.

I am soo glad I moved to New Zealand!

This is straight from an expatriate BRITON, everyone. Take note. He mentioned shit that the rest of us didn't even know was going on. Hey, I have an idea, let's ignore it and talk only about how intrusive the U.S. GOVERNMENT has been lately... and mention nothing of the British government, which has us beat by a few thousand miles...

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Scoop 0]

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Why? You're not armed. You're under orders to run away if someone's armed. Why the fuck should I be scared of you?

So would you pull a gun on a police officer then? I think your attitude about things stinks. You are so arrogant that you think your goverment would actually give a fuck what you are up to. Sorry to burst your bubble but your nobody.

For your information ANPR is a brilliant way of catching criminals. THe number plate gets checked automatically via the Police National Computer (PNC) and cross referenced to see if the vehicle has insurance, tax etc

In this country you can only buy tax with a valid insurance certificate. So if someone hasnt got one 9 times out of ten they arent insured. But its probably too invasive of us to take out uninsured drivers. We should leave them alone.

Also believe it or not, stolen vehicles are used in crime.

Speed cameras: Please.... dont fucking speed through them.

CCTV.. well, I think your trying to build some sort of argument of a big brother state when their isnt really anything to worry about. THe DNA maybe, but the other things. Get a life. If you dont like it, no doubt its coming your way soon too. I suggest you drag your ass up to the mountains, arm yourself to the teeth, put a tin foil hat on and live life as a reclusive paranoid loser